TG on Whaley & McD sounds to be in charge update

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

 

Thanks OldTime, I was about to respond and saw you posted this. JO is the reason for every dumb contract provision we have, he is the reason our cap is mismanaged and he is the person responsible for setting round tenders.

I made a thread about this a few months ago and the majority of responses were nothing is anybody's fault.

[H2o]

This is gonna be fun to sit back and watch play out

[Madd Charlie]

Regardless of what happens, this is starting to look really really amateurish. Could we at least have the draft done before more dysfunction? I have a strange feeling the era of full stadiums without winning teams is coming to an end. We're loyal but were not fools maybe Pegula really is in over his head.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Madd Charlie

[CommonCents]

Scouts maybe. Overdorf maybe although he did OK with restructuring of Clay and keeping guys like Hughes and Dareus. But if they fire Whaley after spending time ever since McD got hired taking about how well they work together, then I would have to conclude the owners and McD lied. And that is not a good thing for the organization at all.

They butchered the Dareus contract.

 

If he is let go I wouldn't say they lied. I'd say Pegula hand picked McD and they had a conversation about attempting to work with Whaley. This way the new coach could get a taste for the GM that struggled working with the previous two coaches. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[teef]

when i first heard this i thought, no way...things just don't work like this. how wrong i was.

[ndirish1978]

They butchered the Dareus contract.

 

If he is let go I wouldn't say they lied. I'd say Pegula hand picked McD and they had a conversation about attempting to work with Whaley. This way the new coach could get a taste for the GM that struggled working with the previous two coaches. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

This was the most recent example that was in my mind when I said contract language.

[dave mcbride]

Had a bad flashback to the 2000 draft when John Butler seemed to already be planning on leaving for San Diego. That was arguably the worst draft in team history. It seemed like him and his scouts completely phoned it in that year. Hopefully that will not be the case with this staff.

It's more complicated than that. They really wanted OSU CB Ahmad Plummer, who was drafted by SF right before Flowers. Plummer looked fantastic early on but had bad injury issues that cut his career short. Butler, Adams, and AJ Smith were also all in on safety Mike Brown, a great player who the Bears took in round 2. Their next choice was safety Deon Grant (a good player who actually played in the 2012 Giants-Pats SB for the victorious Giants), who was drafted by Carolina immediately before the Bills picked. Travares Tillman was the last credible safety left when it came time for the Bills to pick in that round, and the Bills drafted for need (they really did need a safety at the time). But they were praying for Brown. It didn't happen, but it's not as if they mailed it in. It was a bad draft, but they had bad luck too.

 

Interesting fact about Deon Grant: he missed his entire rookie season because of a back injury, but played in 16 games every season from 2001 to his last season, in 2011.

Edited April 26, 2017 by dave mcbride

[Reed83HOF]

They butchered the Dareus contract.

 

If he is let go I wouldn't say they lied. I'd say Pegula hand picked McD and they had a conversation about attempting to work with Whaley. This way the new coach could get a taste for the GM that struggled working with the previous two coaches. That's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

Should have just canned him at the end of the season

[Bad Things]

Give Whaley another year.

[BillsfaninChicago]

It's more complicated than that. They really wanted OSU CB Ahmad Plummer, who was drafted by SF right before Flowers. Plummer looked fantastic early on but had bad injury issues that cut his career short. Butler, Adams, and AJ Smith were also all in on safety Mike Brown, a great player who the Bears took in round 2. Their next choice was safety Deon Grant (a good player who actually played in the 2012 Giants-Pats SB for the victorious Giants), who was drafted by Carolina immediately before the Bills picked. Travares Tillman was the last credible safety left when it came time for the Bills to pick in that round, and the Bills drafted for need (they really did need a safety at the time). But they were praying for Brown. It didn't happen, but it's not as if they mailed it in. It was a bad draft, but they had bad luck too.

 

Interesting fact about Deon Grant: he missed his entire rookie season because of a back injury, but played in 16 games every season from 2001 to his last season, in 2011.

Thanks for the insight into that draft I guess there were a lot of things in play that like the next 17 years didn't seem to fall our way. Didn't want to also mention that was the draft where Brady went in the 6th round.

[Jasovon]

This would be such a classless thing to do....

[eball]

This conversation is getting dumber by the minute. So what, if I find one GM in the last 2 decades fired after the draft that means Whaley being fired would be totally normal? You're really going out of your way to argue that this situation is normal, when it obviously isn't. No I'm not going to do your research for you, if you can find a couple examples that would be cool... but I don't think you'll find much, if anything.

 

I didn't say it was "normal," Chachi -- I said it makes some sense to me that they would wait until after the draft, and I found some support for that premise. You used the word "unprecedented," which is just silly because I'm sure there have been GMs let go after the draft and before training camp.

[Success]

Give Whaley another year.

Watch him get fired, and then Watkins plays 16 games and has a career year, Ragland, Lawson and Seymour all break out as star players, and we finally get great coaching and make the playoffs.

[CommonCents]

Watch him get fired, and then Watkins plays 16 games and has a career year, Ragland, Lawson and Seymour all break out as star players, and we finally get great coaching and make the playoffs.

Yah and the beer is free this year.

[GG]

 

This was the most recent example that was in my mind when I said contract language.

 

Again, you're assuming that it's Overdorf and not the owner & GM that agreed to the stipulations. As for cap management, please tell me how a 6 yr $95 million contract with $43 million in guarantees isn't going to flood the cap in the first three years

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

In all honestly I think Whaley could have been a good GM but he was thrown into a very bad situation and it was too early for him.

 

Freaking buddy had Fitz and Thigpen as the two top QB's on the roster and didn't go after a QB in 2011 or 2012 when there were many good prospects, simply unacceptable and the main reason why Nix was an absolutely terrible GM. Also drafting Spiller 9th overall.

 

Nix then announced to the world he was going to take a QB in a terrible QB draft and saddled Whaley with that.

[dave mcbride]

 

I didn't say it was "normal," Chachi -- I said it makes some sense to me that they would wait until after the draft, and I found some support for that premise. You used the word "unprecedented," which is just silly because I'm sure there have been GMs let go after the draft and before training camp.

See above. Charley Casserly's May 2006 firing in Houston is a well known recent example.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Unless McD started asking for certain potential parameters and exposed some major flaw in how the talent is measured and graded, I can't understand why Whales is in the doghouse now. They would have just as easily canned him with Rex

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

I didn't say it was "normal," Chachi -- I said it makes some sense to me that they would wait until after the draft, and I found some support for that premise. You used the word "unprecedented," which is just silly because I'm sure there have been GMs let go after the draft and before training camp.

 

 

you could respond to him without the not so funny mocking of his username?

 

 

I know, all in fun right...

[QCity]

It was a huge mistake to keep Whaley on board -- he should have been gone with Ryan back in December. However, if these rumors are true and we fire him and the scouting staff after the draft, I would question if Pegula has lost his sanity. He's starting to make the late George Steinbrenner seem patient and rational.

 

Then again, if Whaley attempts to trade our 2018 1st rounder to move up in this draft, I would fire him on the spot and have him escorted out of the building by security on national television.