klos63 Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Murray and Blysma deserved this. Sabres should have made the playoffs with the talent they had. Toronto's revamped management team is 3 years ahead of their rebuild plan. Why not bring Bowman back as a consultant, and let him find a new GM? Maybe he can find success second time around. He's a consultant with the Hawks and is over 80. I don't think he would be interested.
liverpoolkev Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 No hijacking the thread, but how is Whaley still employed? That's easy to answer Whaley is better at finding talent Rex didn't even make it 2 full seasons.. I hope you didn't want Rex here longer!!! he was terrible
CanadianFan Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 I remember when they bought the Bills/Sabres thinking , what if these were the idiot fans I sat near all those years and they just happened to become billionaires and own the team. Lot of stupid fans out there that always want to fire someone but have no idea how to run a successful franchise. I think they are smarter than THAT. Buffalo isn't Toronto where the size of the market and fan base means a team can suck for decades and still sell out EVERY GAME. In a small market its a tough balancing act, esp. in NHL where revenue sharing isn't on par with NFL. And from what I can see, Sabres games don't sell out every game do they? So yes product they bring on board is very crucial. On the other hand, Tim Murray was very well thought of at the time if all of you recall. And turning around a team takes a number of years. It just hasn't panned out. They gave him a few years to make the moves. It hasn't happened. I think their judgement has been fine. Time to move on.
Guest NeckBeard Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 I think it was Gunner who mentioned back in January that Whaley could be let go after the draft. At that time, I thought it could happen, and still do. For a GM/scout, thats when their 'offseason' starts. Whaley certainly hasnt done anything since the end of the season to help his cause, and hasnt done too much to hurt it, aside from the low tender on MG. The next couple weeks should be interesting. Only a team like the Bills would let their GM handle a draft then fire them immediately after. Horrible, horrible move if this is really the case. This harkens back to the show "WKRP In Cincinnati", where they fired an on-air personality only to let him have one last show, and to hilarious (ironic, maybe) results. If this really happens, and if the Bills have a draft with yet another set of meh results, then this is on ownership 100%. I want to believe that ownership is learning, and that DW has largely been in a bind due to changes in the coaching ranks, but firing the GM right after the draft would be an indictment of this entire organization. I hope that it doesn't happen, and I say that as somebody who's not enamored with DW currently, but as somebody who also wants to see what competence and continuity look like for this organization for a change.
CanadianFan Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Murray was hired just before the 2014 draft and it sucked as he didn't have people in place. Expect another crap 2017 draft from the Sabres. I disagree here. He was assistant GM with Ottawa when he was hired. He knew the draft board. He knew every player coming up in draft and who's playing in NHL and AHL. He is a talent evaluator. It wasn't like he was fresh out of school and didn't know what players were available. nope.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 I thought bylsma was good? Based on what I read it sounds like Eichel fired him.
klos63 Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 I think they are smarter than THAT. Buffalo isn't Toronto where the size of the market and fan base means a team can suck for decades and still sell out EVERY GAME. In a small market its a tough balancing act, esp. in NHL where revenue sharing isn't on par with NFL. And from what I can see, Sabres games don't sell out every game do they? So yes product they bring on board is very crucial. On the other hand, Tim Murray was very well thought of at the time if all of you recall. And turning around a team takes a number of years. It just hasn't panned out. They gave him a few years to make the moves. It hasn't happened. I think their judgement has been fine. Time to move on. I hope you are correct, but the evidence isn't there yet.
jeffismagic Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Only a team like the Bills would let their GM handle a draft then fire them immediately after. Horrible, horrible move if this is really the case. This harkens back to the show "WKRP In Cincinnati", where they fired an on-air personality only to let him have one last show, and to hilarious (ironic, maybe) results. If this really happens, and if the Bills have a draft with yet another set of meh results, then this is on ownership 100%. I want to believe that ownership is learning, and that DW has largely been in a bind due to changes in the coaching ranks, but firing the GM right after the draft would be an indictment of this entire organization. I hope that it doesn't happen, and I say that as somebody who's not enamored with DW currently, but as somebody who also wants to see what competence and continuity look like for this organization for a change. Don't forget that Tim Murray's worst draft was 2014. He only had a few weeks to get ready for it and no time to get his staff in place. I disagree here. He was assistant GM with Ottawa when he was hired. He knew the draft board. He knew every player coming up in draft and who's playing in NHL and AHL. He is a talent evaluator. It wasn't like he was fresh out of school and didn't know what players were available. nope. The GM is not a one man show. Murray ended up drafting a goalie he had never seen play in 2014.
liverpoolkev Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) I just didn't care for the roster he assembled. All of his free agent signings were garbage and overspends. Lehner looks alright at times, O'Reilly is legit, and Eichel who was a no-brainer, and Risto who has developed quite nicely. Kulikov trade was bad. Lehner trade wasn't great. Kane trade kinda stinks cuz were stuck with Bogosian. Franson was a terrible signing. Gorges was a terrible trade. Moulson was a terrible signing. Ennis extension was a mistake. We have a few prospects who should be ready and might be good in a couple of years. But we couldnt play them because we have so much dead weight. 2 more years of moulson and ennis... and 1 more of gorges. Thanks GMTM! Thats why he was fired. Cap mismanagement, and bad moves. His plan was ruined when he got the worst record but did not get the best player in the draft Connor McDavid. I still remember how pissed he was when he didn't get the best player. That resulted in losing his choice for HC who went to Toronto. It's been down hill from then on i predict whaley will be fired one week after draft In your dreams Edited April 20, 2017 by liverpoolkev
Guest NeckBeard Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Don't forget that Tim Murray's worst draft was 2014. He only had a few weeks to get ready for it and no time to get his staff in place. The GM is not a one man show. Murray ended up drafting a goalie he had never seen play in 2014. Yes, I agree with this. However, 3 years later, and the Sabres are where? Nobody knows. Your statement is more suggestive that there's an issue with ownership and situational awareness -- like not hiring or firing a GM when the decisions they and their staffs make are of critical mass. Sad times.
jeffismagic Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 His plan was ruined when he got the worst record but did not get the best player in the draft Connor McDavid. I still remember how pissed he was when he didn't get the best player. That resulted in losing his choice for HC who went to Toronto. It's been down hill every sense Except that never happened. Media asked him a question and took his response out of context. Murray was criticizing the process of the lottery and having to sit through it.
GunnerBill Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Yeah, a scary thought. Don't get me wrong I wanted McDermott - he was my choice of the guys out there..... but I don't get to sit in interviews and ask the questions and evaluate the responses. I do worry that when it comes to these decisions Terry and Kim feel the pain of losing as much as us and get swayed emotionally.
jeffismagic Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Yes, I agree with this. However, 3 years later, and the Sabres are where? Nobody knows. Your statement is more suggestive that there's an issue with ownership and situational awareness -- like not hiring or firing a GM when the decisions they and their staffs make are of critical mass. Sad times. Murray got stuck with the worst coach in the NHL who was hired by the Pegulas. Watch Bogosian bounce back next year.
BillsFan4 Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Throwing away all of those picks and players that were collected doomed Murray. Why tank if you give it all away? Agreed. He did it to himself trying to speed up the rebuild too much. I think he would have had more time had he not traded away so many assets to speed up the timeline. He even said "give me 2 drafts" and "I don't think a rebuild needs to take 5 years". Had he just been patient and stock piled assets instead of burning through them like a drunken sailor, he might still have a job right now. The Sabres weren't ready to take the next step yet. The Sabres were on track to have the almost the most draft picks in history. We could have been something very special (we still can). We could have been a dynasty. Just that 2015 draft alone could have set the Sabres up for a decade. When you look at the players we could have had with those 1st and 2nd round picks traded away... I mean, you have to obviously hit on the draft picks, but Regier had us set up so well for that 2015 draft. That was one of the deepest drafts in a LONG time. 2016 is looking fantastic too. Oh well, no point in all the "coulda, shoulda, woulda"...
oldmanfan Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 The question was raised above if the owners are panicking? Of course not. In the Sabres case, they gave Murray 4 years or so to build the franchise up. He stripped the team to get Eichel, and now for the last two years the team has not shown any improvement. questionable decisions of FAs, moving guys up to the big roster, etc. Terry wants performance, and in this case he gave Murray all the authority and control he could ask for including selecting his HC. And if anything this year you saw regression instead of progress. So he made the call to go in a different direction. You can't on the one hand be critical of him for sticking with Regier too long, hen turn around and be critical of him for getting rid of Murray too soon. Terry it seems to me has shown his ownership philosophy. He will support his management team, support them in their HC selection, support them in terms of FA contracts and so on. But in return he wants to see progress towards a sustained winning team. He didn't see that with his current management structure with the Sabres, so he made a change. With the Bills, he hired Ryan, gave him direct reporting authority over Whaley (which I disagreed with, but the longer I watch things with Whaley the more I think he doesn't want that and is a company man that will toe the line with what the owner wants), Rex got players he wanted in the draft and free agency, even got to hire his brother and again the owners saw no progress at all. So he made a change. You can put some blame on Terry for the hires in the first place, and perhaps having a guy to run total operations of hockey and of football might be helpful, but I don't think you can assign blame for making changes when things with each team are stagnant if not regressing.
zow2 Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Crazy stuff. Imagine the new coach/GM coming in. In short order they will have to learn all the aspects of the roster and AHL players,,the good, the bad...preparation for the expansion draft, scouting combine in Buffalo and the regular NHL draft....and of course free agency and constructing a winning roster for 2017/2018.I gotta believe these positions will be filled by experienced NHL people...not newbies.
jeffismagic Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Don't get me wrong I wanted McDermott - he was my choice of the guys out there..... but I don't get to sit in interviews and ask the questions and evaluate the responses. I do worry that when it comes to these decisions Terry and Kim feel the pain of losing as much as us and get swayed emotionally. I wanted an Offensive Mastermind/ QB Guru. Jim Bob Cooter or Kyle Shanahan. The Bills had met with Shanahan the year before but didn't like him personally. Yeah, genius isn't always friendly.
CanadianFan Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 He's a consultant with the Hawks and is over 80. I don't think he would be interested. exactly. hire him to be sabres consultant for the summer, NOT BE GM - and ask him to find a GM. Kinda like what Charley Casserley does in NFL.
jeffismagic Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 exactly. hire him to be sabres consultant for the summer, NOT BE GM - and ask him to find a GM. Kinda like what Charley Casserley does in NFL. Oh god, not Casserly. He hired Toilet Bowles and McCaggan in NY.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 20, 2017 Posted April 20, 2017 Lombardi and Sutter, both brought cups to LA .......interesting.............
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