WR Mike Williams Visited Bills today

[Solomon Grundy]

Tyrod is not good at throwing the ball so if that's the plan it will be a disaster. They need to protect Tyrod by running the ball and letting him throw into good situations based on down and distance.

 

The more Taylor’s been asked to throw the ball, the more it exposes his weaknesses as a passer.

 

 

 

Passing attempts per game

 

Result

 

2015

 

2016

 

Wins

 

21.5

 

26.5

 

Losses

 

34.8

 

32.4

 

 

http://www.sbnation.com/2017/3/2/14671358/tyrod-taylor-buffalo-bills-rumors-nfl-free-agency-2017

Don't let Polish Dave read this!??

[NoSaint]

I'm with you but most fans will accept it. If the QB was already in place you could make an argument for it. But with no franchise QB spending 3 #1 picks on WR is Matt Millen era Lions.

People say that a lot but if it had been two megatrons instead of Charles rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams -- well, the discussion might be very different.

 

You could string together examples to say any group of positions as high picks is stupid if you use an example with 3 guys that were bad players.

[C.Biscuit97]

Aren't you pro-Howard? (If I'm mixed up, apologies)

 

Wouldn't TTs inability to utilize a solid tight end we already have be concerning?

 

Also, since you've been on the WR comparables--- has there ever been a top paid TE (ours is 6th on the list currently) paired with a top 10 pick (heck, who have been the top 10 picks at tight end the last 15 years-- ebron, Winslow, Davis.... im almost positive im missing someone)

Yup, I'm very pro Howard. And you're right about the TE position. I think if you draft Howard, it's Clay's last year so he would be your number 1 TE the following season. And Clay was a FA so you didn't spend a draft pick on him.

 

And I definitely worry about Howard struggling to make a huge impact with Tyrod. However, I love the idea of a young qb stepping into a situation with Sammy, OJ, & a bunch of young WRs. Howard will also have a big impact on the oline so that would be a big plus as well.

[C.Biscuit97]

People say that a lot but if it had been two megatrons instead of Charles rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams -- well, the discussion might be very different.

 

You could string together examples to say any group of positions as high picks is stupid if you use an example with 3 guys that were bad players.

Well I guess the one good thing about the lions drafting WRs high is they stayed bad enough to draft Matt Stafford!

 

I just think history shows that you can find WRs through the draft. Antonio Brown was a 6th. ODB was the 3rd wr in his class. Brandon Marshall was a 4th. Jordy Nelson was a 2nd. Hopkins was picked late in the first. Baldwin wasn't drafted.

[Bill_with_it]

 

So 2 offensive coordinators just removed basic plays from the NFL playbook to hold back Tyrod?

 

Do you think Dennison will also try to hold back Tyrod's greatness?

I never once stated any OC held back TT. I believe theres a mix of reasons that went into the play calling with Tyrods abilities being WAY down on that list of why certain plays werent called.

Considering I played wr through college, I have a decent idea. I also know that no matter how good of a receiver you are, you can't do anything after the ball if the ball is thrown behind you or not thrown with anticipation. For example, crossing routes are the best routes for YAC. Clay was great at those in Miami. These throws are the throws Taylor struggles with the most.

You dont get YAC with hitches and comebacks and unless you bust a tackle. Those were the majority of passes called last year.

[Augie]

Yup, I'm very pro Howard. And you're right about the TE position. I think if you draft Howard, it's Clay's last year so he would be your number 1 TE the following season. And Clay was a FA so you didn't spend a draft pick on him.

And I definitely worry about Howard struggling to make a huge impact with Tyrod. However, I love the idea of a young qb stepping into a situation with Sammy, OJ, & a bunch of young WRs. Howard will also have a big impact on the oline so that would be a big plus as well.

I'm liking the idea of Howard more and more. Mismatch city! I also like the idea of 2 TE's with Clay, but hope we can restructure if we can save big cap space (without kicking it down the road).

[NoSaint]

Yup, I'm very pro Howard. And you're right about the TE position. I think if you draft Howard, it's Clay's last year so he would be your number 1 TE the following season. And Clay was a FA so you didn't spend a draft pick on him.

 

And I definitely worry about Howard struggling to make a huge impact with Tyrod. However, I love the idea of a young qb stepping into a situation with Sammy, OJ, & a bunch of young WRs. Howard will also have a big impact on the oline so that would be a big plus as well.

Clays here at least 2 years if not all 3. After this season it's $9m in dead money, and even after the next it's $4.5m dead. Amortization of that option bonus paired with the signing bonus means we are seeing this one most/all the way through.

[C.Biscuit97]

I never once stated any OC held back TT. I believe theres a mix of reasons that went into the play calling with Tyrods abilities being WAY down on that list of why certain plays werent called.

You dont get YAC with hitches and comebacks and unless you bust a tackle. Those were the majority of passes called last year.

Why do you think those passes were called?

Clays here at least 2 years if not all 3. After this season it's $9m in dead money, and even after the next it's $4.5m dead. Amortization of that option bonus paired with the signing bonus means we are seeing this one most/all the way through.

Good catch. Well, I'm completely happy having two good TEs. The team in our division that wins all the time does it. Maybe we should start copying them.

[NoSaint]

I'm liking the idea of Howard more and more. Mismatch city! I also like the idea of 2 TE's with Clay, but hope we can restructure if we can save big cap space (without kicking it down the road).

Clay is a really tough one to restructure as we already, essentially, did. That second year bonus being amortized instead of kept in the year means our only real option would be to extend him... but with his knees are you adding anything to the length there?

[Augie]

Clay is a really tough one to restructure as we already, essentially, did. That second year bonus being amortized instead of kept in the year means our only real option would be to extend him... but with his knees are you adding anything to the length there?

Maybe he was faking at Club Rex??? Too bad, but I'd love a couple of stud TE's as I saw how difficult it was for US to handle.

[Watkins_deep]

Well I guess the one good thing about the lions drafting WRs high is they stayed bad enough to draft Matt Stafford!

 

I just think history shows that you can find WRs through the draft. Antonio Brown was a 6th. ODB was the 3rd wr in his class. Brandon Marshall was a 4th. Jordy Nelson was a 2nd. Hopkins was picked late in the first. Baldwin wasn't drafted.

all those wrs have careers because of their qb. But i agree with what you're saying, unless theres a generational calvin or moss type

[BillsFan17]

[quote name="C.Biscuit97" post="4339927"

Weirdly, we get players in the draft for more than one year.

 

And that means what? He played at Bama for four year and for four years they couldn't find a way to utilize his elite measurables.

 

Again, I have to look back to Gonzo for the last time a TE taken in the top 15 panned out and met expectations.

[C.Biscuit97]

And that means what? He played at Bama for four year and for four years they couldn't find a way to utilize his elite measurables.

 

Again, I have to look back to Gonzo for the last time a TE taken in the top 15 panned out and met expectations.

1) college stats can be misleading. Howard is playing with qbs who won't be drafted, for a run first team, that normally blows teams out. He had his best games in the biggest games.

 

2) Vernon Davis and Kellen Winslow had monster seasons. Eric Enron had the best season of his career, would have led the Bills in receiving, and is only 24.

[Bill_with_it]

Why do you think those passes were called?

 

Good catch. Well, I'm completely happy having two good TEs. The team in our division that wins all the time does it. Maybe we should start copying them.

Probably because our wrs arent capable of going over the middle without getting a hangnail and missing 2-3 games, the OC lacked creativity at drawingg up more than one slant going over the middle whcih basically allows both lbers to get a good lick on the wrs, and our wr talent that wasnt injured couldnt get seperation from my grandmother. There were quite a bit of collaborative reasons that our offense looked the way it did, Taylor abilities were way down on that list.

[C.Biscuit97]

Probably because our wrs arent capable of going over the middle without getting a hangnail and missing 2-3 games, the OC lacked creativity at drawingg up more than one slant going over the middle whcih basically allows both lbers to get a good lick on the wrs, and our wr talent that wasnt injured couldnt get seperation from my grandmother. There were quite a bit of collaborative reasons that our offense looked the way it did, Taylor abilities were way down on that list.

What a lot of teams do is self scout. Teams that play against Tyrod want to force him to stay in the pocket, not throw deep, and force him to beat them in the middle of the field. Do you honestly believe our OCs didn't know this?

 

I invite you to watch the all 22s. Guys were open, mainly Clay, over the middle. Tyrod either missed them or didn't see them.

 

He's not a bad qb but very flawed and someone you will always be limited with. But you can surround with all too WRs and he will never be a great passer. It is what it is.

[Bill_with_it]

What a lot of teams do is self scout. Teams that play against Tyrod want to force him to stay in the pocket, not throw deep, and force him to beat them in the middle of the field. Do you honestly believe our OCs didn't know this?

 

I invite you to watch the all 22s. Guys were open, mainly Clay, over the middle. Tyrod either missed them or didn't see them.

 

He's not a bad qb but very flawed and someone you will always be limited with. But you can surround with all too WRs and he will never be a great passer. It is what it is.

Im not claiming Tyrod is an excellent passer. What Im saying is you cant fault him for the deaign of the offense or plays that were called. Yes I watched the games yes I seen players open as you would with literally any qb even the great ones. You should know this you were a wr that was likely open on plays and didnt get the ball. Noone knows the progression or the reads except for the team.

[C.Biscuit97]

Im not claiming Tyrod is an excellent passer. What Im saying is you cant fault him for the deaign of the offense or plays that were called. Yes I watched the games yes I seen players open as you would with literally any qb even the great ones. You should know this you were a wr that was likely open on plays and didnt get the ball. Noone knows the progression or the reads except for the team.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Our receivers weren't great but this was a problem for Tyrod 2 years ago. One of the main reasons Belichick wanted Hogan is because the guy was open all the time and just got missed. Do the Titans have a great receiving core? Or the Cowboys without Dez? Or hell, even NE?

 

Seriously if you can, watch the all 22s. You give any receiver enough time, they will get open. Especially across the middle because defenses wanted Tyrod to throw there,

[Reed83HOF]

Especially across the middle because defenses wanted Tyrod to throw there,

 

Not the world's most accurate passer either...

[Bill_with_it]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. Our receivers weren't great but this was a problem for Tyrod 2 years ago. One of the main reasons Belichick wanted Hogan is because the guy was open all the time and just got missed. Do the Titans have a great receiving core? Or the Cowboys without Dez? Or hell, even NE?

 

Seriously if you can, watch the all 22s. You give any receiver enough time, they will get open. Especially across the middle because defenses wanted Tyrod to throw there,

I have watched the all 22s and seen people open, just like when you werent thrown the ball every time when you were open playing wr. Just like every time Hogan was open this year Brady didnt throw it to him, just like evey time every wide reciever was open they didnt get the ball. Look noone is stating Tyrod is the second coming of montana. But he is the least of this teams reasons as to why the offense was schemed the way it was. Are you really insenuating any of our tes or receivers with the exception of Sammy could even resemble Delanie Walker or Rishard Mathews?

Jason Witten will be arguably a HOF. Cole Beasley and Terrence Williams would work circles on any wr on this team last year not names Sammy.

Do you watch other games?

I watched Brees miss a ton of wide open wrs along with Rodgers. You know why noone brings it up? Because they have established themselves as franchise qbs. Does it make any different that franchise qbs and a qb who is trying to eatablish himself miss wide open wrs? No the wr was still overlooked. Like I said, Tyrod can improve, however the wr talent, wr availabiltiy, play calling, route combos, route discipline, scheme, and pass blocking need to improve as well.

[mannc]

You're my boy Kirby, so I hate to do it to you but since you asked: http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/sammy-watkins-player-stats

 

Watkins YAC: 2014 - 349

2015 - 167

2016 - 35

 

Inaccuracy kills your playmakers ability to make big plays. Brady rarely throws the ball deep but he reads a defense, sees a matchup, & gets it out accurate to his guys to run.

 

Fun fact, your boy Chris Hogan had more YAC this year than Sammy Watkins has had in his last 2 years. That's embarrassing.

And yet Tyrod's yards per attempt the past two years has been above the league average, so I'm not at all sure the YAC deficiency is on him or is even a problem. He is obviously throwing the ball downfield. The low YAC might be a result of the type of passes he was asked to throw. For example, sideline routes are less likely to lead to YAC than screen passes and dump offs. Without context, your theory that the low YAC is a reflection of Tyrod's inaccuracy is nothing more than speculation.