oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 That's one way to look at it. I always thought it was the job of the Gm to be the chief talent scout and personnel decision maker. It was the job of the coach to take the personnel he is given and assemble them into the best performing football team possible. Yet, I don't think that is what is happening here. Don't know for sure because I don't work inside the organization. It just appears (could be totally wrong about this) that the coaches (Rex and McDermott) have taken the role of chief talent scout and personnel decision maker. Meanwhile Whaley is serving more of an executive level advisory role to whether or not it makes sense to go after certain guys. Another way of putting it - Perhaps McDermott is the shot caller and Whaley is an advisor/business man who finds a way to make the coach's decision happen. Again, could be totally wrong. But it would make sense why Whaley has never said HE is the final decision maker and why the coaches have also never said WHALEY is the final decision maker. They are masking the fact that the coach (and possibly the ownership) are really the ones at the helm of the personnel search. Another thing that fits that scenario well is Pegula's seemingly very strong trust in Whaley. If Whaley hasn't called the shots recently (last couple years and this year now) it would make sense that there is nothing to hold him accountable for in regards to personnel decisions. Pegula would literally have no reason to fire Whaley if he isn't making the calls. Pure speculation. I have an active imagination. I think different teams do it differently. Like in KC Reid makes the decisions on personnel, in Baltimore it's Ozzie. To me the important thing is having coaching and personnel folks on the same page with respect to the philosophy of what they want in a team. Such that you can draft guys that fit, look at the right fits in free agency, etc.
PolishDave Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 I think different teams do it differently. Like in KC Reid makes the decisions on personnel, in Baltimore it's Ozzie. To me the important thing is having coaching and personnel folks on the same page with respect to the philosophy of what they want in a team. Such that you can draft guys that fit, look at the right fits in free agency, etc. No doubt. I am sure different teams/owners do it differently. If you are going to hand your coach all the reins for all the horses every time you get a new coach, then you have to expect it is going to take 4-5 years before that team is remolded into something that truly resembles what that coach has in mind. Only then will you really be able to assess whether his vision was good and his execution of that vision was adequate. If you have a GM who is drafting best players available and you have coaches who are just coaching - well then you can see if the coach is any good within 2 years or so. Or perhaps you can't build a Superbowl winner just drafting best players available - I don't know. Don't know when the last time was that was done.
jeffismagic Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 We saw what happens when the coach is making short term decisions in the draft last year. 3 picks for an inside backer? If Whaley did that and not Rex he should have been fired. If Whaley is happy to play fetch then I want him fired and a real GM brought in.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 21, 2017 Author Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) We saw what happens when the coach is making short term decisions in the draft last year. 3 picks for an inside backer? If Whaley did that and not Rex he should have been fired. If Whaley is happy to play fetch then I want him fired and a real GM brought in. So you want an inherent coach and GM conflict such that they can't work together? Should lead to outstanding results. People ding Whaley for not getting along or if he tries to accommodate the HC. Can't win either way it seems. Edited April 21, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz
jeffismagic Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 So you want an inherent coach and GM conflict such that they can't work together? Should lead to outstanding results. People ding Whaley for not getting along or if he tries to accommodate the HC. Can't win either way it seems. No I want a real GM running the team. See Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc
4BillsintheBurgh Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 No I want a real GM running the team. See Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc In Pittsburgh input is taken from the coaches, Colbert has said that many times. You get guys to fit the scheme, especially defensively. So since we've flushed coaches again McDermott has assessed the roster, dumped a couple guys and will move forward with the guys he thinks he can win with for this year. Next year there will be another batch of guys that get dumped because they didn't perform the way the coach thought they could. So we are dumping draft picks and it happens every time we change coaches. So if you want to take chances on qb's and you want comp picks, pray for a coach to survive for four years or that we happen to decide on a new coach who's philosophy lines up with the talent at hand.
26CornerBlitz Posted April 21, 2017 Author Posted April 21, 2017 @MatthewFairburn Who makes the final call, Sean McDermott or Doug Whaley? Does it matter? That and other Bills takeaways: http://trib.al/JQSdPVl
PolishDave Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 @MatthewFairburn Who makes the final call, Sean McDermott or Doug Whaley? Does it matter? That and other Bills takeaways: http://trib.al/JQSdPVl Thanks for that link. It is a good one! After reading that I am more convinced than ever that McDermott is officially calling the shots and Whaley is his underling in terms of power hierarchy. Not that it matters. Just lets us know who is most accountable for the personnel decisions moving forward from here. This should be great news to the ears of people who thinks that Whaley sucks. I personally don't. I think he is above average at evaluating talent based on his free agent work alone. And it would explain how the last couple drafts played out. If you don't like the last couple drafts, you might want to rethink blaming them entirely on Whaley. Seems like power has shifted away from Whaley compared to what it was when he originally became GM. Maybe? Maybe not? Maybe it has always been this way with him?
jeffismagic Posted April 21, 2017 Posted April 21, 2017 Thanks for that link. It is a good one! After reading that I am more convinced than ever that McDermott is officially calling the shots and Whaley is his underling in terms of power hierarchy. Not that it matters. Just lets us know who is most accountable for the personnel decisions moving forward from here. This should be great news to the ears of people who thinks that Whaley sucks. I personally don't. I think he is above average at evaluating talent based on his free agent work alone. And it would explain how the last couple drafts played out. If you don't like the last couple drafts, you might want to rethink blaming them entirely on Whaley. Seems like power has shifted away from Whaley compared to what it was when he originally became GM. Maybe? Maybe not? Maybe it has always been this way with him? I'm not a huge Whaley fan but I would prefer he have final call over a 1st year head coach. Coaches usually care about the next game. They are tactical, not strategic. Only a few coaches have shown the ability to think long term such as Bill B and Pete Carroll. We shall see what happens during the draft but I suspect the Pegulas haven't put much thought into the inherent weaknesses in their organization structure.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 We can all just assume McD runs the show right? I'm sure Whaley will give his input but the vibe I'm getting leads me to believe coach is making the decisions I would say yes but now way to know for sure as they are giving plausible deniability with the collective "group" deciding things.
PolishDave Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 I'm not a huge Whaley fan but I would prefer he have final call over a 1st year head coach. Coaches usually care about the next game. They are tactical, not strategic. Only a few coaches have shown the ability to think long term such as Bill B and Pete Carroll. We shall see what happens during the draft but I suspect the Pegulas haven't put much thought into the inherent weaknesses in their organization structure. Sorry...you're not going to get your wish. I would say yes but now way to know for sure as they are giving plausible deniability with the collective "group" deciding things. Did you read that article? Piece it together friend. McDermott is running the whole show. Well, he has help, but he is in charge...like big time in charge... Sink or swim...it's McDermott's doing.
transplantbillsfan Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 We can all just assume McD runs the show right? I'm sure Whaley will give his input but the vibe I'm getting leads me to believe coach is making the decisions It's probably why Taylor's still in Buffalo...
PolishDave Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 It's probably why Taylor's still in Buffalo... Yes. Also makes sense why they didn't make a decision on Taylor even after Rex was canned. Perhaps it was never Whaley's decision to make. It was the coach's decision all along.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 Yes. Also makes sense why they didn't make a decision on Taylor even after Rex was canned. Perhaps it was never Whaley's decision to make. It was the coach's decision all along. And our defensive HC waited until he had his offensive staff's e v a l before making his final decision.
Bill_with_it Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 Yes. Also makes sense why they didn't make a decision on Taylor even after Rex was canned. Perhaps it was never Whaley's decision to make. It was the coach's decision all along. Hey you guys are ruining the narrative. Remember you are supposed to say Whaley has complete control of the 53. Even though the HC just stated the 1st rd draft pivk is a group effort. FYI first round draft picks have a tendency to make the 53.
billsredneck1 Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 i'm happy that the hc has more power. the fact that dw tried to force his guy ej on the last 2 guys is probably why we're on our third coach. i'd be willing to bet if it were up to whaley tyrod would have been gone. rex was the reason he's here in the first place. i think the pegulas are making sure this hc is running his vision for this team and i for one am glad.
Bangarang Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 It's probably why Taylor's still in Buffalo... Does everything have to be about Tyrod with you?
The BLUES Brothers Posted April 22, 2017 Posted April 22, 2017 If I am Doug Whaley - I allow the Coach to be the one voice including with the Owners. Can you imagine if Whaley trumped Sean and got his guy in a power struggle? At any point of a lack of success - it would be a point of contention, all season long, with Sean; so why invite animosity? Wise people say that "People support what they help create." so let Sean specifically name at least the first 2-3 picks. As long as the players Sean wants is is/are talented guys - it will help support the relationship by acquiescing to "the process" and make it a win-win relationship. Personally I think Whaley is an easy target but is a grinder and will work to find guys that help here. We saw it with Hughes, Brown, Lorax, maybe now Logan Thomas, and confident it will continue here or elsewhere if we let him go.
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