I'll leave this list here for the non-QB in the 1st people

[Reed83HOF]

Here's the trouble with the "trade a couple firsts NEXT YEAR" idea when it comes to QB....

 

If I thought the next Peyton Manning was sitting there and I could pick him, there's pretty much nothing you could trade me to make me pass up a guy who could take me to and win me Super Bowls and give me 15+ years of HOF type play.

 

3 1st rounders isn't worth it. Hell, 5 wouldn't be either. After all, as we so often hear, most drafts don't have ANY good QB prospects at all. So when would I get mine?

 

Never; just go find a backup in Baltimore or Jacksonville, the CFL, Tampa Bay or Cincinnati

[TheFunPolice]

 

Never; just go find a backup in Baltimore or Jacksonville, the CFL, Tampa Bay or Cincinnati

 

Exactly. There is basically one way to get the "next big thing" at QB: get lucky and bottom out at the right time.

 

Sure you can find guys later in the draft. Look at Brady. Look at Dak last year. You just have to be right and get the right guy.

[mannc]

 

Exactly. There is basically one way to get the "next big thing" at QB: get lucky and bottom out at the right time.

 

Sure you can find guys later in the draft. Look at Brady. Look at Dak last year. You just have to be right and get the right guy.

In your first sentence, you say that bottoming out and getting lucky is the only way to get the proverbial Franchise QB, but in the next sentence, you give two examples of teams that found one without doing any such thing. You could also have mentioned the Steelers, Saints, Packers, Redskins, Ravens and Raiders as teams that did not have to "bottom out and get lucky" to find a franchise QB, thus completely obliterating your initial point.

[Reed83HOF]

 

Exactly. There is basically one way to get the "next big thing" at QB: get lucky and bottom out at the right time.

 

Sure you can find guys later in the draft. Look at Brady. Look at Dak last year. You just have to be right and get the right guy.

 

I have taken some flack for this, but I love what Cleveland has done (provided the FO & scouts can hold up their end of the bargain and Haslam keeps his hands off). This is a ton of talent in this draft for them...

[BarleyNY]

Looks like McD will be driving the bus on this draft so I'm a lot less certain of how the Bills will play it. It'll be interesting. Anything goes as far as strategy and players/positions being targeted.

[mannc]

 

I have taken some flack for this, but I love what Cleveland has done (provided the FO & scouts can hold up their end of the bargain and Haslam keeps his hands off). This is a ton of talent in this draft for them...

I agree. It will be a fun night for Browns fans. They deserve it.

 

Does anyone think the Browns might actually be ok with going into 2017 with Cody Kessler as their starter? I thought he played pretty well before he got hurt.

[mead107]

I will be happy with who the Bills pick no matter what.

Can anyone else go with that.

[TheFunPolice]

In your first sentence, you say that bottoming out and getting lucky is the only way to get the proverbial Franchise QB, but in the next sentence, you give two examples of teams that found one without doing any such thing. You could also have mentioned the Steelers, Saints, Packers, Redskins, Ravens and Raiders as teams that did not have to "bottom out and get lucky" to find a franchise QB, thus completely obliterating your initial point.

 

I could have worded it better.

 

What I meant by the "next best thing" at QB is the prospect that everyone is dazzled by and you hear non-stop talk about before draft day.... the "Next Manning or Brady" as billed before the draft. Nobody is giving that guy up I don't think so you better have the top pick.

Edited April 26, 2017 by TheFunPolice

[Reed83HOF]

I agree. It will be a fun night for Browns fans. They deserve it.

 

Does anyone think the Browns might actually be ok with going into 2017 with Cody Kessler as their starter? I thought he played pretty well before he got hurt.

 

It was a good way to speed up the rebuild process; I would have dreaded with the thought of 0-16, but hell we wouldn't be the first anymore. Of course the downside is; there is no way you can pay all of these players if they all turn out really good; but you can still make more trades as they get near the end of their rookie contracts and you really hedge against busts...

[Kirby Jackson]

 

The hype about RG3 was always that - HYPE. BS the media was stirring up to make the draft exciting, and Redskins owner Dan Snyder was just the sort of fan-turned-owner idiot to fall for it.

 

Andrew Luck was the highest rated prospect since BEFORE Manning - you have to go back to Elway to find a higher rated QB prospect.

 

RG3 was not remotely ever in Luck's class as a prospect.

This is easy to say now but RG3 was behind only Luck by certain services (dating back to Manning or Elway). I don't have it in front of me but believe Scouts Inc. was one of them. Mayock, Jaws and Cosell all preferred RG3 (at least at one point). The point is that he had a VERY high draft grade. It wasn't just hype, people thought highly of him.

[Reed83HOF]

 

I could have worded it better.

 

What I meant by the "next best thing" at QB is the prospect that everyone is dazzled by and you hear non-stop talk about before draft day.... the "Next Manning or Brady" as billed before the draft. Nobody is giving that guy up I don't think so you better have the top pick.

 

That's what I was basically saying to Kirby. No one is going to give up that player. If the Browns took Trubisky and Darnold/Rosen hava a grade close to Luck/Manning - no way they could pass that up. They'd have to flip Mitch...

 

You either have to be unbelievably lucky or make a move

[Kirby Jackson]

 

That's what I was basically saying to Kirby. No one is going to give up that player. If the Browns took Trubisky and Darnold/Rosen hava a grade close to Luck/Manning - no way they could pass that up. They'd have to flip Mitch...

 

You either have to be unbelievably lucky or make a move

What if Trubisky looks like Mariota as a rookie? Or Dak? Or Wentz? Or Jameis? Where would it make sense for them to hold Trubisky and sell the pick? There is a level of play that will force them to pass on QB.

[mannc]

What if Trubisky looks like Mariota as a rookie? Or Dak? Or Wentz? Or Jameis? Where would it make sense for them to hold Trubisky and sell the pick? There is a level of play that will force them to pass on QB.

If Trubisky (or whomever) looks that good, they won't be sitting on the first overall pick.

[Kirby Jackson]

If Trubisky (or whomever) looks that good, they won't be sitting on the first overall pick.

They are a random exception. They could easily get promising QB play and win 3 games. Mariota is a perfect (and recent) example.

[JohnC]

It wasn't Wilson. He was taken in round 3. Cousins went in round 4. I think Nix opted for a DB from Wake Forest in that round.

The point I made on Wilson was that he was available for us in the third round. Nix moved up in the third round to acquire a track receiver who didn't come close to working out. It was rumored that Nix was going to take a qb, maybe Cousins, but Washington beat us out in the round. In addition, the Bills could have drafted Carr or Bridgewater with trade downs in the first but this stolid organization didn't seize the opportunity to acquire a qb. It was also reported that Whaley ranked Prescott higher than Cardale and waited until the fourth round pick to take a qb. Instead of taking Prescott in the third, who he was interested in, he instead took a raw and lazy DT from Ohio State.

 

The point in listing the above qbs is highlighting the fact that this organization has had plenty of opportunities to select good prospects at reasonable spots in the draft. This organization that hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb in over twenty years didn't act with any sense of urgency resulting in an inadequate staffing at the most important position.

 

Now there are loud rumblings that Whaley's job is in jeopardy. His job is in jeopardy because based on his lackluster performance it should be in jeopardy.

[jeffismagic]

 

Never; just go find a backup in Baltimore or Jacksonville, the CFL, Tampa Bay or Cincinnati

 

We started the backup from Cinci for many years. Then to try the backup QB from Baltimore. I say we get the backup from Pittsburgh next. They have good QB scouts and are looking at Mahomes and Dobbs this year.

[JM2009]

Sal Maiorana‏Verified account @salmaiorana 2h2 hours ago

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Sal Maiorana Retweeted War Is For Profit

Kelly? What is the fascination with Kelly? There isn't another fan base in the NFL clamoring for him. I'm not even sure he'll be drafted

Sal Maiorana‏Verified account @salmaiorana 2h2 hours ago

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Sal Maiorana Retweeted Iván Llano

No. The last place Kelly needs to be is buffalo. I hope he gets a shot somewhere but he needs to make his own mark, not follow his uncle

[mannc]

The point I made on Wilson was that he was available for us in the third round. Nix moved up in the third round to acquire a track receiver who didn't come close to working out. It was rumored that Nix was going to take a qb, maybe Cousins, but Washington beat us out in the round. In addition, the Bills could have drafted Carr or Bridgewater with trade downs in the first but this stolid organization didn't seize the opportunity to acquire a qb. It was also reported that Whaley ranked Prescott higher than Cardale and waited until the fourth round pick to take a qb. Instead of taking Prescott in the third, who he was interested in, he instead took a raw and lazy DT from Ohio State.

 

The point in listing the above qbs is highlighting the fact that this organization has had plenty of opportunities to select good prospects at reasonable spots in the draft. This organization that hasn't had a legitimate franchise qb in over twenty years didn't act with any sense of urgency resulting in an inadequate staffing at the most important position.

 

Now there are loud rumblings that Whaley's job is in jeopardy. His job is in jeopardy because based on his lackluster performance it should be in jeopardy.

John, you are absolutely correct that under Nix/Whaley, the Bills have failed to draft quality QBs at a time when the team was in desperate need. Passing on Cousins and Russell Wilson is the most egregious example of this. I don't buy the "everyone else passed too" argument. Sure, other teams should have pulled the trigger, too (Jacksonville passed on R. Wilson for a punter) but few other teams were as QB-needy as the Bills were at that time. And then, the next year, they used the 16th overall pick on a guy most teams graded at the end of the third round. (McShay this week said one team had a sixth round grade on EJ--as a TE!)

 

I don't think its fair, though, to criticize the Bills for failing to trade up for Carr. We have no idea what it would have cost or whether Oakland would have made the deal. And I'm certainly shedding no tears over losing out on Teddy Bridgewater. Although it was outrageous that Whaley traded away two fourth round picks to move up for Ragland, I think it's premature to complain about the failure to nab Dak because we did at least take a shot with Cardale a few picks later and, who knows, Cardale might turn out OK.

Edited April 27, 2017 by mannc

[JohnC]

John, you are absolutely correct that under Nix/Whaley, the Bills have failed to draft quality QBs at a time when the team was in desperate need. Passing on Cousins and Russell Wilson is the most egregious example of this. I don't buy the "everyone else passed too" argument. Sure, other teams should have pulled the trigger, too (Jacksonville passed on R. Wilson for a punter) but few other teams were as QB-needy as the Bills were at that time. And then, the next year, they used the 16th overall pick on a guy most teams graded at the end of the third round. (McShay this week said one team had a sixth round grade on EJ--as a TE!)

 

I don't think its fair, though, to criticize the Bills for failing to trade up for Carr. We have no idea what it would have cost or whether Oakland would have made the deal. And I'm certainly shedding no tears over losing out on Teddy Bridgewater. Although it was outrageous that Whaley traded away two fourth round picks to move up for Ragland, I think it's premature to complain about the failure to nab Dak because we did at least take a shot with Cardale a few picks later and, who knows, Cardale might turn out OK.

With respect to the highlighted paragraph let me start with the Carr scenario. What the Bills should have done is not trade up after the first round but trade down in the first round and then acquire Carr and pocketing additional pick/s. With respect to Dak it was reported that Whaley rated him higher than Cardale. Instead he took a DT who was not known for his work habits and effort. My point in the prior post is that when an organization has a desperate need to upgrade a position that has been inadequately staffed for more than two full decades then it should exhibit far more urgency in addressing the issue. The real issue is not debating who is the better prospect as much as it is my criticism that this organization has not made it a priority to resolve the qb void. Dithering doesn't solve a problem---it makes it worse.

[Reed83HOF]

With respect to the highlighted paragraph let me start with the Carr scenario. What the Bills should have done is not trade up after the first round but trade down in the first round and then acquire Carr and pocketing additional pick/s. With respect to Dak it was reported that Whaley rated him higher than Cardale. Instead he took a DT who was not known for his work habits and effort. My point in the prior post is that when an organization has a desperate need to upgrade a position that has been inadequately staffed for more than two full decades then it should exhibit far more urgency in addressing the issue. The real issue is not debating who is the better prospect as much as it is my criticism that this organization has not made it a priority to resolve the qb void. Dithering doesn't solve a problem---it makes it worse.

 

You have a lot of great posts; this one may be one of your best!