jethro_tull Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) Last night the Bills picked up a solid CB that should have immediate impact (White was rated #2 by Ourlads) in the first round. They received in exchange an extra third round pick and a first round pick next year. This is a solid deal! If you don't think so- who was available at the #10 position that was worth a 3rd and next year's 1st? Who was available that was worth that cost, that gamble? Edited April 28, 2017 by jethro_tull
BuffAlone Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 Last night the Bills picked up a solid CB that should have immediate impact (White was rated #2 by Ourlads) in the first round. They received in exchange a pick in the second round (which they didn't have), an extra third round pick and an extra first round pick next season. THIS IS AN AMAZING DEAL! If you don't think so- who was available at the #10 position that was worth a 2nd, a 3rd and next year's 1st? Who was available that was worth that cost, that gamble? Im confused...didnt have a second round pick???
jethro_tull Posted April 28, 2017 Author Posted April 28, 2017 Im confused...didnt have a second round pick??? thanks. There was no second involved in the trade corrected.
Chuck Wagon Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) I like Mahomes, would have been fine taking him at 10 but not giving up next years 1st to do it. I think Garrett and maybe Adams & Solomon Thomas were the only guys in the draft worth giving up our next years 1st to get. Then again, we are a treadmill team stuck in the middle and maybe I'd feel different if I believed we were strong QB play away from the Super Bowl, like Chiefs or Texans fans may feel at this point. Edited April 28, 2017 by Chuck Wagon
Jasovon Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 I personally think the only player in this draft worth two first round picks was Miles Garrett. We did well.
LeviF Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 The problem with thought experiments like this is that it's not a one-to-one comparison. Mahomes might well be worth the third and next year's first - to the Chiefs, who have the enviable position of having their playoff-caliber quarterback (some may argue that Alex Smith isn't really a playoff-caliber quarterback, but results speak for themselves) under contract for another two seasons. The Bills have the rather unenviable position of consistently missing the playoffs and not having a playoff-caliber QB. So no, a project (like Mahomes) would not be worth those picks - to the Bills. It's rather possible that neither team got a bad deal here - there isn't always a clear-cut winner and loser on every draft day trade.
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 The problem with thought experiments like this is that it's not a one-to-one comparison. Mahomes might well be worth the third and next year's first - to the Chiefs, who have the enviable position of having their playoff-caliber quarterback (some may argue that Alex Smith isn't really a playoff-caliber quarterback, but results speak for themselves) under contract for another two seasons. The Bills have the rather unenviable position of consistently missing the playoffs and not having a playoff-caliber QB. So no, a project (like Mahomes) would not be worth those picks - to the Bills. It's rather possible that neither team got a bad deal here - there isn't always a clear-cut winner and loser on every draft day trade. on paper, sure. in reality... theres an element of if mahomes is the real deal we got massacred in the trade, and if he flops it was a great play by us.
Chuck Wagon Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 The problem with thought experiments like this is that it's not a one-to-one comparison. Mahomes might well be worth the third and next year's first - to the Chiefs, who have the enviable position of having their playoff-caliber quarterback (some may argue that Alex Smith isn't really a playoff-caliber quarterback, but results speak for themselves) under contract for another two seasons. The Bills have the rather unenviable position of consistently missing the playoffs and not having a playoff-caliber QB. So no, a project (like Mahomes) would not be worth those picks - to the Bills. It's rather possible that neither team got a bad deal here - there isn't always a clear-cut winner and loser on every draft day trade. Right, not to mention the Chiefs and Texans can feel pretty comfortable thinking their pick is going to be in the mid 20s compared to the top of the draft. There's just as good of odds we'll be picking top 8 as we will be closer to 20. There's a big difference in value.
17 Josh Allen Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 I rest my case watch this video with the KC GM. He talks about how he had a gentleman's agreement with our GM a week out before this trade was made. See how this whole thing went down. See why the QB position is the most important commodity there is and how to value it Great video. http://www.chiefs.co...28-51f0998d6c5d
Chuck Wagon Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 on paper, sure. in reality... theres an element of if mahomes is the real deal we got massacred in the trade, and if he flops it was a great play by us. That's the biggest factor in the whole deal. If Mahomes (and to a lesser extent Watson) are great, this is going to be something that makes us feel very bad until we have a QB. If they bust, it's a clear win. The Browns are the biggest example of this right now. Their fans think the new regime is brilliant, but if they are all fired in 3 years as the browns keep spinning through 3-6 win seasons with no QB and Watson is playing Wentz in the Super Bowl, they'll be feeling pretty poorly.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 I like Mahomes, would have been fine taking him at 10 but not giving up next years 1st to do it. I think Garrett and maybe Adams & Solomon Thomas were the only guys in the draft worth giving up our next years 1st to get. Then again, we are a treadmill team stuck in the middle and maybe I'd feel different if I believed we were strong QB play away from the Super Bowl, like Chiefs or Texans fans may feel at this point. What are you talking about?
Chuck Wagon Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 OJ Howard and Patrick Mahomes I wish we would have given up the 3rd we got to move back up to get Howard. Dropping from 10 to 18-19 and getting Howard along with a next years 1st would have felt like a major win. What are you talking about? I would have been fine if we stayed at 10 and took Mahomes, but I wouldn't have sacrificed a next years first to get him.
section122 Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 on paper, sure. in reality... theres an element of if mahomes is the real deal we got massacred in the trade, and if he flops it was a great play by us. Yeah hindsight may change the makeup of this deal for sure. I really like this landing spot for Mahomes. This is one of those situations much like Dak last year that a guy landed in an excellent spot. Even if he excels in KC it is no guarantee he would here or elsewhere. Something I thought of last night. The Chiefs gave up their 1st for a guy they won't be playing this year. They also gave up a 3rd this year and their 1st next year. That is 2 premium picks this year they won't have to improve their team and next year (2018) may be when Mahomes takes over. If the Bills grab their guy next year they are in a very similar situation to KC with a young guy ready to start and extra picks to boot. I don't know if I explained that well enough but basically Mahomes doesn't benefit KC this year but hopefully (for them) he does in 2018 the Bills will have 2 1sts in 2018 to get a qb that can do the same. KC could see a regression next year as they won't be adding a 1st or 3rd round talent to contribute this year so that 1st next year might not be as late as we expect. The last 4 years prior they were 18,23,1, and 11.
Doc Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 Wanted WR and CB in the first 2 rounds. When the 3 top-rated WR's went in the top-9, dropping down was smart. They got a really good prospect. Now they need to draft a WR in round 2.
Chuck Wagon Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 Yeah hindsight may change the makeup of this deal for sure. I really like this landing spot for Mahomes. This is one of those situations much like Dak last year that a guy landed in an excellent spot. Even if he excels in KC it is no guarantee he would here or elsewhere. Something I thought of last night. The Chiefs gave up their 1st for a guy they won't be playing this year. They also gave up a 3rd this year and their 1st next year. That is 2 premium picks this year they won't have to improve their team and next year (2018) may be when Mahomes takes over. If the Bills grab their guy next year they are in a very similar situation to KC with a young guy ready to start and extra picks to boot. I don't know if I explained that well enough but basically Mahomes doesn't benefit KC this year but hopefully (for them) he does in 2018 the Bills will have 2 1sts in 2018 to get a qb that can do the same. KC could see a regression next year as they won't be adding a 1st or 3rd round talent to contribute this year so that 1st next year might not be as late as we expect. The last 4 years prior they were 18,23,1, and 11. I mean, Mahomes could clearly beat out Smith and create a Wentz - Bradford situation for the Chiefs. Or Smith could go down week 3 and Mahomes pulls a Dak or a Brady and the Chiefs roll. It's not exactly a guarantee they'll get nothing out of Mahomes.
NoSaint Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 Yeah hindsight may change the makeup of this deal for sure. I really like this landing spot for Mahomes. This is one of those situations much like Dak last year that a guy landed in an excellent spot. Even if he excels in KC it is no guarantee he would here or elsewhere. that said, we have a good TE, a good OL, a great RB, a potentially great WR1.... if you add mahomes and a WR.... there wouldnt be many excuses to say hed succeed there but not here outside of coaching or dumb luck.
section122 Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 I mean, Mahomes could clearly beat out Smith and create a Wentz - Bradford situation for the Chiefs. Or Smith could go down week 3 and Mahomes pulls a Dak or a Brady and the Chiefs roll. It's not exactly a guarantee they'll get nothing out of Mahomes. For sure but the plan is to have him sit and by all accounts he is raw and needs to sit for a bit. Not saying it couldn't happen I'm just saying without the benefit of hindsight this is how I see it now and why I like the deal so much. that said, we have a good TE, a good OL, a great RB, a potentially great WR1.... if you add mahomes and a WR.... there wouldnt be many excuses to say hed succeed there but not here outside of coaching or dumb luck. For me it is the coaching though. Reid gets a lot of credit for Favre who is one of the comps you hear regularly for Mahomes. It is part of why I can see them liking him so much and also why I feel it is such a good landing spot for him.
LeviF Posted April 28, 2017 Posted April 28, 2017 on paper, sure. in reality... theres an element of if mahomes is the real deal we got massacred in the trade, and if he flops it was a great play by us. True, and hindsight is 20/20 and all that, but I can't help but think Mahomes is in a much better situation development- and coaching-wise than he would be in Buffalo. Maybe that's the loser mentality but I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that.
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