jeffismagic Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 I am not sure (at all) that Jimmy G is better. I am certain that Brissett isn't. Obviously the situation impacts it but if you said (all things being equal) the Pats could have either Brissett or Tyrod on their roster the answer is Tyrod (and it isn't even close). Everyone loves a QB until he has to play. I'm not trying to repeat things but on a per attempt basis he is right in the middle of the league and top 10 in terms of TDs and fewest INTs. We will see the attempts go up and the gross numbers go up. If you want to see what it all equals it is in the Mike Williams thread. The Patriots don't care about a player's value to your team. They care about how the player fits in THEIR offense.
hondo in seattle Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 There is not one team in this league who would take TT over Grapolo. Not one! If you think otherwise then so state it. There wasn't a team in this league that indicated that they were willing to match his original contract with the Bills to entice him to their team. There are multiple teams that are interested in trading for Grapolo. What's obvious is obvious. I don't hate Tyrod. We are fortunate to have him. But I consider him nothing but a bridge qb. And the contract he currently has indicates the same. The Pats are far from being an infallible team but they are certainly the most successful team in the league over the past generation with five SB rings. The Bills have not made the playoffs in 18 consecutive years. It's easy to come to a conclusion that they run a more successful operation. You can make excuses as to why that is but the record is the reality. You can "what if" yourself to exhaustion but that is not going to alter the record. I'm not a huge TT guy. But stating your opinion that not one team would take TT over Garopollo doesn't support your other opinion that TT isn't very good. Supporting opinions with more opinions is weak logic.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 The Patriots don't care about a player's value to your team. They care about how the player fits in THEIR offense. I know that. If you put Tyrod and Brissett in a hypothetical expansion draft and both are on the board when the Pats pick, they are taking Tyrod. That's the point.
JohnC Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 I am not sure (at all) that Jimmy G is better. I am certain that Brissett isn't. Obviously the situation impacts it but if you said (all things being equal) the Pats could have either Brissett or Tyrod on their roster the answer is Tyrod (and it isn't even close). Everyone loves a QB until he has to play. I'm not trying to repeat things but on a per attempt basis he is right in the middle of the league and top 10 in terms of TDs and fewest INTs. We will see the attempts go up and the gross numbers go up. If you want to see what it all equals it is in the Mike Williams thread. Where we disagree is that I don't see TT being able to run the Patriot offense while Garop has demonstrated that he can. In that respect it's not even a close call. The reality is that the GM that TT is currently playing for didn't even want him on the team. The situation certainly does impact the choice between TT and Brissett on a roster such as the Patriots. If TT wouldn't even be a third string qb for them because of the cost/benefit ratio. A factor that is considered for all player decisions in the NFL. You may not be sure that TT is better than Garop but I am. Garop is better at reading defenses and is a better short to medium range passer. TT is superb with the long ball. In my mind he is in the top 20% when he flings it deep with a nice touch.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Where we disagree is that I don't see TT being able to run the Patriot offense while Garop has demonstrated that he can. In that respect it's not even a close call. The reality is that the GM that TT is currently playing for didn't even want him on the team. The situation certainly does impact the choice between TT and Brissett on a roster such as the Patriots. If TT wouldn't even be a third string qb for them because of the cost/benefit ratio. A factor that is considered for all player decisions in the NFL. You may not be sure that TT is better than Garop but I am. Garop is better at reading defenses and is a better short to medium range passer. TT is superb with the long ball. In my mind he is in the top 20% when he flings it deep with a nice touch. Well you must have been pretty impressed by BOTH of his career starts. I was a little unsure about him after one start because of Matt Flynn and Rob Johnson but 2 starts is all I needed to be convinced that he will be a star.
JohnC Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Well you must have been pretty impressed by BOTH of his career starts. I was a little unsure about him after one start because of Matt Flynn and Rob Johnson but 2 starts is all I needed to be convinced that he will be a star. I didn't say he would be a star. That's your inaccurate characterization. What I did say is that I believe that he would be a better qb than TT.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 I didn't say he would be a star. That's your inaccurate characterization. What I did say is that I believe that he would be a better qb than TT. TT has proven to be a top 20ish QB. I'm not convinced (your word not mine) that Garoppolo is certain to be that. He has a chance to be better than Tannehill, Dalton, Tyrod, Flacco, and Alex Smith. I'm just not convinced that he will be that.
JohnC Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 I'm not a huge TT guy. But stating your opinion that not one team would take TT over Garopollo doesn't support your other opinion that TT isn't very good. Supporting opinions with more opinions is weak logic. Your logic is perplexing. Re-read what you just posted. It supports my position. My position is that Garop would be a better starting qb than TT and that I consider TT to be an adequate bridge quarterback. TT has proven to be a top 20ish QB. I'm not convinced (your word not mine) that Garoppolo is certain to be that. He has a chance to be better than Tannehill, Dalton, Tyrod, Flacco, and Alex Smith. I'm just not convinced that he will be that. You are portraying my position as if I am trashing TT. I am not. The bottom line is that I don't consider him good enough to be our long-term franchise qb. However you want to rate him with your stats his limitations preclude him from taking the team to a meaningful spot. That's my opinion and it appears that it is also the determined opinion of the GM he is currently playing for.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Your logic is perplexing. Re-read what you just posted. It supports my position. My position is that Garop would be a better starting qb than TT and that I consider TT to be an adequate bridge quarterback. You are portraying my position as if I am trashing TT. I am not. The bottom line is that I don't consider him good enough to be our long-term franchise qb. However you want to rate him with your stats his limitations preclude him from taking the team to a meaningful spot. That's my opinion and it appears that it is also the determined opinion of the GM he is currently playing for. I am not trying to mischaracterize your thoughts. You said that you were "convinced that Jimmy G would be better." I think that he could be that. You are certain that he will be. That's where we differ.
Figster Posted April 23, 2017 Posted April 23, 2017 Stats are meaningless unless seen in context. The Pats ranked third in points for and ranked first in points against. Their record for the season was 14-2 and they won the SB. Some of the local fans are chortling as if their team accomplished something with an offense that excelled in rushing and had a passing game that ranked near the bottom. What do the stats reveal when all is said and done if the team's record is 7-9 and again the team hasn't made the playoffs for the 17th consecutive year? And by the way the system is designed for parity! Even with TT's diminished contract the Pats wouldn't be foolish enough from a cost/benefit standpoint have him on their roster as a third string qb. As a Patriot he wouldn't be able to win the backup job against Garop. It may seem that I am bashing TT but I'm really not. We are fortunate to have him as our bridge qb. My seemingly negative view about him relates to him as our long-term franchise qb. I simply don't see him fulfilling that role. My contention is until that position is upgraded the Bills will never be a serious team. Myself personally, BB is going to start putting more of an emphasis on running the football to protect the elderly Brady. Stopping the Pats run game is going to take BB/Brady out of their comfort zone in my humble opinion. Make them one dimensional and wear the old man down... ....down...down... ...I'm a Billiever...
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