1st Ammendment NoMas Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 IF the top QBs are so great why would any team trade away the chance to draft them? You could offer me 10 1st round picks and I wouldn't trade the chance to draft Manning Rogers or Brady. Every team had 5 chances and some had 6 to draft Brady, 23 teams passed on Rogers and only Manning was a true top can't miss pick. By this logic we could have Rogers or Brady with either first round pick next year. Sometimes teams just get lucky and hit the lotto or they know something everyone else didn't. The Pats and Pack are two of them. Maybe Peterman is our lotto ticket. We'll know soon enough. You must be new to the NFL. Trade ups for QBs in the 1st are common. Just in the past few years you have teams trading up for RGIII, Wentz, and Bridgewater. Add Mahomes and Watson to that list.
BillsFan17 Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 That's exactly how they ended up with Losman. They figured they could trade up for Big Ben but failed to find a trade partner and people said maybe you don't need to trade up because JP Losman looks like he could be among the top prospects. I remember watching a whole special on ESPN about how JP was just as good as Manning and Rivers. He must have had a really good agent!Losman had a full tool box, but just lacked it between the ears. Plus, Wilfork putting an elbow to his knee didnt help. Nor the did the coaches obsession with Captain Check Down Trent Edwards. How easily people forget how much Losman was involved in that big FOUR in that class. You aren't always going to get it right. Like i have said, you don't have to get Elway. You can get Kelly or Marino, just need to avoid the Blacklidge and O'Brein's. Moreover, just as easily as you point out not being able to trade up for Big Ben in 2004, is just as easy for me to point out more recent transactions that saw two teams trade from the late 20's on up to get their QBs.
Boatdrinks Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 Browns have 2 possible top 10 picks and the Jets are also terrible and need a QB. We will be lucky to get the 3rd best QB next year. Not very exciting Back in '04, the Steelers drafted the third (best) QB off the board. He turned out to be the best of the bunch. No one knows. Way too early to complain about the 2018 draft.
Thurmal34 Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 It's either take a QB every draft or it isn't. Take a freaking position one time.
papazoid Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 the TT led bills offense scored the 7th most points in the league last year. "IF" the ryan led bills defense had given up the 7th fewest points last year..... we would have made the playoffs and the conversation about TT would be a lot different.
Saxum Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 the TT led bills offense scored the 7th most points in the league last year. "IF" the ryan led bills defense had given up the 7th fewest points last year..... we would have made the playoffs and the conversation about TT would be a lot different. Rex Ryan led both offense and defense but do not let facts prevent you from making irrational points in your rant.
buffaloboyinATL Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 Who was this sure fire franchise QB that you think we passed on in this draft? I am honestly not sure if there was a franchise quarterback in the entire batch this year. We could have had any of them except for Trubisky, so which one do you believe we should have taken at 10?
BillsFan17 Posted May 6, 2017 Posted May 6, 2017 the TT led bills offense scored the 7th most points in the league last year. "IF" the ryan led bills defense had given up the 7th fewest points last year..... we would have made the playoffs and the conversation about TT would be a lot different. So Tyrod was responsible for Shady and TD Mike? We had 29 rushing TDS last year as a team. Taylor accounted for six of those. If you combine his awful 17 through the air with his six on the ground, making 23 total TDs accounted for... we would be at a 23/23 split of TDs by backs and TDs by TT. Do stop with the Tyrod lead anything. The guy was masked by a phenomenal running game. Sure, I'll give you he contributed to the overall stats on the run game, but this isn't highschool, or college, I need a QB not a gimmick. And for the "doesn't matter how the points are scored" crows. Newsflash, it does matter when you try to act like Tyrod was responsible for said production. Especially considering, with his total TD production, he still doesn't line up with true franchise QBs.
JM2009 Posted May 7, 2017 Posted May 7, 2017 So Tyrod was responsible for Shady and TD Mike? We had 29 rushing TDS last year as a team. Taylor accounted for six of those. If you combine his awful 17 through the air with his six on the ground, making 23 total TDs accounted for... we would be at a 23/23 split of TDs by backs and TDs by TT. Do stop with the Tyrod lead anything. The guy was masked by a phenomenal running game. Sure, I'll give you he contributed to the overall stats on the run game, but this isn't highschool, or college, I need a QB not a gimmick. And for the "doesn't matter how the points are scored" crows. Newsflash, it does matter when you try to act like Tyrod was responsible for said production. Especially considering, with his total TD production, he still doesn't line up with true franchise QBs. Newsflash: Look at the last game with EJ. Newsflash: Taylor doesn't turn the ball over.
oldmanfan Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 The title of this thread is inaccurate. Drafting a QB in 2018 has nothing to do with getting a franchise QB, as the failures of many first round QBs throughout history will attest.
BillsFan17 Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 Newsflash: Look at the last game with EJ. Newsflash: Taylor doesn't turn the ball over.zAnd exactly what do those news flashes have to do with the point I was making?
MPT Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 You could offer me 10 1st round picks and I wouldn't trade the chance to draft Manning Rogers or Brady. You wouldn't need to trade anything to draft Rodgers or Brady. If those two were in next year's draft, we would be able to draft either one without trading anything. Rodgers went 24th. Brady, obviously, went in the 6th round. The point is, teams pass on franchise quarterbacks all the time. And they also accept draft trades from other teams all the time. It just depends which team values which players. You certainly don't know that our future franchise quarterback will be impossible to acquire next year. The Browns accepted trades from other teams this year while passing on QB's until Kizer even though they are arguably the most QB-needy team. Maybe the Jets pick up Kaepernick and the Browns and 49ers decide Kizer and Beathard are their guys. You don't know what's going to happen between now and next year's draft, but it's better to position yourself as well as possible instead of resigning to the possibility that you won't get exactly what you want.
TheFunPolice Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) You wouldn't need to trade anything to draft Rodgers or Brady. If those two were in next year's draft, we would be able to draft either one without trading anything. Rodgers went 24th. Brady, obviously, went in the 6th round. The point is, teams pass on franchise quarterbacks all the time. And they also accept draft trades from other teams all the time. It just depends which team values which players. You certainly don't know that our future franchise quarterback will be impossible to acquire next year. The Browns accepted trades from other teams this year while passing on QB's until Kizer even though they are arguably the most QB-needy team. Maybe the Jets pick up Kaepernick and the Browns and 49ers decide Kizer and Beathard are their guys. You don't know what's going to happen between now and next year's draft, but it's better to position yourself as well as possible instead of resigning to the possibility that you won't get exactly what you want. I get what you're saying, and my personal preference is always to find the Rogers/Brady type if I can (i.e. not the #1 overall guy) My example was that if "the next Manning" type guy is entering the draft and some team that won 3 or 4 games is sitting there with the #1 pick, that team is NOT trading that chance. Mahomes, RGIII, Wentz, Bridewater, etc. are not the same caliber of prospect. If next year's class is a something like that group then I'd rather stand pat and hope to find one, rather than trade, to be honest. If someone billed as the "Next Manning!" is coming out no amount of picks would ever be enough. The team with the #1 pick is taking him. And Bills tried to trade up to get him and failed. That was 13 years ago. That's only because the Steelers didn't realize they had to accept the trade because we wanted to trade and that's all it takes. Some on here act like the draft is a market where items have posted prices and if you pay you get the item. Sometimes the item isn't for sale. At any price. You must be new to the NFL. Trade ups for QBs in the 1st are common. Just in the past few years you have teams trading up for RGIII, Wentz, and Bridgewater. Since I'm a bit new to football and my head is all full of fluff and dreams, I decided to look up the trade up you mentioned for RG III. The Rams moved back 4 SPOTS from #2 to #6 overall in the first. To swap picks and drop 4 slots they received: 2012 1st rounder #6 overall (the swapped pick) 2012 2nd rounder #29 overall 2013 1st rounder 2014 1st rounder That's a high price, and remember: RG III was not Andrew Luck, who went 1 pick before. That's to drop 4 slots. What's the price to drop from #2 overall to something like #15-20? Probably another 1st or a player. Especially if these upcoming QB prospects are so amazing. Edited May 8, 2017 by TheFunPolice
BillsFan17 Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 A lot of strange things can happen in the course of an NFL season. Let's say for instance, the Rams have another down year and end up with the first overall pick, are they taking a QB? What happens if say, Winston gets hurt and the Buccs go 2-14 and have the first overall pick, are they taking a QB? What if Kizer comes in midway through a very dissapointing Browns season, shows a lot of promise, and the still end up with the worst record, are they going to take a QB? I understand the forgone conclusion is that the worst team will not trade out, but without knowing who the worst team will be it's hard to make that call. Furthermore, as much as i like the top guys, sometimes they aren't always the best in the class. We all know Darnold Rosen Allen Yet, as other posters, my self included have pointed out. Rudolph Falk Browning Stidham, etc... Are all guys where a GM can cut his teeth in this league by evaluating beyond the top blue chip guys.
nickrage Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 Mahommes or Watson becoming an elite franchise type QB and our guy in '18 will haunt us more. If thats how it plays out. Not saying it will or wont. Just another big what if
NewMexBills Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 Bills will be fine in 2018 if taylor plays well, this year feels like a gamble, i think it helps this year
BringBackFlutie Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 I hope that all these people saying we were fools to pass up on the best CB in a strong CB class also support the Sammy Watkins pick.
TheFunPolice Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 It's true that it matters who has the #1 pick... If it's the Rams I think they take a QB #1. But the Bucs (or a team like them) would be more interesting. They would probably do business, but it would cost a fortune if there was an Andrew Luck type prospect sitting there. The bidding war in that type of scenario would be fun to watch and I'll bet the price would be insane. The RGIII trade to move down 4 spots netted the Rams 2 1sts and a 2nd, not counting the swapped 1st. I would think going up to #1 overall, given that the QB sitting there was the top prospect in years, would cost at least 3 1sts and two 2nds, not counting whatever 1st you swap to move up.
MPT Posted May 8, 2017 Posted May 8, 2017 I get what you're saying, and my personal preference is always to find the Rogers/Brady type if I can (i.e. not the #1 overall guy) My example was that if "the next Manning" type guy is entering the draft and some team that won 3 or 4 games is sitting there with the #1 pick, that team is NOT trading that chance. Mahomes, RGIII, Wentz, Bridewater, etc. are not the same caliber of prospect. If next year's class is a something like that group then I'd rather stand pat and hope to find one, rather than trade, to be honest. If someone billed as the "Next Manning!" is coming out no amount of picks would ever be enough. The team with the #1 pick is taking him. I agree with all of that. I just think next year's draft will have a few guys that are between a "Manning" and a "Wentz." That is, teams with high picks won't automatically draft these guys but they would still require a hefty ransom to trade their pick. If the Bills like one of those guys, I'd rather they be in a position to go and get him without crippling our future. With two first round picks, that becomes a lot easier.
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