Rob's House Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Referring to MG as a "backup" is an admission that your argument sucks. You use it to obscure the truth. Most people associate "backup" with a guy who only sees significant playing time if the starter gets hurt. MG sees significant playing time regardless. So when you try to exploit the readers mental association with the term "backup" in reference to a guy whose role is not similar to that generally thought of in those terms, you're using a rhetorical tool to obscure reality. And if your argument relies on obscuring the truth your argument sucks.
eball Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Did I miss the news flash that Mike Gillislee is a key to the Bills' 2017 season? You would think the Bills just traded away Shady McCoy for a bag of donuts the way some are reacting. It is astounding that this thread has reached 51 pages. I've contributed about three or four posts so I guess I'm not helping, but still...wow.
akm0404 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Let's make our 6 carry-per-game backup running back the 10th highest paid player (by 2017-2018 cap hit) on the team, AND trade a 5th round draft pick to keep him. An off-the-scrap-heap mid-season free agent signing who had been out of the league the previous year that nobody else wanted. You want to make him your 10th highest paid player and give up a 5th round draft pick for him. I'd love to have him on the roster, but it would be literally INSANE to match this offer. THAT is what bad teams do. Zero other teams through 6 weeks of RFA submitted an offer sheet for him, yet Doug Whaley was criminally inept and MUST BE FIRED for selecting such an exploitable, obviously bad tender. Despite the fact that none of the other 30 teams agreed that it was the steal of the century. But it's the Patriots, you say. Quit being the scared little zero self confidence kid brother that worships big bad New England. They luckboxed the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL for the last 15 years. Surprise surprise, they've been the best team in the NFL for the last 15 years. Before that? Garbage franchise. Their godlike walk-on-water always-outfoxes-our-dumb-Bills coach was garbage before that. They'll be garbage again afterwards. R-E-L-A-X.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The only argument for keeping him that makes sense to me - is planning on cutting McCoy in 2018.
Royale with Cheese Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Yes, when you are a run first team and your main RB will be 29 when the season starts. We were a run first team last year and Gillisee contribution wasn't that much.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Zero other teams through 6 weeks of RFA submitted an offer sheet for him, yet Doug Whaley was criminally inept and MUST BE FIRED for selecting such an exploitable, obviously bad tender. Despite the fact that none of the other 30 teams agreed that it was the steal of the century. If you tender him at 2nd round pick - he makes 2.7 million... 1.3 less than the deal he just signed. And you only get 1 year of control. More importantly, when you are negotiating with someone typically you don't want to start at essentially your AAV cut off.
YoloinOhio Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The only argument for keeping him that makes sense to me - is planning on cutting McCoy in 2018. even then, with Gillislee turning 27... you just draft McCoy's replacement this year or next.
HappyDays Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Referring to MG as a "backup" is an admission that your argument sucks. You use it to obscure the truth. Most people associate "backup" with a guy who only sees significant playing time if the starter gets hurt. MG sees significant playing time regardless. So when you try to exploit the readers mental association with the term "backup" in reference to a guy whose role is not similar to that generally thought of in those terms, you're using a rhetorical tool to obscure reality. And if your argument relies on obscuring the truth your argument sucks. Not at all, backup RBs get more play time than many positions but they are still backup RBs. Karlos Williams was our backup, it isn't "obscuring the truth" to say that. As an example, Marshawn Lynch had 280 attempts in Seattle in 2014, while Robert Turbin had 74 and Christine Michael had 34. Last year Shady had 234 attempts, while Gillislee had 101 attempts. You would still say Turbin and Michael were the backups. Shady was injured a few times so that's the only reason Gillislee had over 100 attempts. So yeah, still a backup RB... And still an easily replaceable skill set.
YoloinOhio Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) The interesting thing is that Rick Dennison came from Denver, where Elway tendered his starting RB at a udfa level last year. Edited April 19, 2017 by YoloinOhio
Rob's House Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Did I miss something last year? Gillislee ran through wide open holes in our offensive line, holes that existed partly because Tyrod and Shady were bigger threats to the run game. He's fast and that's it. I never thought we'd keep him and I'm actually surprised that people care about this one. I even understood Hogan to an extent, don't get this outrage at all though. He has the vision to see the holes and the wherewithal to set up his blocks to hit the right hole at the right time, and he has the speed and strength to be effective both in short yardage situations and as a home run hitter. Your analysis is like claiming Peyton Manning just threw to wide open receivers all the time without considering the affect his anticipation and accuracy had on putting the ball where and when the receiver could get open.
MAJBobby Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Yes and the Pats spending this off season will indeed have some misses... and big ones. Copy cat league....Doug Whaley has been employing this strategy for awhile now! Indeed. Welcome back. Appreciate it. This really is a no brainer. You take the pick and move on with your younger back as the BU to shady. So essentially recoup the 5th you spent on Williams. Flipping an scrap heap player for picks is proper management of the team. Not making saidnplayer very well paid. He is a BU RB for crying out loud.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Appreciate it. This really is a no brainer. You take the pick and move on with your younger back as the BU to shady. So essentially recoup the 5th you spent on Williams. Flipping an scrap heap player for picks is proper management of the team. Not making saidnplayer very well paid. He is a BU RB for crying out loud. For NE, they value him as a starter - hence where they are paying him.
Scott7975 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 I doubt NE signs Mike if it is a 2nd round tender, a fact lost on so many around here Then the Bills would still have a highly productive backup on a reasonable deal. A fact lost to the rest of you. 5th round pick is garbage. Take a look at how many 5th round picks stayed on this team the last decade. I can only think of one.
CommonCents Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The interesting thing is that Rick Dennison came from Denver, where Elway tendered his starting RB at a udfa level last year. That's a good example, they used a 4th on Booker and thought they could find good production... 174 carries 3.5 YPC 4 touchdowns Booker was supposed to be a steal, I was one of many who thought he would explode in Denver. Sometimes replacing what you have is not as easy as you think.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Then the Bills would still have a highly productive backup on a reasonable deal. A fact lost to the rest of you. 5th round pick is garbage. Take a look at how many 5th round picks stayed on this team the last decade. I can only think of one. 2nd round tender would mean... 2.7 million. for 1 year. The AAV for this contract is what... 3.25? We would only have him for the 1 year, and we wouldn't have negotiated an extension.
YoloinOhio Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Another interesting tidbit is that Belichik has spent a lot of time with D'onta Foreman. He personally went to Texas to work him out and reportedly loves him. Rumor is Dion Lewis will be getting cut.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 That's a good example, they used a 4th on Booker and thought they could find good production... 174 carries 3.5 YPC 4 touchdowns Booker was supposed to be a steal, I was one of many who thought he would explode in Denver. Sometimes replacing what you have is not as easy as you think. To be fair to booker, Anderson went out in week 8 and he also had 265 yards receiving.
YoloinOhio Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) That's a good example, they used a 4th on Booker and thought they could find good production... 174 carries 3.5 YPC 4 touchdowns Booker was supposed to be a steal, I was one of many who thought he would explode in Denver. Sometimes replacing what you have is not as easy as you think. they matched the offer sheet for Andersen. Booker only played as his backup and then when he got hurt. Elway said it made sense to tender him at the lowest level until he knew what his market actually was. Edited April 19, 2017 by YoloinOhio
akm0404 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Things that make you go hmmmm..... Karlos Williams - 93 attempts for 517 yards (5.6 avg.) and 7 TD, 11 receptions for 96 yards and 2 TD. 613 total yards and 9 total touchdowns. Mike Gillislee - 101 attempts for 577 yards (5.7 avg.) and 8 TD, 9 receptions for 50 yards and 1 TD. 627 total yards and 9 total touchdowns. Karlos Williams - a guy who can barely find a home on an NFL roster. Mike Gillislee - a guy who couldn't find a home on an NFL roster. Is it maybe, just maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe possible that you don't need top tier talent to be a productive backup running back in Buffalo?
PolishDave Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 He has the vision to see the holes and the wherewithal to set up his blocks to hit the right hole at the right time, and he has the speed and strength to be effective both in short yardage situations and as a home run hitter. Your analysis is like claiming Peyton Manning just threw to wide open receivers all the time without considering the affect his anticipation and accuracy had on putting the ball where and when the receiver could get open. Dude, You are making an analogy that suggests you think Mike Gillislee is as good of running back as Peyton Manning was a quarterback. Um..... No Pure silliness.
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