3rdand12 Posted April 26, 2017 Posted April 26, 2017 Further roster moves are not minimal. That is what Whaley excelled at. If Whaley had been fired in January no complaints from me. Firing him now would be dysfunctional and in my view unprecedented but if you want to include all the GMs that left the teams after the draft that's fine, it still isn't common under these circumstances. If McDermott is secretly leading the draft I don't like that all. What is his scouting background? He's only been with us for a couple months, he's gone through all our scouting reports (from our soon to be fired scouts) and made determinations from that, or what? I agree that SD leading the draft is a cause for concern. But i would be surprised that to be the case.
HappyDays Posted April 26, 2017 Posted April 26, 2017 Couldn't disagree more. Your current scouts have put in months and -- in many cases -- YEARS of work scouting these players. You don't throw all of that out by firing everyone. Not only is it a waste of tons of intel, it also allows those scouts to find work elsewhere and bring the hard work they did on your company dime to another team. Your draft preferences, strategies, etc. It is far, FAR more logical to fire a front office AFTER a draft than to throw away all of their work and ask a brand new front office to speed-scout an entire draft in 3 months. To quote Joe Buscaglia: "If you unload the general manager and scouting staff in January, especially after they've just concluded a season's worth of work on all the prospects you're considering for the NFL Draft, your trade secrets are no longer put away with a lock and key. Unfortunately, the more prudent business decision is to let them go just after the draft is over -- especially if there isn't a GM-in-waiting that can keep the whole staff calm in the interim." Either a lame duck GM is making picks or an unproven head coach is making picks, if the reports are true. Nothing logical about that. I really don't care if they fire the scouts next week but if the plan is to fire Whaley then Pegula is a far worse owner than I ever thought possible.
xRUSHx Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 If the Bills blow up their front office AFTER the draft my faith in this franchise will be at an all time low. If that's the plan, it should have been done months ago. Not AFTER the draft. I agreeYou hire GM then HC not the other way around. First year HC being a GM as well? SMH at ownership, almost like Pegs want the team to lose fans so they can move the team. Either a lame duck GM is making picks or an unproven head coach is making picks, if the reports are true. Nothing logical about that. I really don't care if they fire the scouts next week but if the plan is to fire Whaley then Pegula is a far worse owner than I ever thought possible.I thought I really liked the new owners but this is just mad. Its horrible
K-9 Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 Well Tim Graham said he originally heard the plan was to give Whaley the year but now he is unsure. If this mutual agreement was already in place I think it would have gotten out there by now. So I think if Whaley goes it wouldn't be by choice and it will be hard to convince the fans that it was. There's a difference between Whaley choosing to leave and Whaley agreeing to leave after the draft if that was proposed by ownership. And it wouldn't necessarily have gotten out by now if all parties agreed to keep a tight lid on it. The writing has been on the wall for a couple months now as Whaley has taken a back seat and many of us have been saying since February that, on the surface, it looks like his days are numbered and that strategically it makes most sense to wait until after the draft. Not sure what convincing the fans need. We aren't owed any explanations and some are convinced no matter what. This story has strange timing. I assume that if it is true, Whaley must be aware (although given the Ryan story, I am not sure). So he cannot be involved in draft decisions then, right? Whaley is and has been intimately involved in draft decisions all along. Him leaving after the draft changes none of that.
34-78-83 Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 McD says specifically that he and Whaley are working well together. But that's a lie to some. McD is in charge according to some, but when the decision is made to not match on MG that is Whaley's fault. I understand fan is short for fanatic, but some sense of rational and logical thought would be welcome here. A toast to that.
JohnC Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 There's a difference between Whaley choosing to leave and Whaley agreeing to leave after the draft if that was proposed by ownership. And it wouldn't necessarily have gotten out by now if all parties agreed to keep a tight lid on it. The writing has been on the wall for a couple months now as Whaley has taken a back seat and many of us have been saying since February that, on the surface, it looks like his days are numbered and that strategically it makes most sense to wait until after the draft. Not sure what convincing the fans need. We aren't owed any explanations and some are convinced no matter what. What's the difference between choosing to leave and agreeing to leave? Whaley's job as a GM has been diminished and his authority has been eroded while the HC's authority has increased beyond the normal HCing duties. When the balance of authority/power shifts to the point that the HC has the final say then in essence the GM is not acting as a GM. Whaley knows how this industry works. He knows very well that whenever there is new ownership that the organization is going to be reviewed and assessed with new eyes. That's the standard course of action with a changing of the guard. The problem for Whaley is that his record is less than average to average at best. He lost influence because his performance didn't entitle him to be so valued. As you say the fans are not entitled to an explanation. There's no need for it. If one watches what has been going on and has a penny's worth of common sense the fans can figure out things out. What's obvious is obvious. The new owner has made some big blunders as an owner most notably the hiring of Rex. But what is evident is that he's more impressed with outcomes and not very tolerant of excuses.
oldmanfan Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 I will say that if Whaley does not have his job after the draft then I am wrong and that it will be hard if not impossible to trust what the owners and HC say.
Gugny Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 I will say that if Whaley does not have his job after the draft then I am wrong and that it will be hard if not impossible to trust what the owners and HC say. Look at my life. I'm a lot like you were.
#34fan Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 Seems dumb to fire these mofos now... Why give the idiots a draft to sink the team even lower?
JohnC Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 I will say that if Whaley does not have his job after the draft then I am wrong and that it will be hard if not impossible to trust what the owners and HC say. What do you want them to say? If they tell the truth it not only would be humiliating for Whaley but portray the organization as being more chaotic than it already is. Most often acting with dignity, class and diplomatically is more important than being brutally honest. There is a time and place. Telling new parents that their baby is ugly might be true but it isn't the right thing to say.
oldmanfan Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 What do you want them to say? If they tell the truth it not only would be humiliating for Whaley but portray the organization as being more chaotic than it already is. Most often acting with dignity, class and diplomatically is more important than being brutally honest. There is a time and place. Telling new parents that their baby is ugly might be true but it isn't the right thing to say. Good point. But I would not say we're working great as a team then see Whaley get dismissed a week or two later.
r00tabaga Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 Look at my life. I'm a lot like you were. Great tune
vincec Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 "Clean house". Nice. When does the tanking for higher draft picks start?
Gugny Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 "Clean house". Nice. When does the tanking for higher draft picks start? September 10, 2017
jeffismagic Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 "Clean house". Nice. When does the tanking for higher draft picks start? 2019.
JohnC Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 Good point. But I would not say we're working great as a team then see Whaley get dismissed a week or two later. Any way you look at the situation it is a tough situation especially for the person purported to being dispatched. When you are in a high profile job and in the public eye it simply is part of the job environment. When the owner came out and stated that the HC was going to be the spokesman for the organization and the GM was not going to appear at an annual draft appearance it was pretty clear that he was being pushed aside. That had to be humiliating for him. What I can say is that although Whaley is mostly invisible to the public he has conducted himself with class and dignity. He's been in the business long enough to know that there are tough aspects to his job that can't be avoided.
wilcoam Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 I am not convinced that any of the Graham 'gossip' has validity but we will see What I do know is that folks on the boards who judge what our Bills do By an old school vision of what a traditional GM, Owners, and HC roles are have a misunderstanding of how Pegs runs his franchise I think Polish Dave nailed it DW and MCD are co-workers, as were DW and Rex They make personal decisions together and the final call is Pegs Now I'm not saying this is the right or wrong way to run this franchise I will say its a very attractive system for a HC, and very unattractive for a traditional GM Maybe the reason DW has lasted this long is that has been able to embrace it And knowing all this I would not say our HC has any more power than our GM nor vice versa But whadda I know.... jc
jeffismagic Posted April 27, 2017 Posted April 27, 2017 I am not convinced that any of the Graham 'gossip' has validity but we will see What I do know is that folks on the boards who judge what our Bills do By an old school vision of what a traditional GM, Owners, and HC roles are have a misunderstanding of how Pegs runs his franchise I think Polish Dave nailed it DW and MCD are co-workers, as were DW and Rex They make personal decisions together and the final call is Pegs Now I'm not saying this is the right or wrong way to run this franchise I will say its a very attractive system for a HC, and very unattractive for a traditional GM Maybe the reason DW has lasted this long is that has been able to embrace it And knowing all this I would not say our HC has any more power than our GM nor vice versa But whadda I know.... jc That's the company line but it doesn't hold up.
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