JohnC Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Yes, Bills needed to get back in the game sooner. The problem was hiring Rex and soon after all our top draft picks in 2015 and 2016 were defensive guys to fit Rex's system when we already had a loaded 4-3 defense. The Ragland trade screamed head coach over Whaley and the lost pick could have been Dak Prescott. With respect to the highlighted area Whaley should have instead used the Adlophus Washington pick on Presscott. I don't care how much the loud mouth HC was pushing for his defensive players the GM should have taken control and made the right pick. Whaley is a good GM because he is accommodating; and he is a failed GM because he is too accommodating. What I find frustrating is that Whaley was ready to go full in and draft a qb with the first pick. He was made impotent by the owner. The moral of the story is acting too late is acting too late.
SDS Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 SDS, all respect, just begs the question "what is Sal's source? how does Sal know that?" Could also be quite true that Whaley had EJ as his top QB (I mean, look at the rest of the class) but had other players graded that high or higher, and Nix said "no, we'll go with QB here" (pick for need) How does any of this contradict what I said? I trust Sal. You don't have to if you don't want to. There are probably 20 people that know how that went down inside OBD. It's not a state secret.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 The problem with your position is that after the EJ fiasco there was little follow-up action to address the qb void. The problem was not swinging and missing--- the problem was not swinging again and again until he got the hit. As you stated Newsome moved back into the first round to select Flacco while Whaley was passive. That resulted in his downfall more than anything else. Wait, what? Flacco was drafted in 2008. Whaley wasn't even with the Bills yet. I do agree with your overall point that the Bills have had an overall pattern of under-addressing the QB issue, which goes far beyond Whaley. When they had Fitzpatrick, they should have been drafting QBs. After EJ, they should have continued drafting QBs. All one has to do is compare and contrast with the QB investment put forth by the Vikings or Eagles.
Thurman#1 Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Sal has said explicitly (again today) that Whaley set up the board, had EJ as his top QB and Buddy made the pick. Yup. Whaley was on board. It's always been obvious, more so every year as he has categorically refused to step away from the decision (for which I respect him). Having said that, setting up the board isn't much. He did it this year too. And not the one year before Nix left, but the last two. The power is in making the picks, saying yes or no, and being the guy who can walk up to the front at any time and switch two guys and nobody switches it back. Setting up the board is doing the grunt work and running the process. But unless the decision-making comes with it, it
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 How does any of this contradict what I said? I trust Sal. You don't have to if you don't want to. There are probably 20 people that know how that went down inside OBD. It's not a state secret. The original point was "what is the evidence?" to tag Whaley with full responsibility for the EJ pick. You cite Sal, who is a secondary source. Now maybe Sal's primary sources are beyond question - I don't know that, maybe you do - but we do have a lot of hearsay and contradictory reporting from the media on the Bills. That is all.
Thurman#1 Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Wait, what? Flacco was drafted in 2008. Whaley wasn't even with the Bills yet. I do agree with your overall point that the Bills have had an overall pattern of under-addressing the QB issue, which goes far beyond Whaley. When they had Fitzpatrick, they should have been drafting QBs. After EJ, they should have continued drafting QBs. All one has to do is compare and contrast with the QB investment put forth by the Vikings or Eagles. Good point. And I love to see them now drafting two guys in two years.
JohnC Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I'm with you JC. Drafting "character" players to clean up the atmosphere sounds very Levy/Jauron-esque. Who is going to be the Chris Kelsay on this roster who gets wildly overpaid because he's "one of the good guys"? The Bills were in a position to draft a high grade qb prospect. The HC with the authority passed on the opportunity while the former GM who lacked the authority wanted to select the qb. This scene has been replayed how many times with the same results. It's frustrating and odd.
Thurman#1 Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I'm with you JC. Drafting "character" players to clean up the atmosphere sounds very Levy/Jauron-esque. Who is going to be the Chris Kelsay on this roster who gets wildly overpaid because he's "one of the good guys"? The problem with Levy and Jauron wasn't that they drafted character guys. Belichick does that too, as do the Packers and most good teams, really. Then if they have to bring in an occasional bad egg ala Moss or Hernandez, they've got a good locker room to deal with it Not that that always works, but having a good locker room is crucial. The problem with Levy and Jauron wasn't that they drafted character guys, it was that they drafted guys without enough talent.
JohnC Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Wait, what? Flacco was drafted in 2008. Whaley wasn't even with the Bills yet. I do agree with your overall point that the Bills have had an overall pattern of under-addressing the QB issue, which goes far beyond Whaley. When they had Fitzpatrick, they should have been drafting QBs. After EJ, they should have continued drafting QBs. All one has to do is compare and contrast with the QB investment put forth by the Vikings or Eagles. The highlighted area is my point. The timeline has little to do with the point. From all reports Whaley wanted to use the first pick on a qb. He didn't have the authority to make that decision. The new empowered HC preferred going in a different direction. And the beat goes on.
hondo in seattle Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Watching the Pegula presser, I got the impression that Whaley's firing was about more than just his mistakes in the draft. Maybe I'm reading between the lines incorrectly but Terry didn't once knock the roster and seemed cautiously happy with this particular draft. I think there's something else.
chris heff Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Yeah, who could imagine anyone saying the Pegulas haven't done well? Shining exemplars of owners who win, it's obvious to anyone. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, but after months of calling for Whaley's head they can't stop.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) Watching the Pegula presser, I got the impression that Whaley's firing was about more than just his mistakes in the draft. Maybe I'm reading between the lines incorrectly but Terry didn't once knock the roster and seemed cautiously happy with this particular draft. I think there's something else. I agree with you, I saw the same thing. I don't think this is about any drafting mistakes or player talent evaluation. It might be about overall strategy for cap management and player retention. Whaley has said publically he relied on Overdorf to help him understand the cap implications of various moves, and it's possible they now want a GM who is more expert at the financial aspect of roster management. It might be about Whaley as a people manager, which is a big part of the GM's job (lots of scouts etc reporting to Whaley), or about his working relationship with Coach McWrestler, or even about Whaley's non-existent ability to deal with the press. Edited May 1, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan
Simon Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 With respect to the highlighted area Whaley should have instead used the Adlophus Washington pick on Presscott. I don't care how much the loud mouth HC was pushing for his defensive players the GM should have taken control and made the right pick. Adolphus Washington was not a Rex pick. It was a Doug pick and at the time he felt like it was one of the bigger steals of the draft. This year will tell a lot about whether his instincts were correct.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 I agree with you, I saw the same thing. Pegs did say we need to do better in some areas
jeffismagic Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Adolphus Washington was not a Rex pick. It was a Doug pick and at the time he felt like it was one of the bigger steals of the draft. This year will tell a lot about whether his instincts were correct. What about the Ragland trade?
nucci Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 They've done quite a few things right with the Bills (I don't follow the Sabres very closely)... 1. Refused to give in to Marrone's demands 2. Fired Rex as soon as they knew it wasn't working, rather than let it drag out 3. Hired Sean McDermott 4. Fired Whaley (better late than never) I have faith that they will hire a very good GM and this franchise will be in good hands with he and McDermott moving forward. I haven't felt this good as a Bills fan since the 1990's. I don't get the love for McDermott.....praise them for firing Ryan and criticize them for hiring him in the 1st place....had a top 5 defense and close to the playoffs and Ryan destroyed it....
MAJBobby Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Russ reported to lead Sabres GM search. So think here is going to be any different Bradley Gelber (@BradleyGelber) 4/30/17, 9:20 PM Wow. @FriedgeHNIC says he believes Russ Brandon is leading the search for the #Sabres next GM. That ought to make fans happy... 😳 twitter.com/buffalowins/st
jeffismagic Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Russ reported to lead Sabres GM search. So think here is going to be any different Bradley Gelber (@BradleyGelber) 4/30/17, 9:20 PM Wow. @FriedgeHNIC says he believes Russ Brandon is leading the search for the #Sabres next GM. That ought to make fans happy... twitter.com/buffalowins/st Goodbye Jack Eichel.
Wayne Arnold Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Russ reported to lead Sabres GM search. So think here is going to be any different Bradley Gelber (@BradleyGelber) 4/30/17, 9:20 PM Wow. @FriedgeHNIC says he believes Russ Brandon is leading the search for the #Sabres next GM. That ought to make fans happy... twitter.com/buffalowins/st Why would Russ lead the Bills GM search? We already have the candidates. Just need to interview them and try to convince one to come here.
YoloinOhio Posted May 1, 2017 Posted May 1, 2017 Why would Russ lead the Bills GM search? We already have the candidates. Just need to interview them and try to convince one to come here. Central point of contact I would guess. Are they using a search firm?
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