GM Doug Whaley has been fired

[mob16151]

I am baffled by this. There had to be some kind of schism between McDermott and Whaley and Pegula chose McDermott. The irony in this is they had a great draft so they're going to fire the GM and all the scouts. LOL. Dysfunction anybody?

Some scouts will get probably get fired,but I still think Whaley is safe. This is just local media trying to stir the pot.

Edited April 30, 2017 by mob16151

[Watching since 1964]

Nix may have made the final call on the pick but Whaley constantly owned it. He himself said if EJ didn't work out he'd be out of a job. He traded a future 1st round pick for a WR. There is no way you can say Whaley wasn't fully on board with EJ as our starter.

While no fan of Whaley's, for the reasons you mentioned and more, I'm trying to do something I normally don't do on the subject...be open minded.

 

lol

 

Sal C. (@salsports) weighed in on DW and the EJ pick the other day...

 

He tweeted this on 04/27/17.

 

"He DID set up the board. And he had EJ as the top ranked QB. That doesn't mean he did or even would have taken him in Rd 1."

 

You are right about him saying back in '13 talking that if after 3 years if EJ didn't work out, he'd be looking for a job. He put it this way to the media... "Hey guys...anybody got a job for me?" He was having a little fun with them. Not sure if he was 100% serious.

 

Here's that clip...

 

[Buddo]

I find it both rather odd, and rather stupid, to be even thinking about canning Whaley. The pro-personnel side of things, has been exceptional, and without a doubt, he set it all up.

 

Now, it may be time for some scouts to move on, but I'm not convinced that that should be the case either. For better or worse, I think Whaley has pretty much gone out on a limb, to draft the types of players successive HCs wanted, and he has seemed to be able to find guys who 'fit' what they were after.

 

Some of the issues with that, have been more injury related, rather than the ability of the players, some of which are yet to be determined.

 

It seems to me, that as usual in any forum I've been to that is about the Bills, Whaley is deemed a failure, largely on the back of his inability to find a franchise QB. He's not alone in that, as a plethora of other NFL teams can attest.

 

I'm extremely uncomfortable with giving a new HC, the degree of power that it appears, atm, he is going to have, especially when he has proven nothing as a HC.

 

The notion that the Assistant GM of the Panthers is going to become our new GM, is also disturbing, in that I neither know anything about him, and his association with the Panthers, means that the only real pick at QB that they would have made in his time there, (assuming he was there then) was Jimmy Clausen. Cam was such an obvious pick, it's just not true, and I'm totally discounting that. So we aren't getting someone who is demonstrably better than Whaley, at the critical 'position', yet we are going to potentially blow up all the scouting side of things, just because our new HC wants to have his own guys there.

 

My view of this draft is that we pretty much drafted for need, and got lucky in that need and value coincided with our first two picks, and with the Peterman pick. Is this the way we will be going from now? Need over ability?

 

Now, while I'm not a subscriber to the 'BPA' nonsense spouted regularly by teams, I do believe that you shouldn't be passing up on exceptional talent just to fill a need, which I feel is the way we are heading.

 

Fwiw, I don't have a problem with removing guys from the board due to character issues. These days, it just comes back to bite you on the ass, regularly, with suspensions etc. Anything that prevents a guy from suiting up Sundays, is a red flag, be it injury or suspension.

[Billzgobowlin]

I don't buy the Panthers assistant GM replacing Whaley but I do see it being possible Whaley does get fired. Pegula got rid of Tim Murray because of discipline issues and I am sure McDermott or even Polian brought these issues to light in the Bills organization first. My guess is that Polian stayed away in the first place because of that such issue and Pegula wasn't ready to purge that side of things yet. Just my thoughts.

[nucci]

I find it both rather odd, and rather stupid, to be even thinking about canning Whaley. The pro-personnel side of things, has been exceptional, and without a doubt, he set it all up.

 

Now, it may be time for some scouts to move on, but I'm not convinced that that should be the case either. For better or worse, I think Whaley has pretty much gone out on a limb, to draft the types of players successive HCs wanted, and he has seemed to be able to find guys who 'fit' what they were after.

 

Some of the issues with that, have been more injury related, rather than the ability of the players, some of which are yet to be determined.

 

It seems to me, that as usual in any forum I've been to that is about the Bills, Whaley is deemed a failure, largely on the back of his inability to find a franchise QB. He's not alone in that, as a plethora of other NFL teams can attest.

 

I'm extremely uncomfortable with giving a new HC, the degree of power that it appears, atm, he is going to have, especially when he has proven nothing as a HC.

 

The notion that the Assistant GM of the Panthers is going to become our new GM, is also disturbing, in that I neither know anything about him, and his association with the Panthers, means that the only real pick at QB that they would have made in his time there, (assuming he was there then) was Jimmy Clausen. Cam was such an obvious pick, it's just not true, and I'm totally discounting that. So we aren't getting someone who is demonstrably better than Whaley, at the critical 'position', yet we are going to potentially blow up all the scouting side of things, just because our new HC wants to have his own guys there.

 

My view of this draft is that we pretty much drafted for need, and got lucky in that need and value coincided with our first two picks, and with the Peterman pick. Is this the way we will be going from now? Need over ability?

 

Now, while I'm not a subscriber to the 'BPA' nonsense spouted regularly by teams, I do believe that you shouldn't be passing up on exceptional talent just to fill a need, which I feel is the way we are heading.

 

Fwiw, I don't have a problem with removing guys from the board due to character issues. These days, it just comes back to bite you on the ass, regularly, with suspensions etc. Anything that prevents a guy from suiting up Sundays, is a red flag, be it injury or suspension.

Most teams draft for need....you need players to replace the ones that leave.....happens to every team......and why was it luck?

[Buddo]

Most teams draft for need....you need players to replace the ones that leave.....happens to every team......and why was it luck?

 

It was luck that the class was deep where we needed it to be, and that other teams hadn't taken guys we were interested in, although moving ahead of the Panthers had to be done. If McDermott wasn't our HC, would we have known how interested they were in Jones? Or Dawkins for that matter.

 

I agree that need is a factor when drafting, and I've had plenty of arguments (elsewhere) over the years about this, my concern is how much weight is being put upon 'need' as a factor when drafting. This draft, to an extent, you can probably get away with it, as once you got out of the top 10, there wasn't, supposedly, a lot to separate the next 30-40 guys, all of whom were expected to be viable NFL starters, but are we now locked in, under McDermott, to pursuing needs only? Going to miss on some good players if we do that, and be 'reaching' a lot. Past history should tell you how that has worked out over the years, with a variety of busts and mediocrity, when there were other better guys available, who would have helped the team more over the years.

[BillsFan17]

Weird so a guy who worked for Rivera for years has interest in the same players that Rivera does.

 

Scouting is a full year process if not more. So while working there during this past season and having an idea who they scout, combined with knowing how they approach the draft year in and year out...

 

I mean, not for nothing when people wanted to know why we wouldn't fire scouts before the draft instead of after- this was part of the reason, you don't want them bringing their info with them to another team.

 

Furthermore, by their logic, the Giants have a case against a lot of teams. Reese has been known for making his love certain players abundant and other teams have pounced on those players.

 

i.e. they loved Conklin and Floyd last year, so the Titans and Bears respectively jumped them in the draft...

 

So because the Panthers were linked to players and loved, don't make it my problem you can't throw shade during the biggest poker game of the year.

 

My favorite part was "that's why they had a DECENT draft, because Bean was runbing it."

 

So their heir apparent only runs a "decent draft."

I am baffled by this. There had to be some kind of schism between McDermott and Whaley and Pegula chose McDermott. The irony in this is they had a great draft so they're going to fire the GM and all the scouts. LOL. Dysfunction anybody?

Huh? By all accounts McDermott has a lot of control and made a lot of those moves during the draft.

 

Furthermore, as much as I love the draft and how they worked it, how are we calling this a great draft already? Because rhe media gave us a high grade?

 

A draft takes time to evaluate. On paper, sure looks fantastic, but we haven't made the playoffs in how long?

 

We have the least amount of drafred players on the roster from 2010 on.

 

How do those scouts and/or Whaley deserve to maintain their jobs? Because you like how this draft panned out a day after it completed?

Edited April 30, 2017 by BillsFan17

[jumbalaya]

Whaley should be let go. He put together losing team after losing team. Cap management is horrible. We used a first and second round pick to replace an all pro CB and very capable #2 WR; both should have been retained.

 

Now we have two rookies that may become as good as the players they replaced -- in three years time. With 'may' being the operative word as either or both could be mediocre or suck out right.

 

Not likely tho, is it? Like we have never had a #1 or 2 pick that didn't work out....

 

Draft, train, let them walk, re-draft, train, let them walk, is not building a team in anyway. It's treading water and why we have not been in the playoffs since I last bought a pair of underwear.

 

Personally I thought this draft was a waste except the extra pick next year.

[nucci]

Whaley should be let go. He put together losing team after losing team. Cap management is horrible. We used a first and second round pick to replace an all pro CB and very capable #2 WR; both should have been retained.

 

Now we have two rookies that may become as good as the players they replaced -- in three years time. With 'may' being the operative word as either or both could be mediocre or suck out right.

 

Not likely tho, is it? Like we have never had a #1 or 2 pick that didn't work out....

 

Draft, train, let them walk, re-draft, train, let them walk, is not building a team in anyway. It's treading water and why we have not been in the playoffs since I last bought a pair of underwear.

 

Personally I thought this draft was a waste except the extra pick next year.

You would have been ok with the contracts Gilmore and Woods signed? I'm guessing many would be criticizing Whaley if he gave them those deals

[jeffismagic]

The Bills draft was an obvious Coach draft, not a GM draft. McDermott was a rookie GM making the picks after Whaley and the scouts handed him their board.

[Captain_Quint]

The Bills draft was an obvious Coach draft, not a GM draft. McDermott was a rookie GM making the picks after Whaley and the scouts handed him their board.

Andy Reid on the other hand.....

[Pbomb]

Whaley should be let go. He put together losing team after losing team. Cap management is horrible. We used a first and second round pick to replace an all pro CB and very capable #2 WR; both should have been retained.

 

Now we have two rookies that may become as good as the players they replaced -- in three years time. With 'may' being the operative word as either or both could be mediocre or suck out right.

 

Not likely tho, is it? Like we have never had a #1 or 2 pick that didn't work out....

 

Draft, train, let them walk, re-draft, train, let them walk, is not building a team in anyway. It's treading water and why we have not been in the playoffs since I last bought a pair of underwear.

 

Personally I thought this draft was a waste except the extra pick next year.

 

you say hes terrible at cap management but you wanted them to resign gilmore and woods for around 23 mil a year? We have a full roster with like 12 mil in cap room left, plenty of $ next year. to me that doesnt seem like cap mismanagement

[jeffismagic]

Andy Reid on the other hand.....

 

On the other hand...

 

Not sure what you are saying or what he has to do with the Bills.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

I find it both rather odd, and rather stupid, to be even thinking about canning Whaley. The pro-personnel side of things, has been exceptional, and without a doubt, he set it all up.

 

Now, it may be time for some scouts to move on, but I'm not convinced that that should be the case either. For better or worse, I think Whaley has pretty much gone out on a limb, to draft the types of players successive HCs wanted, and he has seemed to be able to find guys who 'fit' what they were after.

 

Some of the issues with that, have been more injury related, rather than the ability of the players, some of which are yet to be determined.

 

It seems to me, that as usual in any forum I've been to that is about the Bills, Whaley is deemed a failure, largely on the back of his inability to find a franchise QB. He's not alone in that, as a plethora of other NFL teams can attest.

 

I'm extremely uncomfortable with giving a new HC, the degree of power that it appears, atm, he is going to have, especially when he has proven nothing as a HC.

 

The notion that the Assistant GM of the Panthers is going to become our new GM, is also disturbing, in that I neither know anything about him, and his association with the Panthers, means that the only real pick at QB that they would have made in his time there, (assuming he was there then) was Jimmy Clausen. Cam was such an obvious pick, it's just not true, and I'm totally discounting that. So we aren't getting someone who is demonstrably better than Whaley, at the critical 'position', yet we are going to potentially blow up all the scouting side of things, just because our new HC wants to have his own guys there.

 

My view of this draft is that we pretty much drafted for need, and got lucky in that need and value coincided with our first two picks, and with the Peterman pick. Is this the way we will be going from now? Need over ability?

 

Now, while I'm not a subscriber to the 'BPA' nonsense spouted regularly by teams, I do believe that you shouldn't be passing up on exceptional talent just to fill a need, which I feel is the way we are heading.

 

Fwiw, I don't have a problem with removing guys from the board due to character issues. These days, it just comes back to bite you on the ass, regularly, with suspensions etc. Anything that prevents a guy from suiting up Sundays, is a red flag, be it injury or suspension.

 

.....agree on all accounts Buddo........good assessment....................

[GunnerBill]

Let me say this.... I think Doug Whaley knows what is going on. I don't believe he is hanging on the wind waiting to find out. I suspect a repositioing or his departure has been agreed for some time.

[jeffismagic]

Let me say this.... I think Doug Whaley knows what is going on. I don't believe he is hanging on the wind waiting to find out. I suspect a repositioing or his departure has been agreed for some time.

 

I think that sounds reasonable. Looking back at what we now know about the past few years Doug Whaley should have resigned after the Rex Ryan hire. He maybe thought he could earn the Pegulas' trust over time but all that happened was that he lost power and his roster that was ready to make the playoffs had its window close.

[Rico]

Bottom-line results are what count, especially in the NFL. Anything less than making the playoffs is a failed season. The 3 seasons before Lil Doug became GM were failures. Being that he wasn't in charge, I can't assign too much blame to him, but they were failures nonetheless. He's been GM now for 4 seasons of failure, where the absolute maximum anyone should be given is 3 years. You only get one mulligan, and that's for your first year. I don't care about excuses, or any small successes, or any bleeding hearts weeping for him. I only look at the bottom line, and I see 7 years of failure, with 4 years of failure in charge... way, way past time for him to go.

[r00tabaga]

I still think that Whaley has put together a pretty talented team that underperformed due to coaching, in fact much more talented than Bills teams of the past. The only downfall, not finding a top 10 QB so far. If a GM gets fired just based on that, then that puts any GM in a bad place until they get lucky, essentially. Very few QBs coming out are sure thing top 10 QBs.

I like this a lot. Kinda where I'm at but couldn't word it.

[Wayne Cubed]

And there it is... Doug Whaley relieved of his duties

[PlayoffsPlease]

Whaley has been with the team for seven years. No playoffs in that time. And people still are comfortable describing his performance as "exceptionaL" or "outstanding". He just isn't. He is just a guy who has made some madden moves that panned out and some that didn't. He has established no vision, nor ever stamped the team with a personality, you know, they way gms that build champions do.
Have the Bills had worse GMs. Hell yeah. Do most of the other NFL teams have better GM"s, that is another Hell yeah.