I'll leave this list here for the non-QB in the 1st people

[ocemur]

I get the value and the need of finding The Guy, but we don't have even one chance per year realistically of finding him. I know there's people on here who say draft a guy every year, but if you do that, you never really give any of then a chance to develop and see what you have. So my question is, if you take a guy in the first this year, does it mean you don't take a guy in the first next year. I think it does. I think that's a career ender for the GM as everyone would say the first guy was a wasted pick. So if this year's crop are 10% and you think next year has two or three 20-25% guys, I think you have to pass this year.

 

Second, if you think a QB has a 10% chance of becoming a Franchise guy, is that percentage the same everywhere he goes? Does the QB have the same chance of success in Cleveland or NYJ or Buffalo as he would in Houston or Dallas? There is definitely value in building other areas of the team to maximize your guy's chances of developing into the Franchise guy. Depending on the environment, that guy you call a 10% might be a 5% or a 20% guy. Since your shots at acquiring the guy are limited, I want t ogive him the best shot possible.

 

It's a judgment thing. You have a limited budget of draft picks/time and far more needs/wants than any team can fill. All that being said, I'd love to the Bills take a QB, because I don't think any other position would give me as much excitement and hope. Yeah, it'll almost definitely be the wrong guy, but I'll buy my ticket and ride the ride.

[Reed83HOF]

John Wawrow‏Verified account @john_wawrow 57s57 seconds ago

On the #Bills draft front, informed team still finalizing its board.

[Chuck Wagon]

The theory that you can't get a franchise QB drafting in the middle of the first round, but you can in the later rounds makes no sense whatsoever and is easily disproven. (A. Rogers, B Roethlisberger, to name two off the top of my head.)

Very good to great QBs can be found anywhere in the draft, and even in UDFA.

 

 

I like Bucky Brooks' take on the QB position. Basically a guy starts out as a trailer, he needs to be pulled along by the rest of the team and put in a position to succeed, with talent around him and proper coaching. Eventually he flips to a truck, able to pull the rest of the team along with him. Big Ben, Wilson, Brady, Romo were all examples of guys who were put into positions to succeed, able to grow in a successful environment until he became a "franchise" guy. Occasionally you get the Mannings / Lucks / Cams who are just THAT good the rest of the stuff doesn't matter that much, but those guys go #1 overall whenever they pop up.

 

I think the continual failings of franchises like us, Cleveland, Jacksonville etc to find a franchise QB have much less to do with failures in evaluation and much more to do with failures to put the proper coaching and talent into place. Our current coaching doesn't exactly come with a track record of QB development and I don't believe our receiver talent is up to the level to allow a QB to succeed, not to mention our defense last year wasn't good enough to win games for a young QB. That worries me in regards to taking one of these guys, especially at #10 overall. Tyrod has his warts, but he's largely viewed as a top 20 ish QB around the league, if we aren't able to build a team that allows him to succeed, we certainly aren't going to allow a young QB to succeed.

 

Just last year, did everyone miss that badly on Dak vs Goff, or was one put in a much better position?

[BillsCuse]

The problem is that if you build yourself a nice mediocre KC or Houston type team you'll win 11 games each season, have zero chance of going anywhere in the playoffs and lose early every year for 5-6 years.

 

Then your core players get older, teams poach your free agents or you sign players to huge contracts to keep them and maintain the mediocrity and suddenly the window of being somewhat decent but going nowhere closes and you're back to square one.

 

That's the plan if you do not have a QB.

 

KC and Houston will never advance to the Super Bowl, let alone win without a real QB. Both teams have stacked rosters and good coaching. They will win a bunch of games, then lose in either the Wild Card or Divisional round again, depending on who they draw for matchups.

 

So what's the point?

 

Worst of all, your mediocre "no chance in the post-season" team will never be up high enough to take a top QB prospect.

This is basically what I was getting at (you said it better than me). If we just make the playoffs, but don't really have a chance to succeed in them, then that's not good enough. This whole fan base is so starved (understandably) of not making the playoffs, that they would be satisfied with just making them. But that's personally not good enough. I don't hate Tyrod, I wanted him back, but more as a bridge than long term. I think with the right team around him we could make the playoffs, but not much more than that and that's the problem.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

this would be ideal but there is just too much risk and easier said then done.... most of the time if you are picking in the top 3 you need a qb.... even if browns (and have already selected lets say tribusky or watson) have a top pick and darnold and rosen are the real deal, you have to expect at least 2-3 other teams also trying to trade up for their services... that is a lot of competition and uncertainty

I don't disagree (which is why I want another 1st). If the Bills are around .500 they are picking between about 8-15. If the Texans are 10-6 and are picking 24 you'd have a tough package to beat. Not many teams can give you something like 12 and 24 as a starting point.

[mannc]

The problem is that if you build yourself a nice mediocre KC or Houston type team you'll win 11 games each season, have zero chance of going anywhere in the playoffs and lose early every year for 5-6 years.

 

Then your core players get older, teams poach your free agents or you sign players to huge contracts to keep them and maintain the mediocrity and suddenly the window of being somewhat decent but going nowhere closes and you're back to square one.

 

That's the plan if you do not have a QB.

 

KC and Houston will never advance to the Super Bowl, let alone win without a real QB. Both teams have stacked rosters and good coaching. They will win a bunch of games, then lose in either the Wild Card or Divisional round again, depending on who they draw for matchups.

 

So what's the point?

 

Worst of all, your mediocre "no chance in the post-season" team will never be up high enough to take a top QB prospect.

The bolded sentence is demonstrably false. Rogers, Brees, Wilson, Brady, Carr, Cousins, Prescott etc. all taken outside the top 20 picks in the draft.

I don't disagree (which is why I want another 1st). If the Bills are around .500 they are picking between about 8-15. If the Texans are 10-6 and are picking 24 you'd have a tough package to beat. Not many teams can give you something like 12 and 24 as a starting point.

If there is a "can't miss", Andrew Luck-type QB at the top of the draft, you aren't going to get him with picks 12 and 24. You either won't be able to get him for any price, or you'll have to mortgage your future, like the Redskins had to do to get RGIII.

[Real McClappy]

I get the value and the need of finding The Guy, but we don't have even one chance per year realistically of finding him. I know there's people on here who say draft a guy every year, but if you do that, you never really give any of then a chance to develop and see what you have. So my question is, if you take a guy in the first this year, does it mean you don't take a guy in the first next year. I think it does. I think that's a career ender for the GM as everyone would say the first guy was a wasted pick. So if this year's crop are 10% and you think next year has two or three 20-25% guys, I think you have to pass this year.

 

Second, if you think a QB has a 10% chance of becoming a Franchise guy, is that percentage the same everywhere he goes? Does the QB have the same chance of success in Cleveland or NYJ or Buffalo as he would in Houston or Dallas? There is definitely value in building other areas of the team to maximize your guy's chances of developing into the Franchise guy. Depending on the environment, that guy you call a 10% might be a 5% or a 20% guy. Since your shots at acquiring the guy are limited, I want t ogive him the best shot possible.

 

It's a judgment thing. You have a limited budget of draft picks/time and far more needs/wants than any team can fill. All that being said, I'd love to the Bills take a QB, because I don't think any other position would give me as much excitement and hope. Yeah, it'll almost definitely be the wrong guy, but I'll buy my ticket and ride the ride.

Agree, you have to have the O-line established and a decent running game helps.

 

Look how the Texans destroyed a former Carr. That dude took the biggest pounding every year, I never looked it up but assume he was one of the most sacked QB's in NFL history over that Texans time span.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Chuck Wagon]

The problem is that if you build yourself a nice mediocre KC or Houston type team you'll win 11 games each season, have zero chance of going anywhere in the playoffs and lose early every year for 5-6 years.

 

Then your core players get older, teams poach your free agents or you sign players to huge contracts to keep them and maintain the mediocrity and suddenly the window of being somewhat decent but going nowhere closes and you're back to square one.

 

That's the plan if you do not have a QB.

 

KC and Houston will never advance to the Super Bowl, let alone win without a real QB. Both teams have stacked rosters and good coaching. They will win a bunch of games, then lose in either the Wild Card or Divisional round again, depending on who they draw for matchups.

 

So what's the point?

 

Worst of all, your mediocre "no chance in the post-season" team will never be up high enough to take a top QB prospect.

 

 

Well, Alex Smith is at a point where we know what he is, he's not going to lose you games but he's certainly not going to risk winning them for you either. It wasn't that long ago Houston was picking #1 overall, so I hardly think they qualify as a team just spinning it's wheels "too good to find a QB", they gambled on Brock last year, it busted, they pulled the plug and are starting over. I think they are easily in a better position to groom a young QB than we are and we too are too good to get the top QB prospects.

 

Good teams or teams that built good teams around young QBs quickly (Seattle / Oakland / Dallas) have been the ones to find the later drafted "franchise" QBs lately and we've not been in a position to draft a guy like Luck / Jameis / Cam for over 30 years. I'd have to believe that KC and Houston are in a much better position to find a franchise QB than we are, despite the difference of 10 draft picks or so. Even our last "franchise" QB came into a team that had a great RB, a great WR, a strong Oline and a good defense. If you fail at all the other areas of building a good team, you aren't going to succeed at finding a QB who changes everything.

[Alphadawg7]

First off I'm a new member here, but have been reading this board along with BBMB for years. This is my first ever post so I expect to get some abuse as I've seen before, lol. Anyway, I've wavered a lot in the past few months in what I want the Bills to do. With position players, it obviously depends on how the board falls, but I think there are realistically 5-6 players that would make sense for us at 10 that I wouldn't be mad at. With that said, I look at this list of former 1st round picks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Buffalo_Bills_first-round_draft_picks....especially since 2000 and think what's the point if we don't have a QB. There's some great players, solid starters, bust and everywhere in between, but can you honestly say any of them were franchise changing players? No you can't and until we find a QB it just doesn't matter. I understand people are frustrated with no playoffs (as am I), but I'd much rather have our goal be to be a contender year in and year out than to "just make the playoffs." I don't want to just do what the Dolphins did last year and get in the playoffs, but lose early. I want to contend for a Super Bowl and to do that you need a franchise QB. Maybe this QB class isn't the best compared to past years, but if the Bills can identity someone who they think can be that guy and he's there at 10, take him and don't think twice. If he flames out, I still wouldn't be mad at the pick because we took a chance. Its a risk we need to take. If we take the next Darrel Revis or Luke Keuchly, but go 8-8 for the next 3 years then who cares. Not to mention, non-QB have a chance to be a bust, too. My draft dream is for the Bills to trade back a bit, get an extra 2nd or 3rd (to help with their positional needs) and still get their guy at QB, but not sure how realistic that is and it risks losing their guy. So if they want to take him at 10, I'm all for it

 

Well considering the Broncos won the SB 2 years ago with the lowest rated QB in the NFL and the single worst QB performance in SB history by a winning SB QB, I think you're grossly over exaggerating our QB scenario. TT is better than what the QB's did for the Broncos on their way to a SB title. Yes, the guy who won was one of the greatest, but he was also a shell of himself and played awful all season and in the SB. Heck, he damn near lost his job permanently to Brock, who is beyond awful.

 

The Bills in TT 15 starts last year, had the 3rd most TD's in the entire NFL behind only Atlanta and the Saints. We scored 25 points or more in 10 of those games. We lost 6 of our 8 games under TT by 6 points or less. Our defense in the 15 games outside the fluke week 4 Pats game with no Brady, Jimmy, or Gronk was 26th in the NFL in points allowed.

 

QB and scoring are not our biggest issue. And to add to all that, we scored all those points with mostly scrubs at WR all year as Sammy was really only healthy for a game or two. We lost McCoy for all or part of 3 games, we lost our best OL for multiple games, we changed OC's 2 weeks in, and Clay missed some time too. Yet we still managed with inept coaching to be one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL.

 

Think about this...in 4 seasons now TT has had 4 different OC's. Balt, then 2 in his first 2 years here, now Dennison. Add that to all the injuries to his skill players, himself, the OL, etc to see what he has had to overcome and do so under an inept coaching staff. Yet in his 2 seasons as a starter, he still managed to make the Pro Bowl twice, be lethal on the ground, and lead the Bills to the highest scoring 2 year period outside only the first 3 SB years.

 

To write off Taylor write now is absurd. There are things he must improve on clearly, but there is also a lot he has done well despite all that was working against him. And I have said this before, do NOT underestimate TRUST for a QB, especially one who is prolific running with the ball. Its crystal clear the only WR he really trusts is Sammy the last 2 years. When Sammy is healthy, he makes throws to him he doesn't attempt with the other guys. When a guy like TT doesn't have the same confidence, trust, or timing with his other WR's then it makes him quicker to pull the ball down and make a play with his feet. He needs to fix that for sure, but I think if he can build more trust and rapport with this new group of WRs that already look like a nice upgrade, not to mention a healthy Sammy (hopefully), then I think that will help him tremendously on seeing the field better. His biggest issue with seeing the field is pulling the ball down to quickly and looking to make a play with his feet.

 

Again, he has a lot to work on, no doubt. But, there is reason to be optimistic to see what he can do with this new staff and new selection of weapons. If he doesn't get it done, then we can go all out next year on a QB and put that young QB on a more talented roster assuming we addressed our more pressing needs this draft.

 

If we do draft a QB, I will root hard for the kid to succeed obviously, I just personally think our QB situation still has upside and that there are better choices early in this draft than the crop of QB's coming out.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Alphadawg7

[Reed83HOF]

If there is a "can't miss", Andrew Luck-type QB at the top of the draft, you aren't going to get him with picks 12 and 24. You either won't be able to get him for any price, or you'll have to mortgage your future, like the Redskins had to do to get RGIII.

 

If the Browns/Rams/Jags/Jets/Bears/49ers/Chargers don't need a can't miss QB of course...

[jeffismagic]

 

Well considering the Broncos won the SB 2 years ago with the lowest rated QB in the NFL and the single worst QB performance in SB history by a winning SB QB, I think you're grossly over exaggerating our QB scenario. TT is better than what the QB's did for the Broncos on their way to a SB title. Yes, the guy who won was one of the greatest, but he was also a shell of himself and played awful all season and in the SB. Heck, he damn near lost his job permanently to Brock, who is beyond awful.

 

The Bills in TT 15 starts last year, had the 3rd most TD's in the entire NFL behind only Atlanta and the Saints. We scored 25 points or more in 10 of those games. We lost 6 of our 8 games under TT by 6 points or less. Our defense in the 15 games outside the fluke week 4 Pats game with no Brady, Jimmy, or Gronk was 26th in the NFL in points allowed.

 

QB and scoring are not our biggest issue. And to add to all that, we scored all those points with mostly scrubs at WR all year as Sammy was really only healthy for a game or two. We lost McCoy for all or part of 3 games, we lost our best OL for multiple games, we changed OC's 2 weeks in, and Clay missed some time too. Yet we still managed with inept coaching to be one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL.

 

Think about this...in 4 seasons now TT has had 4 different OC's. Balt, then 2 in years here, now Dennison. Add that to all the injuries to his skill players, himself, the OL, etc to see what he has had to overcome and do so under an inept coaching staff. Yet in his 2 seasons as a starter, he still managed to make the Pro Bowl twice, be lethal on the ground, and lead the Bills to the highest scoring 2 year period outside only the first 3 SB years.

 

To write off Taylor write now is absurd. There are things he must improve on clearly, but there is also a lot he has done well despite all that was working against him. And I have said this before, do NOT underestimate TRUST for a QB, especially one who is prolific running with the ball. Its crystal clear the only WR he really trusts is Sammy the last 2 years. When Sammy is healthy, he makes throws to him he doesn't attempt with the other guys. When a guy like TT doesn't have the same confidence, trust, or timing with his other WR's then it makes him quicker to pull the ball down and make a play with his feet. He needs to fix that for sure, but I think if he can build more trust and rapport with this new group of WRs that already look like a nice upgrade, not to mention a healthy Sammy (hopefully), then I think that will help him tremendously on seeing the field better. His biggest issue with seeing the field is pulling the ball down to quickly and looking to make a play with his feet.

 

Again, he has a lot to work on, no doubt. But, there is reason to be optimistic to see what he can do with this new staff and new selection of weapons. If he doesn't get it done, then we can go all out next year on a QB and put that young QB on a more talented roster assuming we addressed our more pressing needs this draft.

 

If we do draft a QB, I will root hard for the kid to succeed obviously, I just personally think our QB situation still has upside and that there are better choices early in this draft than the crop of QB's coming out.

 

That's what happens when you have a QB who struggles throwing the ball in a tight game. When the other team knows you need to throw you have to be able to. That's why TT is fool's gold.

[Alphadawg7]

 

That's what happens when you have a QB who struggles throwing the ball in a tight game. When the other team knows you need to throw you have to be able to. That's why TT is fool's gold.

 

Except what you just said wasn't true. Our offense did enough in most those games to win, and the D lost the game for us, including Oakland where we were up big before the D gave up 4 straight TD drives.

[Real McClappy]

 

Well considering the Broncos won the SB 2 years ago with the lowest rated QB in the NFL and the single worst QB performance in SB history by a winning SB QB, I think you're grossly over exaggerating our QB scenario. TT is better than what the QB's did for the Broncos on their way to a SB title. Yes, the guy who won was one of the greatest, but he was also a shell of himself and played awful all season and in the SB. Heck, he damn near lost his job permanently to Brock, who is beyond awful.

 

The Bills in TT 15 starts last year, had the 3rd most TD's in the entire NFL behind only Atlanta and the Saints. We scored 25 points or more in 10 of those games. We lost 6 of our 8 games under TT by 6 points or less. Our defense in the 15 games outside the fluke week 4 Pats game with no Brady, Jimmy, or Gronk was 26th in the NFL in points allowed.

 

QB and scoring are not our biggest issue. And to add to all that, we scored all those points with mostly scrubs at WR all year as Sammy was really only healthy for a game or two. We lost McCoy for all or part of 3 games, we lost our best OL for multiple games, we changed OC's 2 weeks in, and Clay missed some time too. Yet we still managed with inept coaching to be one of the highest scoring teams in the NFL.

 

Think about this...in 4 seasons now TT has had 4 different OC's. Balt, then 2 in his first 2 years here, now Dennison. Add that to all the injuries to his skill players, himself, the OL, etc to see what he has had to overcome and do so under an inept coaching staff. Yet in his 2 seasons as a starter, he still managed to make the Pro Bowl twice, be lethal on the ground, and lead the Bills to the highest scoring 2 year period outside only the first 3 SB years.

 

To write off Taylor write now is absurd. There are things he must improve on clearly, but there is also a lot he has done well despite all that was working against him. And I have said this before, do NOT underestimate TRUST for a QB, especially one who is prolific running with the ball. Its crystal clear the only WR he really trusts is Sammy the last 2 years. When Sammy is healthy, he makes throws to him he doesn't attempt with the other guys. When a guy like TT doesn't have the same confidence, trust, or timing with his other WR's then it makes him quicker to pull the ball down and make a play with his feet. He needs to fix that for sure, but I think if he can build more trust and rapport with this new group of WRs that already look like a nice upgrade, not to mention a healthy Sammy (hopefully), then I think that will help him tremendously on seeing the field better. His biggest issue with seeing the field is pulling the ball down to quickly and looking to make a play with his feet.

 

Again, he has a lot to work on, no doubt. But, there is reason to be optimistic to see what he can do with this new staff and new selection of weapons. If he doesn't get it done, then we can go all out next year on a QB and put that young QB on a more talented roster assuming we addressed our more pressing needs this draft.

 

If we do draft a QB, I will root hard for the kid to succeed obviously, I just personally think our QB situation still has upside and that there are better choices early in this draft than the crop of QB's coming out.

 

You could have saved a lot of time and just said Tyrod Taylor is your guy.

 

Many, many Bills fan disagree, myself included. He a stop gap QB whom we need a future replacement for. Where and when we draft that next QB is the huge dilemma.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Real McCoy

[Alphadawg7]

 

You could have saved a lot of time and just said Tyrod Taylor is your guy.

 

Many, many Bills fan disagree, myself included. He a stop gap QB whom we need a future replacement for.

 

Except I didn't say that at all...but thanks for trying.

[jeffismagic]

 

Except what you just said wasn't true. Our offense did enough in most those games to win, and the D lost the game for us, including Oakland where we were up big before the D gave up 4 straight TD drives.

 

Oakland's D was worse than ours and they won 12 games. The QB matters.

[Bangarang]

Go back through your research and count the number of franchise quality starters that were drafted outside of the top 3. Also go through all of the other QBs drafted and double check the percentage of them that are franchise guys. Franchise QBs are picked at the beginning of the draft and once every few years a mid round guy comes along. About 10% of drafted QBs end up as franchise guys. In a class where their are question marks you don't take those chances imo. You set yourself up to get a guy that's more likely to hit.

Setting yourself up to get a guy more likely to succeed basically means to tank and finish with the top pick.

 

99.9% of the QBs in every draft have question marks. You can't just avoid the position waiting for a generational guy to fall in your laps. Just have to keep taking guys and hoping they get put in the right situation to succeed.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Bangarang

[ndirish1978]

 

 

I like Bucky Brooks' take on the QB position. Basically a guy starts out as a trailer, he needs to be pulled along by the rest of the team and put in a position to succeed, with talent around him and proper coaching. Eventually he flips to a truck, able to pull the rest of the team along with him. Big Ben, Wilson, Brady, Romo were all examples of guys who were put into positions to succeed, able to grow in a successful environment until he became a "franchise" guy. Occasionally you get the Mannings / Lucks / Cams who are just THAT good the rest of the stuff doesn't matter that much, but those guys go #1 overall whenever they pop up.

 

I think the continual failings of franchises like us, Cleveland, Jacksonville etc to find a franchise QB have much less to do with failures in evaluation and much more to do with failures to put the proper coaching and talent into place. Our current coaching doesn't exactly come with a track record of QB development and I don't believe our receiver talent is up to the level to allow a QB to succeed, not to mention our defense last year wasn't good enough to win games for a young QB. That worries me in regards to taking one of these guys, especially at #10 overall. Tyrod has his warts, but he's largely viewed as a top 20 ish QB around the league, if we aren't able to build a team that allows him to succeed, we certainly aren't going to allow a young QB to succeed.

 

Just last year, did everyone miss that badly on Dak vs Goff, or was one put in a much better position?

 

This is too logical to have a place on this board. It's obvious that magical rookie QBs can transform 1-win teams into playoff contenders, just ask the Mahomes/Trubisky fanboys here.

[BuffaloFan68]

As bad as we want/need a QB, it's better to wait until at least round 2 & grab a player like Adams or Williams in the first round this year. That said, if we do take a QB in the first, I'm fine with that too.

Go Bills!!!!!

[Real McClappy]

 

Except I didn't say that at all...but thanks for trying.

I know you added a ton of jumble F in between.

 

Here's your post summarized "To write off Taylor write now is absurd but draft one next year in case I'm wrong" How long are we supposed to wait on a QB, 20years?

 

Myself and many others disagree 100%. There is no need to spin the wheels on TT again, that has been done over and over again in numerous other threads. The topic is about drafting our next QB -- When and where?

Edited April 26, 2017 by Real McCoy

[PIZ]

Tryrod is just not going to cut it. He's a great athlete and an OK qb. I want more than than. I'm guessing the Bills do take a qb if Trubisky, Watson, or Mahomes are there at 10. Why is a terrible move to take a QB at 10, but it's perfectly fine to take one at 18 - 32? If you target a qb as an NFL caliber starting QB, then take him when you can.