Doc Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 You can shout this until you're blue in the face, but it isn't an argument. Signing MG and Hogan to the higher round tender would've ensured we kept them for peanuts, $700k and $1M extra for one season. Instead we lost them for nothing, and a 5th rounder. When the whole point of tendering a player is to keep them. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, eh? But without have a crystal ball, again, NO TEAM would have ever put a 2nd rounder on Hogan. And his presence wouldn't have changed a thing for the Bills. As for Gilly, again I doubt any team puts a 2nd round tender on a backup RB. If there was a team that did it anytime recently, I'd like to see it. But the market for backup RB's unexpectedly was good this FA period, considering a guy like Burkhead got $3.15M. So a 2-year deal averaging $3.2M isn't a bad deal for them to match. Why would we tell patriots we aren't matching until we have to? Reports that we aren't matching are BS in my opinion. Exactly. I think they wait until the last possible second and re-sign him. I'm not going to number check your stats, but who cares. The season was beyond done by that point (after the Redskins game). It was done when they lost to Philly. MG did show show his "talent" on the long TD run against the Cowboys to finish the game. Homerun speed that consistently turns the corner. That said, it was all "preseason" football at that point. I agree. I think they are (were in Karlos' case) excellent backup RB's. Can MG be a feature back? Not sure.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Eagles got a 4th for Bryce Brown Not to be that guy but I ripped that trade the second it happened. Possibly the worst move Whaley has made. My reasoning was why waste a draft pick on an older veteran RB who has only shown flashes as a backup? So in being consistent, I hate this move for NE.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Hogan was a JAG. No team would have tendered him at the 2nd round level. And no one had an inkling that the Cheaters would sign him to a $4M/year deal, which the Bills could have matched if they wanted. As for MG, they can still match his deal, again, if they want to. KW averaged 4.25 YPG and MG average 3.67 YPG after that Redskins game. Both were under Shady's season average of 4.4 YPG, and they were healthy unlike Shady. McCoy was having an awful game against the Redskins before getting injured immediately after halftime. 10 carries for 29 yards and a fumble. Karlos and MG went off against Washington in his absence. MG in particular had 4 rushes for 81 yards and a TD in that game. The TD's were a big difference between Karlos/MG and McCoy in 2015. They scored them in bunches from all over the field......McCoy did not. The aberration was the Jets game where the already tough Jets run D overloaded to stop the run. The previous game vs the Bills they had been nickeled and dimed by the running game and they were determined not to allow it again......leaving the secondary exposed and Tyrod and Sammy had a huge game versus Revis after Revis had totally shut them down in the first matchup. How much do running backs get in trades? One of the moves I hated most by Whaley was the Brown trade. It was a terrible over pay. Getting a 5th rounder for a backup RB is a solid trade. Also, how much do we want to invest in the rb position? I know our qb can't throw well but between McCoy and MG, that's a huge chunk of change. Yeah Whaley is just all over the f*ckin place valuing RB's. Brown was a turd. MG is good.......and has made Whaley look good for picking him up. Edited April 19, 2017 by #BADOL
JM2009 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 I'm not going to number check your stats, but who cares. The season was beyond done by that point (after the Redskins game). It was done when they lost to Philly. MG did show show his "talent" on the long TD run against the Cowboys to finish the game. Homerun speed that consistently turns the corner. That said, it was all "preseason" football at that point. The Jets would have made the playoffs if they had won that last game. That game meant a lot. The Bills were determined to beat them. The game counted.
Eric Moulds on my A** Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Eagles got a 4th for Bryce Brown And we only get a 5th for our Shady Backup? Puuuuh leeeaaaasssee.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) How much do running backs get in trades? One of the moves I hated most by Whaley was the Brown trade. It was a terrible over pay. Getting a 5th rounder for a backup RB is a solid trade. Also, how much do we want to invest in the rb position? I know our qb can't throw well but between McCoy and MG, that's a huge chunk of change. The second round tender is 1.5% of the cap. Gillislee is certainly worth that to this team IMO. They may find someone to replace him but why mess with one of the best running games in decades? I looked in week 16 and the Bills were averaging a higher YPC than any team dating back to 2002 (I think was the year). I went as far back as I could. They didn't need to mess with the running game. They should have done everything that they could to keep that status quo. Edited April 19, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Maury Ballstein Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Difference is if McCoy can't go, MG could have been ok as a starter. Nope http://youtube.com/watch?v=j698yPWaWQY&feature=onebox
LABILLBACKER Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Tolbert's better days are behind him. We have to sign TD Mike or we're screwed big-time if Shady goes down. Pay him. A 5th round pick for him is garbage.
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The second round tender is 1.5% of the cap. Gillislee is certainly worth that to this team IMO. They may find someone to replace him but why mess with one of the best running games in decades? I looked in week 16 and the Bills were averaging a higher YPC than any team dating back to 2002 (I think was the year). I went as far back as I could. They didn't need to mess with the running game. They should have done everything that they could to keep that status quo. We need a real qb. No team in the NFL should care this much about a backup RB.
KellyToTasker Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Hindsight is a wonderful thing, eh? But without have a crystal ball, again, NO TEAM would have ever put a 2nd rounder on Hogan. And his presence wouldn't have changed a thing for the Bills. As for Gilly, again I doubt any team puts a 2nd round tender on a backup RB. If there was a team that did it anytime recently, I'd like to see it. But the market for backup RB's unexpectedly was good this FA period, considering a guy like Burkhead got $3.15M. So a 2-year deal averaging $3.2M isn't a bad deal for them to match. Exactly. I think they wait until the last possible second and re-sign him. I agree. I think they are (were in Karlos' case) excellent backup RB's. Can MG be a feature back? Not sure. If it were ANY other team that signed him, whatever, but BB will employ him at the right time in the right situation....He and Hogan will be the featured members of the offense against Buffalo (in Buffalo) and somehow....Gilmore will get a pick 6. It's going to be painful to watch. For most, this is why MG to New England hurts so bad.
JM2009 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 We need a real qb. No team in the NFL should care this much about a backup RB. TT is the least of this team's problems. We could use a real WR corp too. And a real GM who doesn't think EJ had the "it" factor and wanted him to start over Taylor. TT was brought in to manage a run oriented offense, and 47 TDs, 15 turnovers with 1000 yards rushing tells me he did ok.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Nope http://youtube.com/watch?v=j698yPWaWQY&feature=onebox More like "Yep". He had 12 rushes for 85 yards in that game. Running for 7 yards per carry as the lead back against the Pats will apparently get you an offer sheet.
Doc Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 McCoy was having an awful game against the Redskins before getting injured immediately after halftime. 10 carries for 29 yards and a fumble. Karlos and MG went off against Washington in his absence. MG in particular had 4 rushes for 81 yards and a TD in that game. The TD's were a big difference between Karlos/MG and McCoy in 2015. They scored them in bunches from all over the field......McCoy did not. The aberration was the Jets game where the already tough Jets run D overloaded to stop the run. The previous game vs the Bills they had been nickeled and dimed by the running game and they were determined not to allow it again......leaving the secondary exposed and Tyrod and Sammy had a huge game versus Revis after Revis had totally shut them down in the first matchup. Did you watch that game BADOL? On the opening possession of the game, the Skins scored a TD. The Bills' next series, Shady got 3 carries for 13 yards (4.3 YPC) but the Bills had to punt. The Skins proceeded to score another TD. The Bills get the ball and Shady had 1 run for 8 yards (5.25 YPC) but again they had to punt. The Skins score yet another TD. The game was over by that point.
John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 We need a real qb. No team in the NFL should care this much about a backup RB. people need to stop turning EVERY conversation about the qb TT has nothing to do with this......the offensive scheme that Dennison imploys is run heavy....period
KellyToTasker Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 The Jets would have made the playoffs if they had won that last game. That game meant a lot. The Bills were determined to beat them. The game counted. There's a big difference between an early season game that is meaningful and the finale that involves an eliminated team. Meaning, not ALL players are completely in the game from start to finish (i.e., self-preservation kicks in). That game did mean alot to select individuals on the Bills side (Rex, Tyrod, Sammy, etc.). Others....Not so much. The Jets were a football team that was worse than their record conveyed. Hence, they couldn't beat an already eliminated team, just to make the playoffs.
FireChan Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Hindsight is a wonderful thing, eh? But without have a crystal ball, again, NO TEAM would have ever put a 2nd rounder on Hogan. And his presence wouldn't have changed a thing for the Bills. As for Gilly, again I doubt any team puts a 2nd round tender on a backup RB. If there was a team that did it anytime recently, I'd like to see it. But the market for backup RB's unexpectedly was good this FA period, considering a guy like Burkhead got $3.15M. So a 2-year deal averaging $3.2M isn't a bad deal for them to match. Exactly. I think they wait until the last possible second and re-sign him. I agree. I think they are (were in Karlos' case) excellent backup RB's. Can MG be a feature back? Not sure. Again, these are not arguments. These are you saying it wouldn't happen. Which means nothing. MG should have received the second round tender. It made little sense to risk losing him for virtually no reward. Refute that argument instead of saying nothing. Edited April 19, 2017 by FireChan
JM2009 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 More like "Yep". He had 12 rushes for 85 yards in that game. Running for 7 yards per carry as the lead back against the Pats will apparently get you an offer sheet. We lose a key part to why the Bills lead the NFL in rushing in 2016, a solid compliment to McCoy, to NE no less,and no one is supposed to be upset by it. SMH This team is flooded with talent and good depth to some of these posters I guess.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 We need a real qb. No team in the NFL should care this much about a backup RB. So, we as a message board, should be dedicating more time to lamenting pointlessly about how we don't have a franchise QB?
John from Riverside Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Belicheck to Whaley: Didnt he die at the end of this?
JM2009 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 There's a big difference between an early season game that is meaningful and the finale that involves an eliminated team. Meaning, not ALL players are completely in the game from start to finish (i.e., self-preservation kicks in). That game did mean alot to select individuals on the Bills side (Rex, Tyrod, Sammy, etc.). Others....Not so much. The Jets were a football team that was worse than their record conveyed. Hence, they couldn't beat an already eliminated team, just to make the playoffs. We had the better QB and the better team in 2015. I watched that game and every Bills player was in it to win. That is why they quit in the finale against an then awful Jets team this past season. Bench TT after the best game of his career and start EJ because of Whaley's infatuation with the guy. The organization showed they were not interested in winning.
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