Video proof GM Doug in charge of answering phones

[Paulus]

 

Doesn't make any sense based upon what's being said at OBD. Only the outside noise from media would have anyone believing this is the case.

Exactly, one thing learned after Rex's departure is the Bills will not be leaking stuff to the media. It has all been speculation thus far, with the exception of dealing with other teams.

[What a Tuel]

Just reading Carucci's article infers a bias against Whaley. Whaley really pissed the Buffalo News off badly. I mean read some of this, Carucci has an axe to grind. This is all from 2 articles linked below. Like give it a rest.

 

McDermott simply didn't see anyone at the position that convinced him needed to be on the roster this year, even as a backup........... McDermott is content to get by with whatever Taylor can offer as a thrower and a runner,

In only the first year of his contract and with full authority over the Bills' football operation, McDermott feels confident that he will be given the time and patience of owners Terry and Kim Pegula to get the quarterback he wants. That doesn't necessarily mean McDermott has given up on the 2017 season......

What it means is McDermott doesn't see the wisdom in committing to an extra contract year, which is worth $13-plus million and is guaranteed against injury, while Watkins is still recovering from foot surgery. ........General Manager Doug Whaley is the one attached to Watkins, and he no longer has the authority to make this call.

It never would have happened if General Manager Doug Whaley was calling the shots. That is no longer the case. It hasn't been the case since Sean McDermott signed on to become the Bills' head coach. This is McDermott's show all the way. And he long was looking at trading down in order to add picks.

McDermott wanted more draft capital and he was able to utilize his close relationship with Chiefs coach Andy Reid to make it happen. Whaley has never shown a desire to trade down. He's the guy whose biggest draft-day move was trading up to make wide receiver Sammy Watkins the fourth overall choice in 2014. Given Watkins' durability issues, which figure to discourage the Bills from picking up his fifth-year option by the May 2 deadline, that's among the questionable decisions that have put Whaley's job in jeopardy.

The Bills had previously been more willing to take character risks, but that has changed dramatically with McDermott in charge.

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/28/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-first-round-nfl-draft-trade-smart/

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/29/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-second-round-nfl-draft-quarterback-doesnt-figure-plans/

Edited April 29, 2017 by What a Tuel

[NoSaint]

Most of my favorite posters for scoops or just rational/logical thoughts seem to think Whaleys demise is crazy talk... but it sure feels like something isn't right behind the scenes. I'm not going to say he's definitely gone but if nothing else he feels like his power is very diminished (even from a low power position as GMs go)

[Thurman#1]

watch this video with the KC GM. He talks about how he had a gentleman's agreement with our GM a week out before this trade was made. See how this whole thing went down. See why the QB position is the most important commodity there is and how to value it

 

Great video.

 

http://www.chiefs.com/media-center/videos/John_Dorsey_Confident_in_Choice_of_Patrick_Mahomes_II/32100dc7-55ac-476f-a128-51f0998d6c5d

 

 

 

I went and listened, expecting to hear proof, and there was absolutely nothing.

 

Only thing you've proved here is that confirmation bias is alive and well and living in your head on this issue.

 

Here's what was said, word for word, "I’d been working about five or six different deals. I started this one probably about five days ago. And Doug and I just talked through the whole thing. We talked every day and then we talked before the draft, ‘do you still agree?’ He says, ‘Yes, I still agree.’ So we had some sort of gentleman’s agreement."

 

That's it.

 

This doesn't even begin to address who was in charge in Buffalo. All it says is that Whaley was making phone calls.

 

In my long career in business, government and academia there have been hundreds of times when bosses told me to go make phone calls and find out what kinds of deals or possible agreements were out there. Hundreds. And then told me to take or reject the deals or negotiate more based on what I told them. I wasn't in charge but I was the contact guy. Being the contact guy absolutely does not prove that you're in charge. It simply doesn't.

 

Sorry, but you've proved absolutely nothing here about whether Whaley is in charge. You ought to look inside yourself, because what you assumed here is only what you wanted to be true, not at all what the evidence shows.

Exactly, one thing learned after Rex's departure is the Bills will not be leaking stuff to the media. It has all been speculation thus far, with the exception of dealing with other teams.

 

 

No, the Bills scouts expecting to be fired was from a source, not speculation. And that sure tends to back up Whaley's lack of power.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Mountain Man]

all rumors. I heard it from Terry's own mouth a few weeks ago. Doug is not going anywhere he just signed him to a 4 year contract. Stop embarrassing your self. Love the hate by Bills media & Buffalo News but it's just wishful thinking.

 

Rex was signed to a long term deal too.....

[Thurman#1]

Just reading Carucci's article infers a bias against Whaley. Whaley really pissed the Buffalo News off badly. I mean read some of this, Carucci has an axe to grind. This is all from 2 articles linked below. Like give it a rest.

 

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/28/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-first-round-nfl-draft-trade-smart/

 

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/29/vic-caruccis-3-bills-thoughts-second-round-nfl-draft-quarterback-doesnt-figure-plans/

 

 

This doesn't show an ax to grind. Only that he believes it.

 

And like it or not, the News guys have a lot better sources than we do.

 

Doesn't prove he's right, but it's likely.

It is? How many times has he traded up? How many times has he traded down? What's the league-wide average?

 

 

How many times has Whaley traded down in a situation where he pretty much knew he wouldn't get the guy he would've picked in the earlier spot?

 

His most famous trade-down, the Manuel deal, was one where he traded down only because he thought he could get the same player in the later spot. And he was right.

 

They weren't going to pick Tre'Davious White at #10, were they?

 

This deal is very different from Whaley's M.O.

 

Rex was signed to a long term deal too.....

 

 

Yup, Rex, Pat LaFontaine, Regier ... Remember Tim Murray's 2016 contract extension?

 

It's one thing I like about Pegula. He's willing to throw away money if it gets him out of a deal that would hold him back if new evidence comes in to show him he made a mistake.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Thurman#1

[HappyDays]

I don't feel too good about a first year NFL head coach trading up and making need picks before we have any sense of his abilities as a scout. Trading up is the mark of someone who thinks he's smarter than everyone else in the room, which is a poor mindset at the draft. Maybe Tre White changes our culture, or maybe he's already hit his ceiling after 4 years in college. Maybe Zay Jones becomes a great #2 for us, or maybe his college production was inflated by the system. Maybe Dawkins becomes our franchise RT, or maybe some scouts were right that he could only be a G in the NFL.

 

The more picks you make in the draft the better your chances of finding good players. It makes no sense to me you would throw away picks because you're just so sure about these guys. What if we have another Ragland scenario? That's the kind of thing you can't predict. It's supposedly a deep draft and we have a lo of holes so I would have preferred we let the board come to us.

[nucci]

 

 

This doesn't show an ax to grind. Only that he believes it.

 

And like it or not, the News guys have a lot better sources than we do.

 

Doesn't prove he's right, but it's likely.

 

 

How many times has Whaley traded down in a situation where he pretty much knew he wouldn't get the guy he would've picked in the earlier spot?

 

His most famous trade-down, the Manuel deal, was one where he traded down only because he thought he could get the same player in the later spot. And he was right.

 

They weren't going to pick Tre'Davious White at #10, were they?

 

This deal is very different from Whaley's M.O.

 

 

Yup, Rex, Pat LaFontaine, Regier ... Remember Tim Murray's 2016 contract extension?

 

It's one thing I like about Pegula. He's willing to throw away money if it gets him out of a deal that would hold him back if new evidence comes in to show him he made a mistake.

Can we hope he stops making mistakes?

[PromoTheRobot]

I can't believe there is anyone out there who doesn't believe this.

 

I can't believe people who switch back and forth depending if they like a pick or trade.

[34-78-83]

Speaking of collective efforts, this board has become collectively less intelligent with a much higher frequency of illogical, poorly thought out, massively unlikely to be anywhere near accurate takes. It sure makes it harder to sift through the crap to find good info or stimulating, logicly sensible discussion.

[Eric Moulds on my A**]

Speaking of collective efforts, this board has become collectively less intelligent with a much higher frequency of illogical, poorly thought out, massively unlikely to be anywhere near accurate takes. It sure makes it harder to sift through the crap to find good info or stimulating, logicly sensible discussion.

But I've got the Luminosity app.

[What a Tuel]

 

 

 

I went and listened, expecting to hear proof, and there was absolutely nothing.

 

Only thing you've proved here is that confirmation bias is alive and well and living in your head on this issue.

 

Here's what was said, word for word, "I’d been working about five or six different deals. I started this one probably about five days ago. And Doug and I just talked through the whole thing. We talked every day and then we talked before the draft, ‘do you still agree?’ He says, ‘Yes, I still agree.’ So we had some sort of gentleman’s agreement."

 

That's it.

 

This doesn't even begin to address who was in charge in Buffalo. All it says is that Whaley was making phone calls.

 

In my long career in business, government and academia there have been hundreds of times when bosses told me to go make phone calls and find out what kinds of deals or possible agreements were out there. Hundreds. And then told me to take or reject the deals or negotiate more based on what I told them. I wasn't in charge but I was the contact guy. Being the contact guy absolutely does not prove that you're in charge. It simply doesn't.

 

Sorry, but you've proved absolutely nothing here about whether Whaley is in charge. You ought to look inside yourself, because what you assumed here is only what you wanted to be true, not at all what the evidence shows.

 

 

No, the Bills scouts expecting to be fired was from a source, not speculation. And that sure tends to back up Whaley's lack of power.

 

Ok, but somehow you have "proven" that McDermott is in charge? Because he gets up in front of the cameras? Isn't that the same thing as "making phone calls"?

 

Either way, I believe it is a collaborative effort between the two guys (as it should be) and all this "This is McDermotts show now" is bull crap.

 

This doesn't show an ax to grind. Only that he believes it.

 

And like it or not, the News guys have a lot better sources than we do.

 

Doesn't prove he's right, but it's likely.

 

You think it is necessary to mention that he believes Whaley isn't in charge anymore 6+ times (not including passive aggressively saying "McDermott thought this, and McDermott thought that") in two articles?

 

The guy is clearly salty. If he wasn't, it would have been mentioned once at the top of the article, and the rest of the article would have been about the draft.

[JohnC]

even if they want to make a change going in -- i think tpegs might be swayed reading the high grades and strongly positive feedback this morning.

I don't know whether Whaley is staying or leaving. My impression is that his authority has been somewhat diminished. That's my opinion and far from being a declarative statement. Where I disagree with you are your comments regarding high draft grades and immediate feedback. Draft grades except with illogical drafting and weird picks as was done by Al Davis are for the most part basically meaningless. It is going to take some time to get an accurate assessment on how well the draft turned out.

 

If Pegula is going to let Whaley go, or if not, he probably already has his mind made up and waiting for a more opportune time. If Whaley's authority is eroded or will be more eroded Pegula already has his mind made up on that issue. Going back to my original point the draft grades will have little impact on Pegula's thinking about how he wants to structure and staff the organization.

[somnus00]

You don't understand.

 

Logic 'round these parts is that when a "dumb" decision is made, Whaley is in charge and needs to go.

 

When a good move is made, Whaley didn't make the decision because he isn't in charge and will be gone in a week.

 

TBD logic (such as it is).

[DrDawkinstein]

Welp, that wraps the draft! Now we'll see if any moves are made on Whaley.

[NoSaint]

I don't know whether Whaley is staying or leaving. My impression is that his authority has been somewhat diminished. That's my opinion and far from being a declarative statement. Where I disagree with you are your comments regarding high draft grades and immediate feedback. Draft grades except with illogical drafting and weird picks as was done by Al Davis are for the most part basically meaningless. It is going to take some time to get an accurate assessment on how well the draft turned out.

 

If Pegula is going to let Whaley go, or if not, he probably already has his mind made up and waiting for a more opportune time. If Whaley's authority is eroded or will be more eroded Pegula already has his mind made up on that issue. Going back to my original point the draft grades will have little impact on Pegula's thinking about how he wants to structure and staff the organization.

I agree they mean little

 

I wonder though if he would feel comfortable firing a guy right after a well reviewed draft. I do think he reads the news and cares about the opinions out there... but would it effect his decision?

Welp, that wraps the draft! Now we'll see if any moves are made on Whaley.

Still udfa action. I'd venture if it happens it's a week or so out

[nucci]

Does anyone think McDermott made the trades and not Whaley?

[Bill_with_it]

I agree they mean little

 

I wonder though if he would feel comfortable firing a guy right after a well reviewed draft. I do think he reads the news and cares about the opinions out there... but would it effect his decision?

 

Still udfa action. I'd venture if it happens it's a week or so out

Whos to say Whaley had any inclination to take the players and or start the trades that occurred? If he didnid say he did fairly well. Whoever was in charge managed to plug alot of holes on a sinking ship.

[JohnC]

Does anyone think McDermott made the trades and not Whaley?

The trade strategy was worked out in advance. It was a collaboration with McDermott making the final decision. Looking back the qb examination was at the later stages a ruse. It was a show pony charade in which the organization made a decision prior to the draft that they weren't going to use a high pick for a qb in this draft class.

 

Did Whaley and the scouting department do the grunt work in scouting the prospects? Obviously so. But in my view it was McDermott who made the selections with consultations of course. He was the person pulling the lever. If you look at the players selected all of them fit the squeaky clean profile that the wrestling coach is attracted to. Not one of the players selected was character challenged player or a player who had work ethic questions.

 

In this class you won't find a lazy and under-achieving prospect like Adolphus Washington or a player with a history of drug use such as Seantrel Henderson or an immature but talented player such as Dareus or a thuggish player such as IK Enemkpali who Rex fawned over after he cold cocked the starting qb in the locker room.

 

Clearly, Whaley had a more expansive view of who he was willing to consider whereas McDermott has a stricter code of conduct and character test when selecting players who he wants in his locker room. It's obvious to me that McDermott has persuaded the frustrated owner that in the long run his approach will prove to be successful especially in comparison to the prior looser approach that resulted in only continued failure.

 

Whether Whaley stays or goes (I believe he will be let go or have a diminished role) he will not be empowered as a conventional GM. If he stays he will be basically in charge of the scouting department. Based on actions rather than company platitudes it is obvious to me that McDermott is the new sheriff in town.

[GunnerBill]

There is clearly something afoot or else why would McDermott not just say "look Doug is our General Manager"?

 

My personal sense is that Whaley will be retained by the organisation and given a "promotion" which gets him further away from the team building. You can easily envisage a Vice President responsible for the Personnel Department type title where he deals with the administration side of the personnel operation an a new GM is left to focus purely on the player side of the job.

 

Alternatively he could have been so against Tyrod remaining that he actually said "you know what guys that is not my vision for a team it makes sense we go our own way but I am not going to leave you high and dry 6 weeks before the draft let's get through that and then I will move on." Doug Whaley would walk into a Director of Pro Personnel job in the NFL tomorrow if he was on the market and wanted to work.