GM Doug Whaley has been fired

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

It's been a tough week for the front office apologists, let's let them have their thread.

Fair enough. I didn't really think about that. I guess they need a safe haven to discuss their feelings, and lament their lost love.

[Alphadawg7]

 

Maybe our defensive first time head coach and GM should have considered why his mentor, QB magician Andy Reid wanted to trade 1st round picks and a 3rd for him. Sometimes the smartest thing to do is reassess a situation when someone that is an expert has a different read.

 

You have no idea if Reid wanted Mahomes or not as his first choice. You continue to make a LOT of assumptions.

 

1. He very well could have wanted Mahomes, but it could also have been the GM and FO that aggressively wanted him and the HC on a SB contending roster would have preferred to take an impact player that will help them make the SB this year rather than a QB who won't see the field for at least a year, if not multiple years.

 

2. And lets say Reid did want Mahomes...who really cares? It means nothing...Reid has a FALSE mythological stigma around here that he is some kind of QB guru yet he has no track record to support it. When the Eagles took McNabb, he was the absolute no brainer choice for them, a top QB prospect and best on board when they were fortunate to pick, and clear guy they were going to take. It didn't take any magical deduction, and besides it was the GM who drafted him, not Reid. And just because that top prospect panned out doesn't by default make Reid a guru.

 

3. What has he done with QBs since? Nothing. None of the other guys have been much of anything. And his current QB, Alex Smith had his career resurrected by Jim Harbaugh and under Reid he went on to have one of the most notoriously dubious seasons in modern day NFL going 594 straight days (Spanning 2 seasons) without throwing a single TD to a WR despite having a big end zone target in Bowe at the time on the team.

 

Yet you keep making these massive proclamations about Mahomes all because of Andy Reid...yet you don't know his input on it, nor does it really matter because you also grossly over exaggerate Reid's guru status in regards to QB's. And don't get me wrong, I like Andy Reid, but you don't get to annoit him to some QB whisperer just to further sell your demigod like love affair with Mahomes you have rammed all down our throats at every chance you have gotten the last few months.

 

I would prefer our HC to draft based on what he thinks best, not what a non SB wining HC thinks just because his GM 20 years ago drafted Donovan McNabb.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[Dr. Who]

These teams know the failure rate of picking a QB high. What fans (still) underestimate is the value of a QB. You aren't winning a Superbowl without one in this era. No stat better illustrates that than this one -- 13 of the last 14 QBs representing the AFC in the big game were named Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger. Coaches and GM's know their jobs are on the line without one. Owners know that the $160M+ player payroll they are funding isn't ultimately going anywhere. Your ceiling becomes "playoff pretender," and you have to sell that to the fans every year. The "anything can happen in the playoffs" mantra is nothing more than "all you need is a dollar and a dream" nonsense, and I think most fans realize that.

 

If there's a guy there in the top 10 that has a ~25% chance of becoming your guy under center for the next decade, you pull the trigger.

I'd like a bit more than 1 out of 4 probability, but I agree with your basic point.

[dave mcbride]

 

You have no idea if Reid wanted Mahomes or not as his first choice. You continue to make a LOT of assumptions.

 

1. He very well could have wanted Mahomes, but it could also have been the GM and FO that aggressively wanted him and the HC on a SB contending roster would have preferred to take an impact player that will help them make the SB this year rather than a QB who won't see the field for at least a year, if not multiple years.

 

2. And lets say Reid did want Mahomes...who really cares? It means nothing...Reid has a FALSE mythological stigma around here that he is some kind of QB guru yet he has no track record to support it. When the Eagles took McNabb, he was the absolute no brainer choice for them, a top QB prospect and best on board when they were fortunate to pick, and clear guy they were going to take. It didn't take any magical deduction, and besides it was the GM who drafted him, not Reid. And just because that top prospect panned out doesn't by default make Reid a guru.

 

3. What has he done with QBs since? Nothing. None of the other guys have been much of anything. And his current QB, Alex Smith had his career resurrected by Jim Harbaugh and under Reid he went on to have one of the most notoriously dubious seasons in modern day NFL going 594 straight days (Spanning 2 seasons) without throwing a single TD to a WR despite having a big end zone target in Bowe at the time on the team.

 

Yet you keep making these massive proclamations about Mahomes all because of Andy Reid...yet you don't know his input on it, nor does it really matter because you also grossly over exaggerate Reid's guru status in regards to QB's. And don't get me wrong, I like Andy Reid, but you don't get to annoit him to some QB whisperer just to further sell your demigod like love affair with Mahomes you have rammed all down our throats at every chance you have gotten the last few months.

 

I would prefer our HC to draft based on what he thinks best, not what a non SB wining HC thinks just because his GM 20 years ago drafted Donovan McNabb.

I just read Emily Kaplan's piece on MMQB about the Bears' draft, and apparently many felt that KC viewed Trubisky as the top QB and wanted him.

 

"League sources say the Browns and Chiefs also coveted Trubisky and could have been a threat to up to No. 2."

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/02/nfl-chicago-bears-mitchell-trubisky-2017-nfl-draft

Edited May 2, 2017 by dave mcbride

[jeffismagic]

I just read Emily Kaplan's piece on MMQB about the Bears' draft, and apparently many felt that KC viewed Trubisky as the top QB and wanted him.

 

"League sources say the Browns and Chiefs also coveted Trubisky and could have been a threat to up to No. 2."

 

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/02/nfl-chicago-bears-mitchell-trubisky-2017-nfl-draft

That's not what the article said. It said Kansas City was believed to like Trubisky. I liked Trubisky as well.

 

My two targets in the first were always Mahomes and Trubisky.

 

Another piece about the 49er draft indicated Chiefs called everyone trying to get Mahomes. They tried to get in the top 5 for him offering 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 4th.

 

And it wasn't just the Chiefs. Giants and a few other teams called Buffalo. Chiefs win the derby.

 

So congrats to Sean who in 3 months of draft prep saw what idiots these other NFL teams were.

 

Sean is the Bills chief QB scout.

[HappyDays]

That's not what the article said. It said Kansas City was believed to like Trubisky. I liked Trubisky as well.

 

My two targets in the first were always Mahomes and Trubisky.

 

Another piece about the 49er draft indicated Chiefs called everyone trying to get Mahomes. They tried to get in the top 5 for him offering 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 4th.

 

And it wasn't just the Chiefs. Giants and a few other teams called Buffalo. Chiefs win the derby.

 

So congrats to Sean who in 3 months of draft prep saw what idiots these other NFL teams were.

 

Sean is the Bills chief QB scout.

I'll tell you what dude, if Mahomes ends up being good you can go all over this board taking credit for a great predication and no one can say anything. But if he sucks you're not gonna live this one down for a while. At least you're owning it, I respect that.

[mannc]

I'll tell you what dude, if Mahomes ends up being good you can go all over this board taking credit for a great predication and no one can say anything. But if he sucks you're not gonna live this one down for a while. At least you're owning it, I respect that.

Well, yes, but the second pillar of Jeffismagic's campaign is that Tyrod sucks and failing to take Mahomes at 10 doomed the Bills to another 17 years of failure. Mahomes may well turn out to be great, but if at the same time, Tyrod proves to be more than a bridge QB or if Cardale or Peterman become franchise QBs, then his "Mahomes or Bust" rallying cry will have been entirely misguided.

Edited May 2, 2017 by mannc

[dave mcbride]

That's not what the article said. It said Kansas City was believed to like Trubisky. I liked Trubisky as well.

 

My two targets in the first were always Mahomes and Trubisky.

 

Another piece about the 49er draft indicated Chiefs called everyone trying to get Mahomes. They tried to get in the top 5 for him offering 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 4th.

 

And it wasn't just the Chiefs. Giants and a few other teams called Buffalo. Chiefs win the derby.

 

So congrats to Sean who in 3 months of draft prep saw what idiots these other NFL teams were.

 

Sean is the Bills chief QB scout.

I'm no expert, but I thought Trubisky looked like a more impressive pro prospect. Time will tell.

[jeffismagic]

I'm no expert, but I thought Trubisky looked like a more impressive pro prospect. Time will tell.

 

I had this QB board:

 

1.Mahomes

2.Trubisky

3.Dobbs

 

Never had interest in Watson or Kizer.

[BuffaloHokie13]

Yep.

 

This bashing over the 2017 QB class while salivating over 2018 is absurd. If the 2018 class has 3 QB's go in the top 12, that's probably the best we could hope for.

Where they go doesn't really matter. In 2011 4 QB's went in the top 12. 1 is currently employed by an NFL team.

[dave mcbride]

 

I had this QB board:

 

1.Mahomes

2.Trubisky

3.Dobbs

 

Never had interest in Watson or Kizer.

I liked Webb, but again, I'm no expert.

[jeffismagic]

I liked Webb, but again, I'm no expert.

 

I wanted to like him but then realized that he was tall and white and would be picked higher where I would want to spend a pick.

 

I spent my time trying to figure out who had franchise potential and thought they were Mahomes and Trubisky. I like Dobbs as a value pick as a guy that could be a starter and maybe more.

[Fan in Chicago]

Fair enough. I didn't really think about that. I guess they need a safe haven to discuss their feelings, and lament their lost love.

That thread was started with the intent to thank him for his work here. Whether or not you agree he did a good job. This thread already existed to discuss his dismissal. That one had the premise in the OP. No one is squelching free speech if made respectfully.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

That thread was started with the intent to thank him for his work here. Whether or not you agree he did a good job. This thread already existed to discuss his dismissal. That one had the premise in the OP. No one is squelching free speech if made respectfully.

Correct, I just honestly didn't realize that opinions couldn't be stating on that post. The purpose of online forums are to discuss and to debate. If it was meant as a thank you note to Whaley for him to see (that's their purpose) it should have been stated by the OP not to deviate from saying good things. It seems slightly fanatical to thank a guy who earned millions to exactly what he did. Whaley was paid good money, it's not akin to posting a personal insult on a post memorializing someone, or sending out prayers for a loved one. The guy lost a job that made him wealthy because he didn't do good enough. Save your thanks for the people who serve and protect us while earning far less.

[bobbobbob]

I'm glad that Whaley is finally gone. It was well earned and overdue. Now Whaley and EJ can get a condo someplace and they can bask together in their "It Factor". Whaley did well with veteran FA pickups, but blew chunks on the most important task of finding a real franchise QB. And of course, the Sammy deal in a draft loaded with really good WR's. Jezzus, those two things set the franchise back 4 years alone. It also seems that Whaley can't get along with coaches. He doesn't play well with the other children? Was somebody not starting his favorite QB because he sucked?

 

Pegs still half-assed it by not doing a real clean sweep and canning Overdork and Brandon the sales weasel. Pegs is well meaning, but clearly a doofus that has to screw up over and over to learn things the hard way. Overdork is a contract/cap expert? Holy ****, good job on the Dareus contract. Russ is probably still spiking Peg's Geritol with some voodoo brainwash juju **** leftovers from the Ralph era. Marrone and his college offense? WTF. Don't let Rex leave the building! WTF. We still need to see a real clean sweep in One Bills Drive to exorcise the demons and the causes of the playoff drought.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

That thread was started with the intent to thank him for his work here. Whether or not you agree he did a good job. This thread already existed to discuss his dismissal. That one had the premise in the OP. No one is squelching free speech if made respectfully.

....which it should.....look at the abysmal patchwork FO and Administration since Littmann orchestrated the Polian firing....Butler tried but was intent on joining AJ in SD while leaving a cap jail mess.....so then the "parade" included the control freak DonoHOLE and his subordinating "on the cheap" HC's, Marv with his "re-tired" Pirellis, Brandon (not qualified), Dickie Jauron, "The Chan", "Crusty Buddy", Marrone who DID profess a culture change but his General Patton style pissed off the incumbents Whaley and Brandon, forcing his exodus....I don't see where "Rowan & Martins' Laugh In" cast could top this gang....Whaley gave it a shot, probably was a middle of the pack GM and now we have a new sheriff....will he be "Andy of Mayberry" or "Joe of Maricopa County"??.....stay tuned..........

Edited May 2, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[DriveFor1Outta5]

....which it should.....look at the abysmal patchwork FO and Administration since Littmann orchestrated the Polian firing....Butler tried but was intent on joining AJ in SD while leaving a cap jail mess.....so then the "parade" included the control freak DonoHOLE and his subordinating "on the cheap" HC's, Marv with his "re-tired" Pirellis, Brandon (not qualified), Dickie Jauron, "The Chan", "Crusty Buddy", Marrone who DID profess a culture change but his General Patton style pissed off the incumbents Whaley and Brandon, forcing his exodus....I don't see where "Rowan & Martins' Laugh In" cast could top this gang....Whaley gave it a shot, probably was a middle of the pack GM and now we have a new sheriff....will he be "Andy of Mayberry" or "Joe of Maricopa County"??.....stay tuned..........

Yet Whaley teams had similar records to every previous GM. We are headed in the right direction but it will McD who rights the ship. We just declined Sammy's option today. That tells you everything about the Whaley years. This team is changing course to meet the vision of the new coach. Whaley did an average job. Nothing more and nothing less. His thanks are in his bank account. He doesn't love notes from fans for doing an average job imo. Save those for the guy who wins a title. For example just don't understand how people can hate Donahoe yet love Whaley? The results were the same. Edited May 2, 2017 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Bill_with_it]

I dont know if anyone seen this:

 

Per reporter Vic Carucci, Whaley's firing was "fulfillment of a condition of McDermott's employment." This had been the rumor for months. It's a little surprising the Bills were willing to go through the public motions for weeks on end, but then again, they're not a good franchise. They're hoping McDermott will change that. May 1 - 2:59 PM

Source: Buffalo News

[Rico]

I dont know if anyone seen this:

 

Per reporter Vic Carucci, Whaley's firing was "fulfillment of a condition of McDermott's employment." This had been the rumor for months. It's a little surprising the Bills were willing to go through the public motions for weeks on end, but then again, they're not a good franchise. They're hoping McDermott will change that. May 1 - 2:59 PM

Source: Buffalo News

Nice, thanks McD!

[Alphadawg7]

Where they go doesn't really matter. In 2011 4 QB's went in the top 12. 1 is currently employed by an NFL team.

 

Yet, people are still going to run around and claim how good this crop is just because 3 went in top 12, which was relatively expected given how many QB needy teams were in this draft. It was hard to predict who, where and when given the great divide on this class where none of the QB's really established themselves as a must have guy or the clear pecking order of the top 4 guys. At one point Kizer was considered the guy likely to go first, and went last out of the top 4.

 

Jeffismagic wants to validate Mahomes as the next great thing before putting his cleats on just because Chiefs traded up for him and will use any piece of news he can to sell that agenda. The truth is, by almost all accounts, the Bears and the Chiefs are looked at having bad overall drafts. NONE of that means squat of course, all that will matter 3 years from now is what happens on the field of course.

 

Main reason the Chiefs are getting killed on this isn't even as much about Mahomes, but rather the fact they have a roster that contended for a SB birth this past year and could contend the next 2 seasons. But instead of using this talented and deep draft to try and get over the hump, they just used a first and a 3rd this year on a player who wont contribute likely for at least a year or two (depending how long he sits behind Smith) and next years first as well.

 

So the Chiefs, who lost Poe, could have reloaded with someone like Allen or another stud and still added another great prospect in the 3rd to help propel them further, but instead took a guy who wont likely play for this team for at least 1 to 2 years nor help them push for a SB in the near term. And they spent next years first to do so as well.

 

In the NFL you only have small windows to make the big dance. With FA and the high frequency of injuries with bigger and faster players, windows of opportunities don't typically last long. Which is another reason the Pats are a modern day marvel based how long they have fielded a dominant team, but its hard and rare to do so. The Chiefs basically chose to not try and take that next step now in hopes this pick proves to be something 3 to 5 years from now (he sits 1 to 2 years, then still needs time to play a year or two to start to reach his potential). They better be right, otherwise they will quickly go to the bottom of the AFC and this will go down as a terrible franchise turning trade of what was a strong team.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Alphadawg7