ALF Posted December 15, 2017 Posted December 15, 2017 March 14 The 2018 league year and free agency period begin at 4:00 p.m., New York time. April 26-28 2018 NFL Draft, AT&T Stadium, Arlington, TX. https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2017-18-important-nfl-dates/ With so many teams wanting a QB it will be difficult to trade up. Quote
OldTimer1960 Posted December 15, 2017 Posted December 15, 2017 11 hours ago, ALF said: March 14 The 2018 league year and free agency period begin at 4:00 p.m., New York time. April 26-28 2018 NFL Draft, AT&T Stadium, Arlington, TX. https://operations.nfl.com/football-ops/league-governance/2017-18-important-nfl-dates/ With so many teams wanting a QB it will be difficult to trade up. I'm afraid that you are right. It is going to take a very high price, if it is even possible to find a willing trade partner. I think FA may be their best option to find a serviceable QB. Quote
4merper4mer Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 Is this recent hype about the Keane kid from Coastal Carolina for real? Out injured at the end of the season and hardly from a football school . Why the buzz so late in the game. It reminds me when nobody even mentioned Gabbert for years, then wham....top 10 pick. Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) On 12/11/2017 at 2:29 PM, Acantha said: Personally, there's a couple of guys that I think are better suited to making the transition and succeeding in the NFL (so guys that I'm quietly rooting for), but I don't honestly care who the pick is as long as they're not sitting back and waiting for the whoever happens to fall to them. Think that Rudolph is the guy you like and think there's a chance he could fall to you? Don't wait, just go get him. As long as it's someone they've done their homework on and believe can be their guy, do it. I’m kind of in agreement but have a slightly different perspective. I am not okay if they pick the guy that they are comfortable with. They absolutely have to be right. This can’t be another EJ. This whole rebuild is predicated on getting that guy now. If in 3 years he ends up being Blake Bortles we have taken yet another step back. They have to get it right. Fortunately there are a lot of guys in this class that I like. Like any class though, some will pan out, some will fail. The Bills need to do everything that they can to ensure success for him. Dennison has to go. You have to get someone that’s worked with young QBs successfully. You have to upgrade the receivers, solidify the line and have a solid running game. The next 5-10 years will depend on the success of the new QB. Edited December 16, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Quote
JohnC Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 On 12/11/2017 at 3:29 PM, Acantha said: Personally, there's a couple of guys that I think are better suited to making the transition and succeeding in the NFL (so guys that I'm quietly rooting for), but I don't honestly care who the pick is as long as they're not sitting back and waiting for the whoever happens to fall to them. Think that Rudolph is the guy you like and think there's a chance he could fall to you? Don't wait, just go get him. As long as it's someone they've done their homework on and believe can be their guy, do it. I agree with the spirit of your post. This staff has to identity their top three or four qb prospects who they believe will be quality franchise qbs. Then it has to take an aggressive approach to put themselves in a position to get one of those players. As you stated, passively waiting in an environment when nearly half the league needs a qb is a recipe for settling for a lesser option. That's not good enough. No matter which qb is identified there are going to be plenty of critics. What's right for you might not be right for another team. Getting that right fit increases the chances of success. What the LA Ram situation with Goff proves is that how you handle the qb and the support system (surrounding players) is critical to success. But make no mistake there are no guarantees. If the qb selected doesn't work out then you have to keep at it and find a better option. The problem won't be solved by itself. Quote
JohnC Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m kind of in agreement but have a slightly different perspective. I am not okay if they pick the guy that they are comfortable with. They absolutely have to be right. This can’t be another EJ. This whole rebuild is predicated on getting that guy now. If in 3 years he ends up being Blake Bortles we have taken yet another step back. They have to get it right. Fortunately there are a lot of guys in this class that I like. Like any class though, some will pan out, some will fail. The Bills need to do everything that they can to ensure diverse for him. Dennison has to go. You have to get someone that’s worked with young QBs successfully. You have to upgrade the receivers, solidify the line and have a solid running game. The next 5-10 years will depend on the success of the new QB. The best example of the support system required for young qb is the Ram model. They brought in a young, energetic and creative HC known for his ability to work with qbs. The best way to describe him is that he is a qb whisperer. The organization did exactly as you suggested in your post. They upgraded the receiving corps by drafting Kupp and adding Woods and Watkins. They then upgraded the line with bringing in a LT (Whitworth) and .center (Sullivan). That not only provided better protection but improved the blocking to support Gurley. 1 Quote
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, JohnC said: The best example of the support system required for young qb is the Ram model. They brought in a young, energetic and creative HC known for his ability to work with qbs. The best way to describe him is that he is a qb whisperer. The organization did exactly as you suggested in your post. They upgraded the receiving corps by drafting Kupp and adding Woods and Watkins. They then upgraded the line with bringing in a LT (Whitworth) and .center (Sullivan). That not only provided better protection but improved the blocking to support Gurley. ....just don't see Dennison ever being that creative or innovative nor do I see McD dumping him....thus we have a conundrum.......as far as drafting a QB, have seen mocks projecting Rudolph as a mid to late 1st and even one that had him falling to 2nd.....should he or would he be a consideration (don't get to see college ball)?.......would allow some preservation of draft capital versus moving up and surrendering pick(s)... Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, JohnC said: The best example of the support system required for young qb is the Ram model. They brought in a young, energetic and creative HC known for his ability to work with qbs. The best way to describe him is that he is a qb whisperer. The organization did exactly as you suggested in your post. They upgraded the receiving corps by drafting Kupp and adding Woods and Watkins. They then upgraded the line with bringing in a LT (Whitworth) and .center (Sullivan). That not only provided better protection but improved the blocking to support Gurley. That’s the model that I had in mind. They brought in Kromer too who is sort of the OL whisperer. The Eagles did it too and the Bucs tried to by keeping Koetter instead of Lovie. We absolutely have to have the right guy developing the QB. Edited December 16, 2017 by Kirby Jackson Quote
JohnC Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....just don't see Dennison ever being that creative or innovative nor do I see McD dumping him....thus we have a conundrum.......as far as drafting a QB, have seen mocks projecting Rudolph as a mid to late 1st and even one that had him falling to 2nd.....should he or would he be a consideration (don't get to see college ball)?.......would allow some preservation of draft capital versus moving up and surrendering pick(s)... Dennison has received a lot of criticism. Is it fair or not? I'm not as harsh a critic of him as others are because the qb he is calling plays for has major limitations. His repertoire of plays is going to be much more limited than with a more well rounded qb who can use the whole field and go through progressions. The criticisms that Dennison is receiving is the same criticisms that Roman encountered. Maybe if they had a full-serviced qb they could call a more rounded and creative game. In addition, when Peterman is in you can't over complicate the playbook because the novice is still learning the pro game. The problem with this year's draft for us is that there are so many teams needing qbs. It can be almost half the teams in the league. The player in a normal year who might be available in the middle of the draft could be pushed up into the top third of the draft this year. My feeling is that if you intend on getting a qb then it would be better to make a mistake being aggressive rather than losing out by being passive and waiting. The Bills are in a good situation even against teams who are drafting higher than us because we have the chips (draft picks) that would allow us to move ahead of most of the pack. 9 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That’s the model that I had in mind. They brough in Kromer too who is sort of the OL whisperer. The Eagles did it too and the Bucs tried to by keeping Koetter instead of Lovie. We absolutely have to have the right guy developing the QB. One of McVay's first hires was bringing in Wade Phillips to run the defense. There are a lot of showmen in the league who garner attention because they are characters. Phillips is a stolid personality with no ego. He is one of the best defensive coaches in the business. Wherever he goes he succeeds. The Rams demonstrated this offseason how important it is to have the right people managing the team. It's not about collecting talent as it is about molding the talent. This team made a quantum leap forward because of the many smart decisions they made this past offseason. Compare that to Rex who brought in his brother to create more chaos in an already chaotic situation? 2 Quote
Acantha Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: I’m kind of in agreement but have a slightly different perspective. I am not okay if they pick the guy that they are comfortable with. They absolutely have to be right. This can’t be another EJ. This whole rebuild is predicated on getting that guy now. If in 3 years he ends up being Blake Bortles we have taken yet another step back. They have to get it right. Fortunately there are a lot of guys in this class that I like. Like any class though, some will pan out, some will fail. The Bills need to do everything that they can to ensure success for him. Dennison has to go. You have to get someone that’s worked with young QBs successfully. You have to upgrade the receivers, solidify the line and have a solid running game. The next 5-10 years will depend on the success of the new QB. Don't get me wrong, I know what you mean, but there are no guarantees in the draft. It just doesn't work that way. They have to find the guy that they believe will be great and go get him, no matter what it takes. If in 3 or 4 years it ends up being wrong, then they have to do it again. There's simply no other choice. Giving up a bunch of draft picks and failing will suck big time, but it's the price you pay for trying to fix your team for the next 15 years. Quote
Kirby Jackson Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 32 minutes ago, Acantha said: Don't get me wrong, I know what you mean, but there are no guarantees in the draft. It just doesn't work that way. They have to find the guy that they believe will be great and go get him, no matter what it takes. If in 3 or 4 years it ends up being wrong, then they have to do it again. There's simply no other choice. Giving up a bunch of draft picks and failing will suck big time, but it's the price you pay for trying to fix your team for the next 15 years. It’s not exact but there are guys every year that are safer than others. As an example I think there is virtually no chance that Rosen is worse than an average NFL starter. Josh Allen could end up in he HOF but could flame out quickly. They certainly have to trust trust their scouting but all prospects don’t come with the same amount of risk. I prefer production to promise. Quote
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 5 hours ago, JohnC said: The best example of the support system required for young qb is the Ram model. They brought in a young, energetic and creative HC known for his ability to work with qbs. The best way to describe him is that he is a qb whisperer. The organization did exactly as you suggested in your post. They upgraded the receiving corps by drafting Kupp and adding Woods and Watkins. They then upgraded the line with bringing in a LT (Whitworth) and .center (Sullivan). That not only provided better protection but improved the blocking to support Gurley. Could have had Kupp over Jones, wanted both but Kupp more. 5 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....just don't see Dennison ever being that creative or innovative nor do I see McD dumping him....thus we have a conundrum.......as far as drafting a QB, have seen mocks projecting Rudolph as a mid to late 1st and even one that had him falling to 2nd.....should he or would he be a consideration (don't get to see college ball)?.......would allow some preservation of draft capital versus moving up and surrendering pick(s)... If we get Rudolph, I hope we get Alex Smith, cousins, or Keenum to bridge him. Quote
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Could have had Kupp over Jones, wanted both but Kupp more. If we get Rudolph, I hope we get Alex Smith, cousins, or Keenum to bridge him. ...with Keenum the only healthy one in the stable, they'd be fools to let him walk.....although there will be TBD detractors abound, the Smith & Rudolph tandem in Buffalo blue seems pretty atrtactive IMO...... Quote
JohnC Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Could have had Kupp over Jones, wanted both but Kupp more. I still believe that Jones is going to be a good receiver. Kupp has been exceptional in his rookie year. Kupp is playing in a modern passing offense with Goff throwing to him. Jones is playing in a primitive passing offense with a running qb throwing to him. It is futile comparing receivers when the situations are so drastically different. 1 Quote
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 42 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...with Keenum the only healthy one in the stable, they'd be fools to let him walk.....although there will be TBD detractors abound, the Smith & Rudolph tandem in Buffalo blue seems pretty atrtactive IMO...... Yeah, just not a huge Rudolph fan, he could turn out fine but just not impressed with him. 40 minutes ago, JohnC said: I still believe that Jones is going to be a good receiver. Kupp has been exceptional in his rookie year. Kupp is playing in a modern passing offense with Goff throwing to him. Jones is playing in a primitive passing offense with a running qb throwing to him. It is futile comparing receivers when the situations are so drastically different. Good point. Is our passing offense really that outdated or do we just not have the talent. Quote
Dr. Who Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 Rudolph has a meh arm, a wr corps full of future pros in a conference that rarely plays defense. His decision making is suspect. Not at all impressed with him, so he is probably the fella we end up with. Quote
JohnC Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Good point. Is our passing offense really that outdated or do we just not have the talent. It's both. If you are not sure what I mean then go watch a Ram game. You will see a qb completing passes all over the field to their very good receivers. It's a dramatically different and entertaining game. When you watch the Bills passing offense it is like an Amish horse and buggy entering a race in the Kentucky derby. The qualitative difference is embarrassingly obvious. 1 Quote
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 1 minute ago, JohnC said: It's both. If you are not sure what I mean then go watch a Ram game. You will see a qb completing passes all over the field to their very good receivers. It's a dramatically different and entertaining game. When you watch the Bills passing offense it is like an Amish horse and buggy entering a race in the Kentucky derby. The qualitative difference is embarrassingly obvious. You mean our very good receivers Quote
JohnC Posted December 16, 2017 Posted December 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: You mean our very good receivers If you don't have a trigger man it doesn't matter who your receivers are. Their talents, limited or not, will still be wasted. Quote
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