Pats sign Gillislee to offer sheet

[ndirish1978]

 

Shift? I said no one would...AND they shouldn't.

 

So I take it you believe the Bills should put a 2nd round tender on every RFA, on the off-chance some team falls in love with that player and tries to sign him?

 

If you would like to keep the player, you should tender him at a rd that makes him unattractive to other teams. If you want to be cheap about things, then don't be surprised when players leave. If the Bills match they will now be paying 1.25M MORE than they would have with a second-rd tender. Incorrectly identifying the rd at which a player should be valued is poor work by both Whales and JO. Did I think Hogan was worth a first round tender last year? No. Would it have been a good idea to tender him at a level where we would have gotten something for him should he leave? Sure, but his original rd tender was what it was. It bit us in the butt when he was signed away but at that point in time we had Woods and Goodwin playing so I understand that one. Jonathan Williams is terrible and is not ready to be the #2 RB on our team. TD Mike is young and looks incredibly promising to anyone simply employing the eyeball test. We are a run-first team. To many here it sounds like a good idea to keep your best players at a position of strength. There is really no excuse for tendering him at original rd tender instead of paying him a bit more and tendering him at rd 2 unless you simply don't value keeping him on the team, which is a mistake in my mind. Nonetheless, we wouldn't need to be penny-pinching if JO knew how to structure contracts properly.

[NoSaint]

 

Shift? I said no one would...AND they shouldn't.

 

So I take it you believe the Bills should put a 2nd round tender on every RFA, on the off-chance some team falls in love with that player and tries to sign him?

Changing your argument got called so now you are going to change mine?

 

I've stated my argument clearly about a dozen times in this thread alone.

 

If you believe a guy is going to get substantial snaps even in best case scenario-- and first off the bench in injury -- I'm not going to play games over a few hundred thousand. It doesn't have to be a 100% blanket rule (depending on the original round, depth etc...) but generally speaking I would spend the money to not deal with replacing that type of player with a draft pick or street free agent this late.

 

We are talking a fraction of a single percent of a single years cap to have kept both guys from the pats swooping in.

Edited April 21, 2017 by NoSaint

[John from Riverside]

Bump

dude

[CanadianFan]

 

If you would like to keep the player, you should tender him at a rd that makes him unattractive to other teams.

 

So maybe this is intentional! Remember we got a different coach coming in. Maybe he isn't as good of a zone running back?

[BADOLBILZ]

Changing your argument got called so now you are going to change mine?

 

I've stated my argument clearly about a dozen times in this thread alone.

 

If you believe a guy is going to get substantial snaps even in best case scenario-- and first off the bench in injury -- I'm not going to play games over a few hundred thousand. It doesn't have to be a 100% blanket rule (depending on the original round, depth etc...) but generally speaking I would spend the money to not deal with replacing that type of player with a draft pick or street free agent this late.

 

We are talking a fraction of a single percent of a single years cap to have kept both guys from the pats swooping in.

 

 

Now you know what it's like arguing with facts against Doc and Deranged Greggo.

 

If I may interject...

 

Bob Woods just got $7M per over 5 years.

 

Bob.....Woods.

 

To catch 50 passes for 600 yards and 3 TD's every year.......and MIND YOU.....this is whether he is WR2 like his rookie and second seasons......WR2A with Hogan in 2015......or even WR1 like this year.

 

So YEAH......if he were on their team somebody would have seen fit to tender the raw and improving big play threat Hogan $2.7M if that was the difference between keeping him or essentially making him a glorified UFA with no compensation.

 

The real question is are there other teams dumb enough NOT to? Perhaps.....but not many.....RFA's changing teams is not that common for a reason.

 

Bills have played RFA purdy dumb the past couple offseasons.

Edited April 21, 2017 by #BADOL

[Watkins_deep]

Rather have joe mixon or corey clement rd 5. Mg was a one cut rb who benefited greatly from being a backup, and the read option

[YoloinOhio]

Rather have joe mixon or corey clement rd 5. Mg was a one cut rb who benefited greatly from being a backup, and the read option

dont forget the wildcat

[John from Riverside]

 

 

Now you know what it's like arguing with facts against Doc and Deranged Greggo.

 

If I may interject...

 

Bob Woods just got $7M per over 5 years.

 

Bob.....Woods.

 

To catch 50 passes for 600 yards and 3 TD's every year.......and MIND YOU.....this is whether he is WR2 like his rookie and second seasons......WR2A with Hogan in 2015......or even WR1 like this year.

 

So YEAH......if he were on their team somebody would have seen fit to tender the raw and improving big play threat Hogan $2.7M if that was the difference between keeping him or essentially making him a glorified UFA with no compensation.

 

The real question is are there other teams dumb enough NOT to? Perhaps.....but not many.....RFA's changing teams is not that common for a reason.

 

Bills have played RFA purdy dumb the past couple offseasons.

Yet they do continue to find players that work

 

Im not a big fan of letting Mike G. go.....i think he is a better RB then Hogan was a WR

 

but people were scared of losing Karlos Williams as well.....it worked out

[YoloinOhio]

Yet they do continue to find players that work

 

Im not a big fan of letting Mike G. go.....i think he is a better RB then Hogan was a WR

 

but people were scared of losing Karlos Williams as well.....it worked out

and Fred before that

[BADOLBILZ]

So because the Bills don't play the Pats til December, we now have a better chance to make a better run at the playoffs.....because there won't be any demoralizing losses. Interesting take.

 

Last I knew, you're not an NFL exec and it doesn't really matter what you think. Sure, Whaley could be wrong if he lets Gillislee go. He could also nail the 5th rd pick and add a player that will help this team long term while paying him pennies comparatively. We don't know how any of this will play out long term. Acting as if you do is just posturing.

 

Personally, I love Gillislee and would like to keep him, especially now that it would be for 2 years (it would've been 1 if he didn't get 5th rd tender). If the FO decides that they don't want to allocate that much money to the RB position, who can argue that? I mean, RBs are a dime a dozen right?

 

There will be more cuts around the league after the draft and there is still talent available out there. If their intention is to sign a couple more players (a la zach brown last year) in positions of need and matching gillislee would prevent that, how can you argue that? No one here knows if the FO has a plan or what that plan is. How about just wait and see what happens instead of blowing a gasket about another team signing our #2 rb (that whaley signed as a free agent).

 

How will you feel if we match the offer? Just wondering

 

 

1) Between home games featuring a veteran laden Bills team against young teams in the first half......as well as weak-to-middling road opponents.........I see 9 VERY WINNABLE games before the Bills play the Pats the first time.

 

If they are 7-4 before the Pats game.....they got a real chance to sneak in.

 

And that first game is at home.......the beginning of a 3 game homestand.....if there is a winnable one against a healthy Pats team it's probably that one.

 

Additionally, the Pats balls-out style has lead to a lot of late seasons where they are pretty banged up down the stretch........ so playing them later is likely a statistical plus.

 

AND......there is always that chance that the Patriots have homefield tied up going into the second to last game of the year in NE and you get a break.

 

Losses to the Pats are demoralizing......they are clearly the measuring stick for the Bills......so the timing of the schedule for this veteran team is absolutely BUENO.

 

2) RB's are a dime-a-dozen in general.........but this team is ALL-IN on running the football.......as evidenced by the investment in another FB......and Shady is reaching a point where it could end fast and you can't just assume it won't.

 

Ask the Minnesota Vikings......one minute they were all about pounding the rock and had the best back in football who was showing no end in sight......so they slept on the RB position for a few years.........and then he gets hurt and his two replacements averaged 3.4 ypc on nearly 300 carries. That is not a typo.....that really happened.

 

The best thing to do IMO is have a committee of decent backs......that is what they should have done from the outset with Roman........but the Bills went the Minnesota Vikings direction.....they shot their playmaker wad of $ on the RB position....they NEED that position to score the majority of their TD's and control the game.

 

To put MG's "backup" contribution in further perspective.......he had about 30 less yards as a reserve RB than the Bills leading yardage producing WR.....Bob Woods.........and 8 TD's to a measly 1 for Woods.

 

"Backup" just doesn't quite do his contribution justice.

 

They *might* be able to replace his production with a 5th round pick.........but they might end up like the 2016 Minnesota Vikings if the 29 year old Shady goes down too.

 

3) I will be GLAD if they match the offer so that they don't compound their initial error.

 

The value of a 5th round pick is not very much......it's a jip to say the least for what MG has proven he can do..........they should have no problem acquiring an additional one with a modest trade on draft day if so inclined...... just trade back a couple spots in round 2 or deal in other rounds. The dealing might not be as easy this year but there are a lot of teams with a lot of extra picks and they won't all have room for that many new faces on their roster so trades will be made for some of those comp picks etc..

Edited April 21, 2017 by #BADOL

[BADOLBILZ]

and Fred before that

 

 

Yep it's easy to find playmakers........says the guy who defended needlessly extending Shady when he was already under contract thru 2017.

[Rico]

I wonder if the Pats will use him to return kickoffs.

[BADOLBILZ]

Yet they do continue to find players that work

 

Im not a big fan of letting Mike G. go.....i think he is a better RB then Hogan was a WR

 

but people were scared of losing Karlos Williams as well.....it worked out

 

 

You remember a couple summers ago when Fred, Karlos and Shady were all injured at the same time?

 

Well, last year worked out because neither McCoy or Gillislee were hurt much and never at the same time.

 

Weren't so lucky at the RB position in 2015.......couldn't seem to get enough and most of the scrap heap pickups weren't up to the task.

 

Again.......RB's ARE a dime a dozen typically........but the Bills have invested their playmaking dough in the RB position and don't have much of a receiving arsenal on paper to offset the potential loss of McCoy.

 

Like the folly of only bringing ONE healthy top 4 quality NFL WR to camp last year backfired on the Bills for most of the season........the same could happen at RB.

 

Are you really counting on Jon Williams? He was a highly regarded 5th rounder. He's got some off-field issues and a concerning injury history(foot). The back they get in round 5 could be good.......but statistically it's much more likely he won't be, at least not in 2016.

I wonder if the Pats will use him to return kickoffs.

Edited April 22, 2017 by #BADOL

[Beef Jerky]

I would rather have a 5th round pick then pay MG that much money... He wasn't good, he had great holes to run through though. Thankfully we didn't lose any of the O-Line.

Edited April 22, 2017 by Beef Jerky

[Steve Billieve]

Jonathan Williams had those same holes . . .

Definitely need to find a decent back if we take the 5th

[leonbus23]

Seems like we can probably replace Gillislee with someone comparable; it's losing him to the Patriots that bothers me. I think that is what bothers a lot of us.

[Utah John]

Shady is a better back than MG but those tender hamstrings...

 

MG could be the Bills' starting RB for most of the year. $4M isn't crazy for a starting RB.

 

Pay him. And fire Overdorf for incompetence for getting the Bills into these situations.

[NoSaint]

Seems like we can probably replace Gillislee with someone comparable; it's losing him to the Patriots that bothers me. I think that is what bothers a lot of us.

If he's so utterly replaceable then losing him to the pats at that cost is a great win...

 

I don't think he's a great player but I do think I'd rather have the relatively sure thing than the shot in the dark in the 5th round.

[Doc]

Changing your argument got called so now you are going to change mine?

 

I've stated my argument clearly about a dozen times in this thread alone.

 

If you believe a guy is going to get substantial snaps even in best case scenario-- and first off the bench in injury -- I'm not going to play games over a few hundred thousand. It doesn't have to be a 100% blanket rule (depending on the original round, depth etc...) but generally speaking I would spend the money to not deal with replacing that type of player with a draft pick or street free agent this late.

 

We are talking a fraction of a single percent of a single years cap to have kept both guys from the pats swooping in.

 

No, I revealed your argument. You're saying it's better to tender your RFA's at the 2nd round level in case someone covets them. Own it No Saint, instead of claiming others are changing their argument.

 

 

 

Now you know what it's like arguing with facts against Doc and Deranged Greggo.

 

If I may interject...

 

Bob Woods just got $7M per over 5 years.

 

Bob.....Woods.

 

To catch 50 passes for 600 yards and 3 TD's every year.......and MIND YOU.....this is whether he is WR2 like his rookie and second seasons......WR2A with Hogan in 2015......or even WR1 like this year.

 

So YEAH......if he were on their team somebody would have seen fit to tender the raw and improving big play threat Hogan $2.7M if that was the difference between keeping him or essentially making him a glorified UFA with no compensation.

 

The real question is are there other teams dumb enough NOT to? Perhaps.....but not many.....RFA's changing teams is not that common for a reason.

 

Bills have played RFA purdy dumb the past couple offseasons.

 

Yes, another great BADOL argument. "Well, some team made the monumentally stupid decision to pay Bob Woods $7M/year, so...we should have tendered Hogan at a 2nd round level."

 

Yet they do continue to find players that work

 

Im not a big fan of letting Mike G. go.....i think he is a better RB then Hogan was a WR

 

but people were scared of losing Karlos Williams as well.....it worked out

 

This. Hogan's presence on the Bills wouldn't have changed a single thing about the season. The only shame is that the Bills couldn't have tendered Hogan at a 5th round level because I'd definitely have taken the pick for him. MG...not so much.

Jonathan Williams had those same holes . . .

Definitely need to find a decent back if we take the 5th

 

So did Bush. He ended up with negative yardage.

[NoSaint]

 

No, I revealed your argument. You're saying it's better to tender your RFA's at the 2nd round level in case someone covets them. Own it No Saint, instead of claiming others are changing their argument.

Not sure what to tell you doc--

 

You made several posts stating "no team would" tender him that high and pay 2.5m to protect his rights, and then when I pointed out within those same posts you were arguing the pats overpaid him at $4m to make sure we wouldn't steal him back (so why wouldn't they tender him at the second level) your phrasing quietly switched to "no team should" tender him as a 2. That's a small change on the keyboard but a big change in meaning of the argument.

 

And as to mine-- I've had this discussion with dozens of posters and you are the first to not get my statements. Some agree, some disagree but you are the first to mischaracterize my argument. There's a wide variety of quality on a teams RFA list and I'm talking about how to handle a very specific sliver. Maybe 1 guy a year for most teams on average.

 

Others get it, but if you don't, so be it. I'll get off this detour.

Edited April 22, 2017 by NoSaint