I'll leave this list here for the non-QB in the 1st people

[oldmanfan]

Tryrod is just not going to cut it. He's a great athlete and an OK qb. I want more than than. I'm guessing the Bills do take a qb if Trubisky, Watson, or Mahomes are there at 10. Why is a terrible move to take a QB at 10, but it's perfectly fine to take one at 18 - 32? If you target a qb as an NFL caliber starting QB, then take him when you can.

If you believe he's NFL caliber.

[billz4life820]

 

Except what you just said wasn't true. Our offense did enough in most those games to win, and the D lost the game for us, including Oakland where we were up big before the D gave up 4 straight TD drives.

 

that is not true... if our offense did enough in the oakland game they would have not given the ball straight back to the Oakland offense so quick in 4 straight drives that included a back breaker turnover by tryod

 

yes the defense struggled but Oakland had a worse defense then us and there offense instead of doing what you consider "enough" carried the load and won the game

 

its a team game but if the offense has a chance in the final 5 minutes they need to more times than not win the game... if your offense scores 38 points but is losing by 3 points with 2 minutes left... is it ok for them to **** the bed and blame the defense because they "did enough"?

[John from Riverside]

First off I'm a new member here, but have been reading this board along with BBMB for years. This is my first ever post so I expect to get some abuse as I've seen before, lol. Anyway, I've wavered a lot in the past few months in what I want the Bills to do. With position players, it obviously depends on how the board falls, but I think there are realistically 5-6 players that would make sense for us at 10 that I wouldn't be mad at. With that said, I look at this list of former 1st round picks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffalo_Bills_first-round_draft_picks....especially since 2000 and think what's the point if we don't have a QB. There's some great players, solid starters, bust and everywhere in between, but can you honestly say any of them were franchise changing players? No you can't and until we find a QB it just doesn't matter. I understand people are frustrated with no playoffs (as am I), but I'd much rather have our goal be to be a contender year in and year out than to "just make the playoffs." I don't want to just do what the Dolphins did last year and get in the playoffs, but lose early. I want to contend for a Super Bowl and to do that you need a franchise QB. Maybe this QB class isn't the best compared to past years, but if the Bills can identity someone who they think can be that guy and he's there at 10, take him and don't think twice. If he flames out, I still wouldn't be mad at the pick because we took a chance. Its a risk we need to take. If we take the next Darrel Revis or Luke Keuchly, but go 8-8 for the next 3 years then who cares. Not to mention, non-QB have a chance to be a bust, too. My draft dream is for the Bills to trade back a bit, get an extra 2nd or 3rd (to help with their positional needs) and still get their guy at QB, but not sure how realistic that is and it risks losing their guy. So if they want to take him at 10, I'm all for it

that paragragh is hurting my eyes

[billz4life820]

Tryrod is just not going to cut it. He's a great athlete and an OK qb. I want more than than. I'm guessing the Bills do take a qb if Trubisky, Watson, or Mahomes are there at 10. Why is a terrible move to take a QB at 10, but it's perfectly fine to take one at 18 - 32? If you target a qb as an NFL caliber starting QB, then take him when you can.

 

you have a good point here... but it is all about risk.... acceptable risk (IMO) increases as you move back in the draft

 

when you are in the Top 10 you want to minimize as much risk with the selection

[Kirby Jackson]

The bolded sentence is demonstrably false. Rogers, Brees, Wilson, Brady, Carr, Cousins, Prescott etc. all taken outside the top 20 picks in the draft.

 

If there is a "can't miss", Andrew Luck-type QB at the top of the draft, you aren't going to get him with picks 12 and 24. You either won't be able to get him for any price, or you'll have to mortgage your future, like the Redskins had to do to get RGIII.

RG3 was 3 like 3 1sts and a 2nd. If the Bills traded down this year and picked up an extra 1st they can do something like their 2 1sts next year, a second next year or (2020) and a 1st in 2019. They would still have the player this year at 25. If they were to trade up this year as an example it will cost their 2nd at least. For me I would rather:

- pick 25, pick 44 & Darnold or Rosen

Over

- Trubisky, 1st in 2018, 1st in 2019 and 2nd in 2020 (if the price was that extreme)

 

It really amounts to Trubisky + a 1st vs. Darnold/Rosen. I'd rather the latter but everyone is different.

[bills_fan]

 

Well considering the Broncos won the SB 2 years ago with the lowest rated QB in the NFL and the single worst QB performance in SB history by a winning SB QB, I think you're grossly over exaggerating our QB scenario. TT is better than what the QB's did for the Broncos on their way to a SB title. Yes, the guy who won was one of the greatest, but he was also a shell of himself and played awful all season and in the SB. Heck, he damn near lost his job permanently to Brock, who is beyond awful.

 

The Bills in TT 15 starts last year, had the 3rd most TD's in the entire NFL behind only Atlanta and the Saints. We scored 25 points or more in 10 of those games. We lost 6 of our 8 games under TT by 6 points or less. Our defense in the 15 games outside the fluke week 4 Pats game with no Brady, Jimmy, or Gronk was 26th in the NFL in points allowed.

 

QB and scoring are not our biggest issue. And to add to all that, we scored all those points with mostly scrubs at WR all year as Sammy was really only healthy for a game or two. We lost McCoy for all or part of 3 games, we lost our best OL for multiple games, we changed OC's 2 weeks in, and Clay missed some time too. Yet we still managed with inept coaching to be one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL.

 

Think about this...in 4 seasons now TT has had 4 different OC's. Balt, then 2 in his first 2 years here, now Dennison. Add that to all the injuries to his skill players, himself, the OL, etc to see what he has had to overcome and do so under an inept coaching staff. Yet in his 2 seasons as a starter, he still managed to make the Pro Bowl twice, be lethal on the ground, and lead the Bills to the highest scoring 2 year period outside only the first 3 SB years.

 

To write off Taylor write now is absurd. There are things he must improve on clearly, but there is also a lot he has done well despite all that was working against him. And I have said this before, do NOT underestimate TRUST for a QB, especially one who is prolific running with the ball. Its crystal clear the only WR he really trusts is Sammy the last 2 years. When Sammy is healthy, he makes throws to him he doesn't attempt with the other guys. When a guy like TT doesn't have the same confidence, trust, or timing with his other WR's then it makes him quicker to pull the ball down and make a play with his feet. He needs to fix that for sure, but I think if he can build more trust and rapport with this new group of WRs that already look like a nice upgrade, not to mention a healthy Sammy (hopefully), then I think that will help him tremendously on seeing the field better. His biggest issue with seeing the field is pulling the ball down to quickly and looking to make a play with his feet.

 

Again, he has a lot to work on, no doubt. But, there is reason to be optimistic to see what he can do with this new staff and new selection of weapons. If he doesn't get it done, then we can go all out next year on a QB and put that young QB on a more talented roster assuming we addressed our more pressing needs this draft.

 

If we do draft a QB, I will root hard for the kid to succeed obviously, I just personally think our QB situation still has upside and that there are better choices early in this draft than the crop of QB's coming out.

 

Very well said. I feel the exact same way. If we could have paired last years offense with the Schwarz led defense of 3 years ago, we would definitely have been a playoff team. I'm really hoping McDermott gets this and simplifies the defense while retaining the offensive philosophy that help us produce last year.

 

TT's best game as a pro came when the season was on the line in Miami. He was fantastic all game. I'm really looking forward to see him build off that game and take the next step as a QB.

[Reed83HOF]

RG3 was 3 like 3 1sts and a 2nd. If the Bills traded down this year and picked up an extra 1st they can do something like their 2 1sts next year, a second next year or (2020) and a 1st in 2019. They would still have the player this year at 25. If they were to trade up this year as an example it will cost their 2nd at least. For me I would rather:

- pick 25, pick 44 & Darnold or Rosen

Over

- Trubisky, 1st in 2018, 1st in 2019 and 2nd in 2020 (if the price was that extreme)

 

It really amounts to Trubisky + a 1st vs. Darnold/Rosen. I'd rather the latter but everyone is different.

 

Do you think Darnold/Rosen will even be available for a trade?

[yungmack]

Well, BillsCuse, you expected some abuse and I don't want to disappoint you so here it is: your "new" thread is a variant on over a bazillion other thread that have been posted here. The generic category is, "Get a QB, any QB, because any QB the Bills don't have is a waaay better candidate for the legendary Franchise QB slot than any QB currently on the roster. And if 'Any QB' doesn't work out, keep on drafting 'Any QB' until one drops into your lap." This generic topic is based on a child-like belief that somewhere down in an always sunny dell, there is an orchard where Franchise QBs grow in abundance and all even a half-witted GM need do is show up and pick one. A corollary: because Whaley apparently doesn't know where this Franchise QB orchard is located, he must go.

 

Welcome aboard, 'Cuse.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Do you think Darnold/Rosen will even be available for a trade?

For that package? RG3 was one of the highest graded QBs ever and he was. If the Browns are up there I do. They aren't using top 5 picks on QBs in back-to-back years.

[TheFunPolice]

Crazy idea but what about betting on Cleveland's futility?

 

Our 2017 1st and 2018 2nd for their 2018 1st

[mannc]

RG3 was 3 like 3 1sts and a 2nd. If the Bills traded down this year and picked up an extra 1st they can do something like their 2 1sts next year, a second next year or (2020) and a 1st in 2019. They would still have the player this year at 25. If they were to trade up this year as an example it will cost their 2nd at least. For me I would rather:

- pick 25, pick 44 & Darnold or Rosen

Over

- Trubisky, 1st in 2018, 1st in 2019 and 2nd in 2020 (if the price was that extreme)

 

It really amounts to Trubisky + a 1st vs. Darnold/Rosen. I'd rather the latter but everyone is different.

I just think a trade up like that is a terrible idea. If there is a bona fide can't miss QB, the price will be extortionate. Look how much the Lambs had to pay to move up for a middling prospect like Goff. It puts way too many eggs in one basket and puts an enormous amount of pressure on the guy you draft to be "The Savior." Despite all the scouting and heavy breathing, the guy might not pan out, and of course, the player you draft can get hurt. I know, any player can get hurt (like RGIII), but you are giving up a ton of premium picks for ONE GUY.

Edited April 26, 2017 by mannc

[Webster Guy]

 

Very well said. I feel the exact same way. If we could have paired last years offense with the Schwarz led defense of 3 years ago, we would definitely have been a playoff team. I'm really hoping McDermott gets this and simplifies the defense while retaining the offensive philosophy that help us produce last year.

 

TT's best game as a pro came when the season was on the line in Miami. He was fantastic all game. I'm really looking forward to see him build off that game and take the next step as a QB.

 

Yes. I might add the other stud in that Miami game was TD Mike. Fantastic runs. Looked like a guy worth $2.76M to me...... Ok I'm over it.

 

But yeah McDermott gets it. When you watch the whole season as an aggregate, which can be done in 8 hours using the short cuts from my DVR, it becomes very obvious that a better defense and kicker gets us in the playoffs last year.

[Kirby Jackson]

I just think a trade up like that is a terrible idea. If there is a bona fide can't miss QB, the price will be extortionate. Look how much the Lambs had to pay to move up for a middling prospect like Goff. It puts way too many eggs in one basket and puts an enormous amount of pressure on the guy you draft to be "The Savior." Despite all the scouting and heavy breathing, the guy might not pan out, and of course, the player you draft can get hurt. I know, any player can get hurt (like RGIII), but you are giving up a ton of premium picks for ONE GUY.

I guess my point is I would absolutely make a big move for a guy that I was confident would be a franchise guy. I would much rather that than randomly swing on 1st round guys like EJ. It takes you 2 years to write them off and you are still left without the QB. That is why I want the extra 2018 pick.

[Reed83HOF]

For that package? RG3 was one of the highest graded QBs ever and he was. If the Browns are up there I do. They aren't using top 5 picks on QBs in back-to-back years.

I apologize as I did a bad job in asking my question.

 

Do you think if QB needy teams next year hold #'s 1&2; they would trade out of that spot?

[Kirby Jackson]

I apologize as I did a bad job in asking my question.

 

Do you think if QB needy teams next year hold #'s 1&2; they would trade out of that spot?

If they take one this year absolutely. Cleveland isn't trading up into the top 5 for Trubisky this year and then using a top 2 pick on a QB 12 months later. It depends who it is.

[Reed83HOF]

I guess my point is I would absolutely make a big move for a guy that I was confident would be a franchise guy. I would much rather that than randomly swing on 1st round guys like EJ. It takes you 2 years to write them off and you are still left without the QB. That is why I want the extra 2018 pick.

 

I entirely agree on this. My point all along has been we need a QB and if we believe he (whoever that is) could be a franchise guy we have to take him. We can't afford to wait or hope for better then next year. Next year's guys always look good (I know Darnold/Rosen - speaking more generally they grass is always greener)

[BillsCuse]

Well, BillsCuse, you expected some abuse and I don't want to disappoint you so here it is: your "new" thread is a variant on over a bazillion other thread that have been posted here. The generic category is, "Get a QB, any QB, because any QB the Bills don't have is a waaay better candidate for the legendary Franchise QB slot than any QB currently on the roster. And if 'Any QB' doesn't work out, keep on drafting 'Any QB' until one drops into your lap." This generic topic is based on a child-like belief that somewhere down in an always sunny dell, there is an orchard where Franchise QBs grow in abundance and all even a half-witted GM need do is show up and pick one. A corollary: because Whaley apparently doesn't know where this Franchise QB orchard is located, he must go.

 

Welcome aboard, 'Cuse.

Well I stated IF they believe in one, not just take one for the hell of it. Taking one they don't believe in is a terrible decision, but passing on one they do believe in is a worse decision imo. And by the way I understand there isn't any magical orchards where franchise QBs grow, but they also don't magically fall out of the sky into your lap either. So you need to take some risks here and there. Is there a chance for failure? Yes But if you hit, you are set for 10-15 years.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I entirely agree on this. My point all along has been we need a QB and if we believe he (whoever that is) could be a franchise guy we have to take him. We can't afford to wait or hope for better then next year. Next year's guys always look good (I know Darnold/Rosen - speaking more generally they grass is always greener)

I think a lot of people that want QB are using "everyone always says next years class is better." I genuinely believe it though. In this years class I think that 3-4 QBs will go in round 1. I do not believe that almost anybody has those guys amongst the 15 best players in this draft. In next years class I think that there will be 3 or more QBs in the top 15 overall players. The value is just better. A lot can change between now and then but there is a TON of depth in the class too. Some guys may rise while others fall but it will end as a really good group.

[yungmack]

Well I stated IF they believe in one, not just take one for the hell of it. Taking one they don't believe in is a terrible decision, but passing on one they do believe in is a worse decision imo. And by the way I understand there isn't any magical orchards where franchise QBs grow, but they also don't magically fall out of the sky into your lap either. So you need to take some risks here and there. Is there a chance for failure? Yes But if you hit, you are set for 10-15 years.

Your point that the FO should pull the trigger IF they believe they've found The Franchise QB is well-taken. The problem around here is that OBD is regarded by a large portion of its fan base as incompetent, so that drafting a QB at 10 will prove that incompetence while to another group NOT drafting one is a sign of its incompetence. In other words, OBD is expected to believe what the fans believe or else they're morons who should be fired.

 

Right now, there are committed factions supporting about every QB coming out of college. And it seems like OBD has scouted everyone of them. So if they don't jump on one at 10, many of the "fans" around here won't give them the benefit of the doubt but will instantly unleash thread after hateful thread about their incompetence. It's pretty much a "lose-lose" situation for OBD.

[JohnC]

For that package? RG3 was one of the highest graded QBs ever and he was. If the Browns are up there I do. They aren't using top 5 picks on QBs in back-to-back years.

The person who didn't rate RGIII as high as most was Mike Shanahan, the coach of the Redskins. It was the owner who was in love with him. Much of the infatuation had to do with the marketing potential of the star player. It was the marketing inclination of the owner who demanded the selection. Shanahan told the owner before the draft that it would take at least three years of training before he would be ready to play in the NFL. The owner wasn't interested in hearing what the HC had to say.

 

RGIII had a good rookie year. Much of it due to his physical abilities and little to do with his mental grasp of the game. When the battered RGIII had to rely on his mental talents for the game instead of his physical abilities he was sunk as a player. The same deficiency that still plagues him.

 

Mike Shanahan has taken a lot of unfair criticism for the way he handled RGIII. The problem wasn't the coach for this diva player's stupendous failure. It was the hard headed player who was too intoxicated with himself to listen to anyone who might be critical of this heaven sent gift to the NFL.

 

The person who knew the scoop about Griffin along with the HC was Kyle Shanahan, the son, who was the OC. Kyle outright detested Griffin not because he couldn't grasp what he was trying to teach him but because he was not receptive to what he was trying to teach him to the point of being dismissive. It didn't take long for the Shanahans, father and son, to recognize that Cousins was ultimately going to be the better qb. They were right.

Edited April 26, 2017 by JohnC