FireChan Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 No doubt, and I liked both Karlos and Mike. However, these guys' situations were not very similar to MG/KW (backing up McCoy, number of carries, etc.). Reggie Bush - 12 attempts for -3 yards. Jonathan Williams - 27 attempts for 94 yards. Boom Herron - 11 attempts for 37 yards. Boobie Dixon - 105 attempts for 432 yards (pre-McCoy). Cierre Wood - 2 attempts for 3 yards. The fact is, the Bills had two journeyman type guys backing up McCoy for the last two years who essentially put up identical numbers. Trading a 5th round pick for Mike Gillislee and making him the 10th highest paid player on your team is bad football. Plain and simple. Gillislee was a nobody, but he may be the next Arian Foster, who quickly became an non-journeyman. Karlos was a talented player with huge character red flags who still got drafted. I don't think it's the same as "two bums." IMO.
akm0404 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The Bills are currently 21st in available cap space, with approximately $10m less cap space than the average team. To suggest that we have tons of free space so we can somehow afford to overpay a backup running back is dubious at best.
YoloinOhio Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Say what? Matching the Patriots offer sheet EXACTLY costs the Bills a 5th round draft pick, and EXACTLY makes him the 10th highest paid player on the team (in terms of 2017-2018 salary cap cost). what the Bills do with Gillislee here will show whether they think he's a future starter. If they match, they think he is. McCoy could be gone next year, he would step up. If they dont, they take the pick and draft their future starter or believe Jwill can be that guy. NE has a RBBC and it doesn't matter what they think about Gillislee because they have a totally different offense where they rotate their backs and rely on the passing game.
BuffaloRebound Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) As much as I despise the patriots, if Gillislee is good enough for them, it should be a no brainer to keep him. Same with Hogan last year. Unfortunately Bills didn't have ability to match Gilmore. I know that Patriots aren't infallible but Bills are in no position to be thinking they are smarter than Patriots. 2 years, $6m isn't breaking the bank. Hopefully McDermott is smart enough to over-ride whoever in the organization thinks they're smarter than Bellichik. Edited April 19, 2017 by BuffaloRebound
Royale with Cheese Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 When he got on the field, he sucked. If he was #2 on the depth chart, how does that make him not suck? Gillisee couldn't even get on the field his first three years in the league. But hey, I guess you can determine how good a late rounder will be very early in their career. We're you absolutely thrilled when we signed Gillisee in November of 2015? A guy cut by two previous teams, a street FA with a total of 6 carries in 3 years....you absolutely thought he was a great RB pick up?
YoloinOhio Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The Bills are currently 21st in available cap space, with approximately $10m less cap space than the average team. To suggest that we have tons of free space so we can somehow afford to overpay a backup running back is dubious at best. they certainly have the space if they want to use it on him. He's already costing them 1.8 of that, add on a shade over 2 mill. Rookies will be only be about 3.8. They also get additional space post June 1 with the AW cut. It's not about whether they have the space, it's the value of the player in their offense.
akm0404 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 No it doesnt. That's not how it works at all. We get him at the contract that he signed with NE. We don't trade NE anything. Why would they get a pick for trying to poach a player? Follow along here. If the Bills match the Patriots offer sheet today, they have Mike Gillislee under team control for 2 years, costing $4m this year. If the Bills do not, they do not have to pay him, and receive a 5th round draft pick. Ergo, the cost of signing him is a 2-year $6.xm deal and NOT getting a 5th round pick. The Bills can either have him at the terms off the offer sheet, OR the draft pick. If this isn't trading MG for a 5th round pick, I honestly don't know what is.
Doc Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Like I said, a lame appeal to authority. No one has to have done something before for it to be a good idea. Diuretics aren't prescribed because "everyone does it." They are prescribed because it's a good idea and they work. You know all this. The question is, do you? So as a GM, you would tender every RFA at the 2nd round level because someone might sniff around any JAG player you have? OK. Watkins hurt last season-we could have used Hogan. Sure they could have used him. But his absence didn't make a bit of difference either way. Let's make our 6 carry-per-game backup running back the 10th highest paid player (by 2017-2018 cap hit) on the team, AND trade a 5th round draft pick to keep him. He'd actually be 12th highest. Just like he would on the Cheaters. The only argument for keeping him that makes sense to me - is planning on cutting McCoy in 2018. The other argument is he's a guy who averaged 5.7 YPC and score 9 TDs. Considering the production of Bush, Herron, JWill, etc., you can't simply say he'll be easily replaced.
mjt328 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 I never criticized Doug Whaley for letting Chris Hogan walk out the door. But I believe his handling of Mike Gillislee has been done poorly. It's not about matching the offer sheet. It's about the fact that we could have paid Gillislee less than $1 million more and locked him up for sure. Hogan was never going to be a big producer on our offense. He always fit the Patriots system better than ours. And even if he was still on our roster, we would still be looking for an upgrade opposite Sammy Watkins - with Hogan sitting as our #3 or #4. However, with our run-heavy offense and Shady's age, it would be foolish to enter the season without an experienced backup RB that can carry the offense if needed. We know that Gillislee fits our offense and we know that he can produce big when called upon. Maybe it's all about the system, and we'll have no problems plugging in another guy that can produce 7-8 TDs and over 5.5 YPC. But if Shady gets hurt, and our run game falls off... there will be no place that Whaley will be able to hide from this decision.
Doc Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 I never criticized Doug Whaley for letting Chris Hogan walk out the door. But I believe his handling of Mike Gillislee has been done poorly. It's not about matching the offer sheet. It's about the fact that we could have paid Gillislee less than $1 million more and locked him up for sure. Hogan was never going to be a big producer on our offense. He always fit the Patriots system better than ours. And even if he was still on our roster, we would still be looking for an upgrade opposite Sammy Watkins - with Hogan sitting as our #3 or #4. However, with our run-heavy offense and Shady's age, it would be foolish to enter the season without an experienced backup RB that can carry the offense if needed. We know that Gillislee fits our offense and we know that he can produce big when called upon. Maybe it's all about the system, and we'll have no problems plugging in another guy that can produce 7-8 TDs and over 5.5 YPC. But if Shady gets hurt, and our run game falls off... there will be no place that Whaley will be able to hide from this decision. The Bills can still lock him up for sure by matching the offer. And get him for 2 years, not one.
White Linen Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 I think NE made a mistake here. If they move on from Blount and go with some combination of Gillislee, Lewis, White and Burkhead - their running game got downgraded significantly IMO. The power Blount brought and his 18 TD's will be missed.
Pbomb Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 What was Williams YPC behind the same oline? Tolbert? Is his name even worth a mention? The fact is this is just another move that shows no long term plan of building an actual team. Why sign a premiere full back and then break up your 1 2 punch at RB? Shady is going to be less effective with more carries and his health is always a concern, Gilly is hands down a better option than Williams/Tolbert. Tolbert would be like Dixon starting a few games, but probably slower at this stage of his career. Why would you sign him and squabble over the million dollar difference between a 2nd/5th round tender with MG? Tie it back to the late signing of Reggie Bush last season, what was all that about? There is no semblance of a plan here. Shady and Gilly lead the league in YPC and Gilly was a big part of that, he was efficient in the redzone and in short yardage. A perfect compliment for Shady. So many other holes on this team but they play around with what is actually working. Didn't need to sign Bush or Tolbert, would have been better of trying to pick another young UDFA off the heap who has a chance of breaking out. Why pay more and sign two guys that already have seen their best days? Fundamentally unsound but oh so common at OBD. karlos had 5.6 yds per carry behind the same oline so not sure what your point is
FireChan Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The question is, do you? So as a GM, you would tender every RFA at the 2nd round level because someone might sniff around any JAG player you have? OK. Sure they could have used him. But his absence didn't make a bit of difference either way. He'd actually be 12th highest. Just like he would on the Cheaters. The other argument is he's a guy who averaged 5.7 YPC and score 9 TDs. Considering the production of Bush, Herron, JWill, etc., you can't simply say he'll be easily replaced. Every JAG? No. Mike G? Yes. I would've looked at the tandem of Mike G and Shady and how well they both played and tried to keep a strength of this team together. I wouldn't risk losing a good player over pennies and creating yet another hole on a team with too many. But hey, that makes too much sense. Bills gonna Bills.
billz4life820 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Mike G will be missed but you cannot pay a backup rb $4 million..... Bills played this wrong but a tleast they get a draft pick
CommonCents Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) karlos had 5.6 yds per carry behind the same oline so not sure what your point is Karlos is not here anymore, I'm talking about the guys who would be counted on to replace MG's production. Edited April 19, 2017 by Commonsense
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Follow along here. If the Bills match the Patriots offer sheet today, they have Mike Gillislee under team control for 2 years, costing $4m this year. If the Bills do not, they do not have to pay him, and receive a 5th round draft pick. Ergo, the cost of signing him is a 2-year $6.xm deal and NOT getting a 5th round pick. The Bills can either have him at the terms off the offer sheet, OR the draft pick. If this isn't trading MG for a 5th round pick, I honestly don't know what is. Yes - the end result is "like" a trade... but if you sign him - you are exactly where you were when you tendered him - just paying him more. How is that "losing" a 5th round pick? We never had it to begin with.
thebandit27 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Mike G will be missed but you cannot pay a backup rb $4 million..... Bills played this wrong but a tleast they get a draft pick His AAV is $3M, which is standard for a backup RB It's fine if you don't want to pay that for Gilly, but it's hardly out of whack for market value.
KellyToughII Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 54 damn pages over a backup RB? Come on folks, I know its a week before the draft but damn...
PolishDave Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Yes - the end result is "like" a trade... but if you sign him - you are exactly where you were when you tendered him - just paying him more. How is that "losing" a 5th round pick? We never had it to begin with. Because the pick is now part of the deal. It wasn't before, but it is now.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 54 damn pages over a backup RB? Come on folks, I know its a week before the draft but damn... Were you here when McCoy punched an off-duty cop? That must've been over 100
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