Kelly the Dog Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I agree. Mahomes is just a guy who is not TT, and TT is the real issue. Like a say above, TT ended the season with three straight games of over a 100 qb rating. I can see McDermott and Dennison looking at that and saying, "explain to me again why you're trying to run this guy out of town?" When views on the qb are that divergent, the situation is unsustainable. Another thing about Taylor: regardless of the flaws in his game, he is a gamer willing to play through pain and a serious, no-BS grinder. That is absolutely the sort of player SM has said he wants. Yep. If Sammy is healthy, I'm excited about Taylor in this offense. He's not going to be great, but I see a kind of Jake Plummer season, when Plummer was good or at least was a field general of a winning team. Like Denver 2005. TT already has better stats than Plummer, and I know Plummer sucked at different times in his career, I just mean ton of play action and roll outs and hitting open guys downfield combined with strong run game in a very efficient offense.
Heitz Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Sully with the Hot Take (er, make that Power Take): http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/01/jerry-sullivans-power-take-re-set-droughts-zero/ Consider the pot stirred, Sully
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Yep. If Sammy is healthy, I'm excited about Taylor in this offense. He's not going to be great, but I see a kind of Jake Plummer season, when Plummer was good or at least was a field general of a winning team. Like Denver 2005. TT already has better stats than Plummer, and I know Plummer sucked at different times in his career, I just mean ton of play action and roll outs and hitting open guys downfield combined with strong run game in a very efficient offense. Good comparison. Interesting fact: although Plummer's stats were just OK with Denver, they went 39-15 in the games he started for them (2003-06).
JohnC Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Conversely, if Taylor plays like he did in the final 3 games of last season (qb ratings of 100.1, 105.2, and 118.4), people won't care about Mahomes. As I've said elsewhere, the offense is set up for Taylor to succeed this season: he'll be throwing to a healthy Watkins in a contract year, a better, bigger #2 WR in Jones; and a TE who he clicked with really well late (15 catches on 17 targets in the final 2 games). There is also a potential ly big upgrade at RT and an elite RB to feed the ball to. Plus Dennison is a pretty solid coordinator. I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. I don't disagree with you that TT can play better with some upgrades on offense and a more smartly designed offense to better suit his talents. Where I disagree with you is that I believe that TT has limitations that will not be correctable. I don't believe that he will ever at a proficient level be able to make reads and go through progressions. Or another way of viewing it is the offense will be simplified to accommodate his specific talents. When you consider the teams that play in the playoffs and progress through them they usually have a higher caliber of qb who can play at a higher and more sophisticated level than TT can play at. I don't doubt that he has an upside but his ceiling is basically not much higher than what you are already seeing. For me, he is a little better than being adequate at best. As I said in the prior posts it's my belief that Whaley's assessment on the qb situation was correct. Because his judgment was in conflict with the wrestling coach it contributed to him being fired. In my view both Mahomes and Watson in the long run (not short run) have much more upside. When one strives to be a little better than respectable it is understandable why one would be satisfied with a TT caliber of qb. Not I.
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) I respectfully but strenuously disagree with you. I don't disagree with you that TT can play better with some upgrades on offense and a more smartly designed offense to better suit his talents. Where I disagree with you is that I believe that TT has limitations that will not be correctable. I don't believe that he will ever at a proficient level be able to make reads and go through progressions. Or another way of viewing it is the offense will be simplified to accommodate his specific talents. When you consider the teams that play in the playoffs and progress through them they usually have a higher caliber of qb who can play at a higher and more sophisticated level than TT can play at. I don't doubt that he has an upside but his ceiling is basically not much higher than what you are already seeing. For me, he is a little better than being adequate at best. As I said in the prior posts it's my belief that Whaley's assessment on the qb situation was correct. Because his judgment was in conflict with the wrestling coach it contributed to him being fired. In my view both Mahomes and Watson in the long run (not short run) have much more upside. When one strives to be a little better than respectable it is understandable why one would be satisfied with a TT caliber of qb. Not I. I don't know enough about Mahomes, although I'm distrustful of the conference and system he played in. I'm not a believer in Watson, although I could end up being wrong. Regardless, if they're REALLY being strategic about drafting a qb, then what they just did - accumulating a first for next season that they can parlay with their own to move up - is the way to do it. The 2018 draft is without a doubt a better qb draft than this one, at least from the perspective of today. There are three big-time prospects (Darnold, Rosen, and Allen) who would have probably all been drafted in the first round if they had come out this season. Edited May 1, 2017 by dave mcbride
JohnC Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I don't know enough about Mahomes, although I'm distrustful of the conference and system he played in. I'm not a believer in Watson, although I could end up being wrong. Regardless, if they're REALLY being strategic about drafting a qb, then what they just did - accumulating a first for next season that they can parlay with their own to move up - is the way to do it. The 2018 draft is without a doubt a better qb draft than this one, at least from the perspective of today. There are three big-time prospects (Darnold, Rosen, and Allen) who would have probably all been drafted in the first round if they had come out this season. I say this with respect and kindness but I abhor what you said in the highlighted segment. That dithering and wait until next year mentality has crippled this franchise. Why do you think this franchise has been without a viable long term qb for almost a quarter century? It is the vacillating approach that you just advocated for. For the sake of argument if the three elite prospects that you listed came out this year the Bills at the ten spot would not have had a chance to select any one of them, even with high picks thrown in a potential deal. Do you believe that Cleveland, San Fran, Chicago or the Jets would not snap at the chance to take any one of those elite prospects? The Bills are constructed to be a 6-8 win team. Although they are not wretchedly bad they are wretchedly mediocre. The Bills had a chance to select one of two very good qb prospects. They passed as they usually do. The ignominious non-playoff streak will continue. What you are recommending is what has usually been recommended. Why not try something more bold and take a calculated risk to do what is required to do to be a serious team? The drafting of a CB in the first round instead of a good qb prospect is a bland act that Jauron/Whaley would proudly do. They would be so proud of you. Not I.
John from Riverside Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Sully with the Hot Take (er, make that Power Take): http://buffalonews.com/2017/05/01/jerry-sullivans-power-take-re-set-droughts-zero/ Consider the pot stirred, Sully And Sully moves onto a new whipping boy
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I say this with respect and kindness but I abhor what you said in the highlighted segment. That dithering and wait until next year mentality has crippled this franchise. Why do you think this franchise has been without a viable long term qb for almost a quarter century? It is the vacillating approach that you just advocated for. For the sake of argument if the three elite prospects that you listed came out this year the Bills at the ten spot would not have had a chance to select any one of them, even with high picks thrown in a potential deal. Do you believe that Cleveland, San Fran, Chicago or the Jets would not snap at the chance to take any one of those elite prospects? The Bills are constructed to be a 6-8 win team. Although they are not wretchedly bad they are wretchedly mediocre. The Bills had a chance to select one of two very good qb prospects. They passed as they usually do. The ignominious non-playoff streak will continue. What you are recommending is what has usually been recommended. Why not try something more bold and take a calculated risk to do what is required to do to be a serious team? The drafting of a CB in the first round instead of a good qb prospect is a bland act that Jauron/Whaley would proudly do. They would be so proud of you. Not I. I generally agree that you can't wait forever, but you have to trust me here: next year's QB crop is almost universally regarded as a LOT better than this one. If they had drafted Mahomes, they would not draft another one high up next season. You are of course aware of this goes. It's not like they didn't draft anyone this year - Peterman is not a horrible prospect by any means.
Reed83HOF Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I generally agree that you can't wait forever, but you have to trust me here: next year's QB crop is almost universally regarded as a LOT better than this one. If they had drafted Mahomes, they would not draft another one high up next season. You are of course aware of this goes. It's not like they didn't draft anyone this year - Peterman is not a horrible prospect by any means. No guarantee they will be able to land one of the good ones. Jets, 49ers, Vikes, possibly Browns, Chargers will be most likely picking before us and will need one as well.... Wasn't sure this was you; the profile pic change threw me off
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 And Sully moves onto a new whipping boy ...SHOCKING isn't it?....wait until the two new GM's are hired....
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 No guarantee they will be able to land one of the good ones. Jets, 49ers, Vikes, possibly Browns, Chargers will be most likely picking before us and will need one as well.... Wasn't sure this was you; the profile pic change threw me off Just got a new kitten!
Dr. Who Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) Cleveland, Jets, SF, Pittsburgh, Cardinals, just off the top of my head, lots of teams will be jockeying to get one of the 2018 class. Cleveland has two ones and three twos. Jets and 49ers will not trade out. No guarantee OBD will end up with a chair when the music stops. Mahomes and Watson were birds-in-hand. I consider them potential franchise qbs. I would have taken Mahomes at ten. Unless the Bills are worse than their habitual "wretched mediocrity" it will cost them much more than the first and third they gained by trading out of ten. Peterman would have gone much earlier if he had a decent arm. He doesn't and I doubt his ceiling rises above okay backup. P.S. Forgot about the Chargers. Nice avatar. I somehow acquired a feral colony about ten years ago. I myself am servant to an ancient Persian. Edited May 1, 2017 by Dr. Who
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Cleveland, Jets, SF, Pittsburgh, Cardinals, just off the top of my head, lots of teams will be jockeying to get one of the 2018 class. Cleveland has two ones and three twos. Jets and 49ers will not trade out. No guarantee OBD will end up with a chair when the music stops. Mahomes and Watson were birds-in-hand. I consider them potential franchise qbs. I would have taken Mahomes at ten. Unless the Bills are worse than their habitual "wretched mediocrity" it will cost them much more than the first and third they gained by trading out of ten. Peterman would have gone much earlier if he had a decent arm. He doesn't and I doubt his ceiling rises above okay backup. P.S. Forgot about the Chargers. Nice avatar. I somehow acquired a feral colony about ten years ago. I myself am servant to an ancient Persian. ....Kiper was all over the video news saying the kid has the best chance of the 2017 class to be the "next Tom Brady"........hmmmmm............
JohnC Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) I generally agree that you can't wait forever, but you have to trust me here: next year's QB crop is almost universally regarded as a LOT better than this one. If they had drafted Mahomes, they would not draft another one high up next season. You are of course aware of this goes. It's not like they didn't draft anyone this year - Peterman is not a horrible prospect by any means. It isn't that I don't trust you--it's simply I don't accept your position. The argument that there will be more candidates is actually meaningless. What counts is when you draft is there a good qb prospect? You can be in a poor draft class year but if one of the few quality candidates is there then it is foolish not to seize the opportunity, something this bumbling franchise has been doing for almost a quarter century. Where has that gotten us? As far as your description that Peterman is not a horrible prospect that in itself is an indictment and a demonstration how incompetent this franchise is. Peterman at best is a poor man's McCarron or Dalton-lite. Why not go for the higher rated qb and improve your chances of landing a franchise qb. Why not make it a priority when drafting instead of pursuing long shots? Being mediocre is easily attainable when that is all you are striving for. That's the mentality of this this woeful franchise. Edited May 1, 2017 by JohnC
dave mcbride Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Cleveland, Jets, SF, Pittsburgh, Cardinals, just off the top of my head, lots of teams will be jockeying to get one of the 2018 class. Cleveland has two ones and three twos. Jets and 49ers will not trade out. No guarantee OBD will end up with a chair when the music stops. Mahomes and Watson were birds-in-hand. I consider them potential franchise qbs. I would have taken Mahomes at ten. Unless the Bills are worse than their habitual "wretched mediocrity" it will cost them much more than the first and third they gained by trading out of ten. Peterman would have gone much earlier if he had a decent arm. He doesn't and I doubt his ceiling rises above okay backup. P.S. Forgot about the Chargers. Nice avatar. I somehow acquired a feral colony about ten years ago. I myself am servant to an ancient Persian. Agreed about Peterman's arm: http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ . But check out Watson. Pretty grim. Maybe he overcomes it, but it's a warning sign ...
HappyDays Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Agreed about Peterman's arm: http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ . But check out Watson. Pretty grim. Maybe he overcomes it, but it's a warning sign ... I can't believe Watson was taken in the 1st. He screams NFL bust to me. Another Vince Young or Tim Tebow.
BillsFanNC Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Agreed about Peterman's arm: http://blogs.ourlads.com/2017/03/16/quarterback-ball-velocity-at-nfl-combine-2008-2015/ . But check out Watson. Pretty grim. Maybe he overcomes it, but it's a warning sign ... Drew Willy, Buffalo 58 NFW.
Saint Doug Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Pegula is evaluating QBs now? Yep. He was flying around interviewing QBs. This was revealed during Tim Murray's end of the year press conference.
bbb Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Conversely, if Taylor plays like he did in the final 3 games of last season (qb ratings of 100.1, 105.2, and 118.4), people won't care about Mahomes. As I've said elsewhere, the offense is set up for Taylor to succeed this season: he'll be throwing to a healthy Watkins in a contract year, a better, bigger #2 WR in Jones; and a TE who he clicked with really well late (15 catches on 17 targets in the final 2 games). There is also a potential ly big upgrade at RT and an elite RB to feed the ball to. Plus Dennison is a pretty solid coordinator. I don't understand why not much has been said about this. Tyrod's best game as a pro was his last game. Could he grown into a good QB at this point? It seems like everybody is looking at the whole body or work, and not how he was at the end of the season.
NoSaint Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Yep. If Sammy is healthy, I'm excited about Taylor in this offense. He's not going to be great, but I see a kind of Jake Plummer season, when Plummer was good or at least was a field general of a winning team. Like Denver 2005. TT already has better stats than Plummer, and I know Plummer sucked at different times in his career, I just mean ton of play action and roll outs and hitting open guys downfield combined with strong run game in a very efficient offense. im not the biggest taylor fan, but could buy that completely. we just need to stay real healthy at key spots if we are going to really step up. Sammy, mccoy and TT need to play pretty close to all 16.
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