Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 That's really ironic coming from a guy with a long history of telling people how tough he is and inviting them to meet up for a fight. My suggestion that you stop insulting people who disagree with you stands. Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000204027/article/new-bills-gm-doug-whaley-integral-in-ej-manuel-pick New Bills GM Doug Whaley integral in EJ Manuel pick By Chris Wesseling Around the NFL Writer The Buffalo Bills raised plenty of eyebrows after taking EJ Manuel with the No. 16 pick in the 2013 NFL Draft, making him the first quarterback to go off the board. New general manager Doug Whaley isn't shy about taking ownership of the pick, even if he was second-in-command to Buddy Nix at the time. "I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said on NFL Network's "NFL Total Access" on Thursday. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board." Whaley did allow that it was a "collaborative effort" between area scouts, cross-checkers, coach Doug Marrone and Nix, but the new front-office boss is comfortable with hanging his hat on Manuel after vetting the quarterback in the pre-draft process. "We have a philosophy that the information makes the decision," Whaley explained. "We think that we did enough due diligence, and the information pointed us all to this point that EJ would be the guy we feel will take the Buffalo Bills into the future." Whaley's confidence is refreshing after Nix seemed to be in over his head while running the show for three and a half years. According to NFL.com's Ian Rapoport, Whaley is a "bright young star" who has impressed colleagues with his smarts and personnel acumen in his time with the Bills and Pittsburgh Steelers. The Bills finally seem pointed in the right direction. It now falls on Whaley's hand-picked franchise quarterback to end the longest active playoff drought in the NFL Setting up the board does not equate to responsibility for making the pick. Again, Buddy NIx was GM of the Bills when EJ was picked, and Buddy said before he retired he was going to make sure we had a young QB to build with. Picked the worng guy, but he picked him.. Perhaps we should find out who set the board for Whaley's drafts, because they would be responsible in your scenario. I don't think it's that people ignore it; I think they just see it as being totally irrelevant. Do you honestly believe that Whaley wouldn't have taken EJ if it was his call? His words and actions have made it clear that he wanted EJ, regardless of who had the final say. Doug even went so far as to say that if EJ didn't work out, he'd be looking for a new job. And his actions regarding EJ (trading up for Sammy, trading Cassel, possibly undermining Taylor) after he was on the roster were far more detrimental to the team than the pick itself. would Whaley have taken him? Probably. Does it matter? No, because Nix made the call. I simply think people should be held responsible for decision they actually make, not for ones they don't. Whaley can be rightly criticized for sticking with EJ too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Whaley can be rightly criticized for sticking with EJ too long. There are certainly things Whaley can be criticized for, Giving the first QB off the board a grand total of 17 games to show improvement is not one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 There are certainly things Whaley can be criticized for, Giving the first QB off the board a grand total of 17 games to show improvement is not one of them. Yup. And let's not forget the Bills traded down before selecting EJ and acquired a pick that eventually became Shady. If you're going to criticize the man for one move it helps to look at the entire picture. The Bills needed a QB and took a chance on one with a potentially high upside; in the process they also acquired another high value asset. The fact that it turns out EJ isn't a very good NFL QB isn't something any GM should be "blamed" for -- in my opinion. Whether a QB will be successful in this league is one of the hardest things to predict in sports. At least they took a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Believe what you want.Your not changing my mind Polish dave. Buddy Nix said specifically that he wanted to make sure the Bills had a QB before he retired, and he was the GM with the authority to make the call when EJ was drafted. That is inescapable truth. Everyone ignores that statement by NIx. So you are wrong. And he was wrong to draft EJ. Maybe not wrong, because you have to take a shot, but it did not work out. Don't know what to tell you guys other than you look foolish digging in your heels on something you are so obviously mistaken about. Obviously, neither of you were paying attention when that draft happened. You just like to argue. Whaley openly owned and still owns the EJ draft. It is the most ridiculous conversation to still be having this long after the fact when it is public knowledge. Don't become stock traders. You will sit still staring at your computer screen in disbelief waiting to be proven right as you watch your Enron stock go to zero. Poof! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Yup. And let's not forget the Bills traded down before selecting EJ and acquired a pick that eventually became Shady. If you're going to criticize the man for one move it helps to look at the entire picture. The Bills needed a QB and took a chance on one with a potentially high upside; in the process they also acquired another high value asset. The fact that it turns out EJ isn't a very good NFL QB isn't something any GM should be "blamed" for -- in my opinion. Whether a QB will be successful in this league is one of the hardest things to predict in sports. At least they took a shot. Ozzie Newsome chose Kyle Boller in the 1st round and Ozzie is one of the best in the business. But Ozzie didn't give up, he got Flacco soon after. Time for Buffalo to get their guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 There are certainly things Whaley can be criticized for, Giving the first QB off the board a grand total of 17 games to show improvement is not one of them. Good point Don't know what to tell you guys other than you look foolish digging in your heels on something you are so obviously mistaken about. Obviously, neither of you were paying attention when that draft happened. You just like to argue. Whaley openly owned and still owns the EJ draft. It is the most ridiculous conversation to still be having this long after the fact when it is public knowledge. Don't become stock traders. You will sit still staring at your computer screen in disbelief waiting to be proven right as you watch your Enron stock go to zero. Poof! I was around then. In fact, I've been watching the Bills since 1960. And your problem is simple: I have facts and you have feelings. The facts are thus: Buddy Nix was the GM of the Buffalo Bills the day of the draft when EJ was selected, and that Buddy specifically indicated he was going to be sure he got a QB before he left. Doesn't matter who was on board with the pick (and for that matter Marrone was also there when they worked him out). But you go ahead an enjoy your conspiracy theories. "Listen, we have said from Day 1, that we want to draft a good young quarterback," Nix told WGR-AM in Buffalo. "I don't want to leave here without a franchise guy for the future in place. I have not said that before, but I'm saying it now because it's a fact." Just to show facts are, in fact, facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris66 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Contract isnt to bad when you look at the overall payroll. Burkett 3.1m Gillisle 3.4m Lewis. 1.5m White. 800 Boldin. 700 9.5 for entire group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Good point I was around then. In fact, I've been watching the Bills since 1960. And your problem is simple: I have facts and you have feelings. The facts are thus: Buddy Nix was the GM of the Buffalo Bills the day of the draft when EJ was selected, and that Buddy specifically indicated he was going to be sure he got a QB before he left. Doesn't matter who was on board with the pick (and for that matter Marrone was also there when they worked him out). But you go ahead an enjoy your conspiracy theories. "Listen, we have said from Day 1, that we want to draft a good young quarterback," Nix told WGR-AM in Buffalo. "I don't want to leave here without a franchise guy for the future in place. I have not said that before, but I'm saying it now because it's a fact." Just to show facts are, in fact, facts. Give it up ,let them believe what they want. They will just get you to say something, you will regret. I`m with you on this and I know a lot of Bills fans that are also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=RB&type=position There's the list of drafted RBs. Other than Jay Ajayi I really don't see any that fit your criteria. Care to point out all the others? I like Jordan Howard, Chris Thompson, Karlos Williams (before blowing up), Ajayi, and Paul Perkins all better than Gillislee. I also don't think you write off a handful of other the just yet. Gillislee is a nice rb but he doesn't have stand out ability. IMO Howard is a stud (I wonder if the Bills would have taken him if he had last until their 5th round pick?). Ajayi had a good year in his 2nd season after getting called-out. Both have proven themselves as starters. However I wouldn't take Thompson or Perkins over MG at this time. MG was clearly superior to both and averaging almost 5.7 YPC (and again 6 YPC if you remove his 6 sub-3 yard TDs) on over 40 carries is not easy to do, and he's done it two years in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Show me facts to support your conjecture. Just FYI...if Simon is saying it, you can take it to the bank that that's what the team is doing. He's not speculating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 oops, i think i took a wrong turn.... i'm looking for the mike gillislee topic........laffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Just FYI...if Simon is saying it, you can take it to the bank that that's what the team is doing. He's not speculating. OK. Getting used to the folks here still. As for Gillislee, if they wind up matching a lot of folks will look pretty silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Just FYI...if Simon is saying it, you can take it to the bank that that's what the team is doing. He's not speculating. I missed it - did someone say they're matching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I missed it - did someone say they're matching? No, I was foolishly bringing up old business in a new business thread. My bad..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 OK. Getting used to the folks here still. As for Gillislee, if they wind up matching a lot of folks will look pretty silly. No worries--it can be quite difficult to tell when someone is stating pure opinion versus credible information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) OK, I guess I'm confused and didn't have the spare time to read ALL 80 PAGES. Do the Bills still have the option of matching the offer? Is there a deadline? Or is this a done deal? For the record, I'm a fan of TD Mike. He provided a hammer to McCoy's finesse runs. That YPC is not a joke; he earned it and I think the Bills a foolish to let him go. I keep hearing that RB's are a dime-a-dozen. Well, all I know is that this guy got it done when called on. J.Williams hasn't been as explosive or consistent. This guy is worth the money. Edited April 21, 2017 by Houston's #1 Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 As for 2000 yds from scrimmage... Shady was less than 400 yds away... Not 800. Not getting in on any other aspect of this argument but yeah he was over 1600 yds from scrimmage. LAST year Shady was 400 yards away....2016. That's still far short.....but his prediction was 2,000 yards for the 2015 season. So as I said....Deranged Greggo was 800+ yards off the mark. It was an ignorant, analysis-free prediction......Shady had 300 carries BUT was also coming off leading the NFL in fewest yards per touch in 2014.......and the only season in his career when Shady reached 2,000 yards was the aberration year of 2013 when he had nearly 400 touches in the Chip Kelly offense that was running like 90 offensive play per game and caught the league totally off guard(see Nick Foles season). It's possible that 2013 year was his "break" year.......that season where a back gets too many touches and thereafter is never as productive again with a similar workload. The Bills got more out of Shady by using him less last season..........he's not even close to the $ value per carry they thought they were getting.......but with less carries in 2016 in MORE healthy/available games than 2015 and the subsequently better per-play production.....is an indicator of what I am talking about. Factoring in another year closer for McCoy to the RB cliff........I would suggest that EVEN LESS carries this year would be a good idea if the plan is to keep getting high per-play production for another year. And that being the case.........Mike Gillislee would probably be even more valuable this year. Example: The Bills were for the most part very efficient on the ground in 2016.......but replace Shady's carries in Miami (when he tried to play thru a recurrence of his hammy injury) with MG and MG is a 115 carry back.......and Shady is just a 190 carry back.......and both of their numbers are better....and the Bills probably WIN that crucial game. Times have changed in the NFL.....it doesn't make sense to just keep pounding your veteran lead back hoping he ends up with decent numbers on a high volume of carries. When you are bringing a knife to a gun-fight by trying to outscore teams with your ground game against their pass game........you need to be as efficient with that blade as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 OK, I guess I'm confused and didn't have the spare time to read ALL 80 PAGES. Do the Bills still have the option of matching the offer? Is there a deadline? Or is this a done deal? For the record, I'm a fan of TD Mike. He provided a hammer to McCoy's finesse runs. That YPC is not a joke; he earned it and I think the Bills a foolish to let him go. I keep hearing that RB's are a dime-a-dozen. Well, all I know is that this guy got it done when called on. J.Williams hasn't been as explosive or consistent. This guy is worth the money. They haven't decided yet. The deadline is Monday. From McD's presser yesterday, he said they would decide "in a few days" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 OK, I guess I'm confused and didn't have the spare time to read ALL 80 PAGES. Do the Bills still have the option of matching the offer? Is there a deadline? Or is this a done deal? For the record, I'm a fan of TD Mike. He provided a hammer to McCoy's finesse runs. That YPC is not a joke; he earned it and I think the Bills a foolish to let him go. I keep hearing that RB's are a dime-a-dozen. Well, all I know is that this guy got it done when called on. J.Williams hasn't been as explosive or consistent. This guy is worth the money. Yes they can still match; no they haven't made a decision yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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