section122 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 I don't have to defend every QB taken. You are the one defending a team that has spent only 2 picks on the QB position in the first 2 rounds in the last TWENTY years. My god, when will people wake up. This post is about Whaley not the Bills. You also can't just bemoan the hits without also taking into account the misses. You whine and cry about Carr but don't talk about the 3 guys taken above him that were wastes of a 1st rounder. Whaley has done quite a bit to try and address the QB position. He has brought in countless FA (off the top of my head TT, Leinhart, Kolb, etc..) made trades (Thad, Cassel,etc..), had a first rounder on the team, and drafted a guy last year. Whaley himself hasn't failed for lack of trying at the QB position. He has failed because they aren't there. My god when will you stop crying...
Gugny Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Perhaps we should let Dak Prescott play a few years before fitting him for a gold jacket. Carr is the furthest along but none of those guys has proven to be a franchise QB yet let alone an elite QB. If you gave that same list 3 years ago Kaep and RGIII would have been on it. You want to be a QB driven team that consistently competes for championships you need a HOF type like Brady, Rodgers or Roethlisberger. Those guys on your list have potential......but that's about it. Who is to say Carr won't turn into Philip Rivers part 2 in a couple years. Exactly. Perfectly stated, IMO.
jeffismagic Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Great post. Everyone on this forum seems to refer to Winston and Mariota as franchise QBs. What have these guys won? They've both had soild starts to their career. Winston and Mariota are both unique QBs. Countless guys have started their career hot before opponents figure out how to game plan against them. If you can't see how much more fun it would be to follow a team with a Winston or Mariotta as the QB of the team vs a Bills fan who has to spend months watching as his team "watches film" on his QB and asks him to take a paycut I don't know what to tell you. This post is about Whaley not the Bills. You also can't just bemoan the hits without also taking into account the misses. You whine and cry about Carr but don't talk about the 3 guys taken above him that were wastes of a 1st rounder. Whaley has done quite a bit to try and address the QB position. He has brought in countless FA (off the top of my head TT, Leinhart, Kolb, etc..) made trades (Thad, Cassel,etc..), had a first rounder on the team, and drafted a guy last year. Whaley himself hasn't failed for lack of trying at the QB position. He has failed because they aren't there. My god when will you stop crying... So if we draft a WR we have to apologize if the other WR's taken in the 1st fail? Hard to follow your argument. Yes, Whaley brought in Kolb, Leinhart, and Cassell, Thad Lewis, and TT. Wow, incredible. Time to shut up and clap for such great QB play. Edited April 19, 2017 by jeffismagic
Best Player Available Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 "Franchise" QBs since 2013: 2013: None 2014: Derek Carr Round 2 pick 4. Bills picked Sammy at 4 and didn't pick until 41. Maybe in a trade down Carr is possible. 2015: Jameis and Mariota went 1&2. Bills had no chance at either of these guys 2016: Dak in the 4th and Maybe Wentz in the first. No chance at Wentz and Dak went to a perfect situation. So in conclusion Whaley missed on Carr and maybe Dak. It isn't as easy as just identifying you need one and getting one. There has to be one available to you. 2013---- Say what you want Whaley owns the Ej pick. Don't forget he had the Whaley "it" factor among other comments Whaley made regarding the pick.
CanadianFan Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Come on. Get your insights right. When did Leaks stop coming out? When Ryan Brothers were out. Who are openly hostile to Whaley? Buffalo News. Conclusion: Whaley is the worst GM in the NFL for NOT LEAKING TO THE PRESS. He hasn't buddied up to the press here or elsewhere, courted the relationship, give them some inside info on the hush hush, make them look good in their job. So they vent at Whaley. Just like fans venting! Edited April 19, 2017 by CanadianFan
FireChan Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Carr is the furthest along but none of those guys has proven to be a franchise QB yet let alone an elite QB. If you gave that same list 3 years ago Kaep and RGIII would have been on it. You want to be a QB driven team that consistently competes for championships you need a HOF type like Brady, Rodgers or Roethlisberger. Those guys on your list have potential......but that's about it. Who is to say Carr won't turn into Philip Rivers part 2 in a couple years. Phillip Rivers ain't a franchise QB? What?
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Come on. A guy calls you up out of the blue and says I'll give you McCoy for.....Kiko Alonzo? Buddy Nix could have made that "deal". Heck, RALPH could have made that deal----from the other side! The issue wasn't the trade it was the contract extension. If McCoy were a free agent and were interested in playing for the Bills I doubt they would have paid that much to get him. But they'd already swallowed the hook and didn't want the embarrassment of a contract holdout. It was a bizarre turn of events........the Jaguars are getting a taste of it having traded Julius Thomas for Brandon Albert......and SURPRISE.....Albert wants a relocation fee to move to Jacksonville while Julius is just fine with his deal moving to Miami.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 2013---- Say what you want Whaley owns the Ej pick. Don't forget he had the Whaley "it" factor among other comments Whaley made regarding the pick. Dont forget that he was also aware enough to trade down and still get his pick of QBs, and that trade down turned into Kiko and now McCoy. That pick wasnt just EJ, it was "EJ&Shady".
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Phillip Rivers ain't a franchise QB? What? He's a franchise QB but not in that elite level. Like I said: "You want to be a QB driven team that consistently competes for championships you need a HOF type like Brady, Rodgers or Roethlisberger." That guy he ain't. His level of play doesn't significantly raise the whole team thru talent ups and downs like those others.
FireChan Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 He's a franchise QB but not in that elite level. Like I said: "You want to be a QB driven team that consistently competes for championships you need a HOF type like Brady, Rodgers or Roethlisberger." That guy he ain't. His level of play doesn't significantly raise the whole team thru talent ups and downs like those others. Oh yeah, Carr ain't a HoFer but he's close to if not at franchise level.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 3rd head coach...ok, i'll give you the point about "he was not allowed to hire" marrone...russ brandon rex....russ brandon sold the pegulas on rex (tickets and publicity)....oh and shortly after dw gets an extension for playing along. mc dermott...the pegulas were not gonna make the same mistake twice....and hopefully they've learned from dw's handling of the qb situation....however.... the biggest common denominator or reason that we are on our 3rd coach is because of dw's pi$$ing matches with the coaches over qbs. No it isnt. Doug left due to the available free-money buyout. Rex got canned due to his failure on Defense. Finding a franchise QB has nothng too do with any of the above. I was pretty clear I was addressing the criticisms regarding his ability to draft and how many of his draft picks were still on the team. But to your point, as others have shown, there havent been many/any franchise QBs available for us to get. Oh yeah, Carr ain't a HoFer but he's close to if not at franchise level. For 1 year so far.
FireChan Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 No it isnt. Doug left due to the available free-money buyout. Rex got canned due to his failure on Defense. I was pretty clear I was addressing the criticisms regarding his ability to draft and how many of his draft picks were still on the team. But to your point, as others have shown, there havent been many/any franchise QBs available for us to get. For 1 year so far. Closer to 2, but you're right no sure thing. I like his chances going forward.
Cherrybone Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Whaley have done a ok job. I don't think he's anywhere near the worst. All you have to do is look at the entire AFC and tell me how many of the 16 teams have franchise qb's I'll wait. That position is very hard to acquire. The only thing you can do is hope that you finally get your guy. But the AFC shows that it's hard to do.
BADOLBILZ Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Oh yeah, Carr ain't a HoFer but he's close to if not at franchise level. I'm talking about Rivers.......but Carr hasn't surpassed Rivers yet......Rivers had huge stat years too and got some playoff shots when the talent around him was good too. Raiders could just be in an uptick talent-wise......in 3 years if they fall off talent-wise......will Carr be able to will them into contention every year like Aaron Rodgers? If not, then he's not elite.
mannc Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) If you can't see how much more fun it would be to follow a team with a Winston or Mariotta as the QB of the team vs a Bills fan who has to spend months watching as his team "watches film" on his QB and asks him to take a paycut I don't know what to tell you. You do realize that Tyrod Taylor's numbers as an NFL starter are at least as good as Jameis Winston's, right? (Taylor actually had a significantly higher QB rating than Winston in both 2015 and 2016 and that's not even taking into consideration Taylor's contribution in the running game.) People are in love with Winston because of his potential (and rightly so), but both he and Taylor have approximately the same number of NFL starts. So why can't you "have fun" following a team with Tyrod Taylor at QB? Edited April 19, 2017 by mannc
jeffismagic Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 You do realize that Tyrod Taylor's numbers as an NFL starter are at least as good as Jameis Winston's, right? (Taylor actually had a significantly higher QB rating than Winston in both 2015 and 2016 and that's not even taking into consideration Taylor's contribution in the running game.) People are in love with Winston because of his potential (and rightly so), but both he and Taylor have approximately the same number of NFL starts. So why can't you "have fun" following a team with Tyrod Taylor at QB? Winston is a real QB you can build a team around. TT is just a guy that we are paying money to because McDermott coaches scared.
DrDawkinstein Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Closer to 2, but you're right no sure thing. I like his chances going forward. So do I, for sure. Just wrangling some perspective.
section122 Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 So if we draft a WR we have to apologize if the other WR's taken in the 1st fail? Hard to follow your argument. Yes, Whaley brought in Kolb, Leinhart, and Cassell, Thad Lewis, and TT. Wow, incredible. Time to shut up and clap for such great QB play. Nope don't have to apologize for the WR unless you spent as much time whining about it as you have QB. What you have stated over and over and over and over (is that enough) is that the Bills have failed because they haven't tried. They have tried it just hasn't gotten the results. The thing is there are only 2 players you could even call misses in his time span and even they are fully proven yet. The other issue you beat is the Bills have to take a QB this year. You seem to think that just picking one and hoping it works is the best strategy. That is why I brought up all of the failures. I get it. You love Mahomes and anyone but TT. That doesn't mean that magically the QB you draft will be any good. It doesn't matter what your screen name says. The Bills have clearly done their diligence on this class and that is all we as fans can ask. Past that you wait and see if their valuations are correct. 2013---- Say what you want Whaley owns the Ej pick. Don't forget he had the Whaley "it" factor among other comments Whaley made regarding the pick. I don't doubt he had a say in the pick. The situation was unique in that it was probably the worst QB draft class ever and Buddy got taped on the phone so Fitz was no longer an option. The Bills HAD to take a QB. During the draft process everyone loved the way EJ carried himself. So they took their shot on the high character guy and missed. However people can't say Whaley hasn't tried to get a franchise qb or that the Bills should take their shot regardless of the result. Those 2 narratives don't fit with each other with regards to the EJ pick. You can push one or the other but there are posters (hint see the first quoted post) that try to push both to knock Whaley.
mannc Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 (edited) Winston is a real QB you can build a team around. TT is just a guy that we are paying money to because McDermott coaches scared. So says you. This entirely subjective opinion is certainly not supported by the players' comparative statistics, is it? Edited April 19, 2017 by mannc
jeffismagic Posted April 19, 2017 Posted April 19, 2017 Nope don't have to apologize for the WR unless you spent as much time whining about it as you have QB. What you have stated over and over and over and over (is that enough) is that the Bills have failed because they haven't tried. They have tried it just hasn't gotten the results. The thing is there are only 2 players you could even call misses in his time span and even they are fully proven yet. The other issue you beat is the Bills have to take a QB this year. You seem to think that just picking one and hoping it works is the best strategy. That is why I brought up all of the failures. I get it. You love Mahomes and anyone but TT. That doesn't mean that magically the QB you draft will be any good. It doesn't matter what your screen name says. The Bills have clearly done their diligence on this class and that is all we as fans can ask. Past that you wait and see if their valuations are correct. I don't doubt he had a say in the pick. The situation was unique in that it was probably the worst QB draft class ever and Buddy got taped on the phone so Fitz was no longer an option. The Bills HAD to take a QB. During the draft process everyone loved the way EJ carried himself. So they took their shot on the high character guy and missed. However people can't say Whaley hasn't tried to get a franchise qb or that the Bills should take their shot regardless of the result. Those 2 narratives don't fit with each other with regards to the EJ pick. You can push one or the other but there are posters (hint see the first quoted post) that try to push both to knock Whaley. No, I have stated that if Mahomes and Trubisky are gone before we pick I don't want Kizer or Watson. So your summary of my position is wrong. As for EJ, I think that was Nix, for better or worse with Whaley setting up the board and Nix pulling the trigger. No one can say for sure but that's my belief and I am sticking with that until evidence comes out to the contrary.
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