Rotoworld ranks Whaley as worst GM in NFL

[teef]

maybe this will all work out. finger crossed!

[jeffismagic]

If McDermott runs the draft then we are back to the Jauron days.

 

Drafting fast, smaller players to fit the bland zone cover scheme of the defensive head coach.

Edited April 19, 2017 by jeffismagic

[BillsFan4]

He was the director of pro personnel, he had say in the draft picks and he was a GM in waiting, everyone knew this even us fans.

 

Here is the article about the Bills having the least amount of draft picks starting on the roster. http://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-buffalo-news/20161219/282471413508552

A pro personnel director's job is to find pro players, not college ones. But I think he was only pro personnel director for his first year or two here, then he was player personnel director.

 

Still though, he wasn't GM and the GM usually has final say. It's a collaborative effort though. Everyone from GM to head of scouting to the local scouts have input, and like I said in my first post, we can argue who had the most influence but none of us know. It very well could have been Whaley, or it could have been Nix, but none of us know.

 

 

Also, I have some issues with that article. They are measuring Whaley by how many draft picks are on the roster. But there's no set timeline to it. There are drafted players on some rosters that go back 10+ years, and the Bills have drafted horribly over the last 15 years...

They also don't take into account the quality of those drafted players. Just because a drafted player is on the roster doesn't mean he's an impact player. He could be a 3rd string guy who sees 10 plays a game or less. We don't know.

Also, they use Cleveland as an example of a team with more draft picks. Well of course they do. They've had a record number of picks (which also isn't taken into account in this article), and they released a bunch of very good NFL players to make room for these newly acquired draft picks. They also kept every single draft pick they made IIRC.

The article also doesn't seem to factor in players that were drafted by the Bills and left in free agency to start elsewhere (due to Bills multiple scheme changes every season or two).

 

It would have been a more fair comparison to compare draft picks on the roster from 2013/14 to now, since that's how long Whaley has been GM. Or at the least 2010 to now since that's how long he's been here.

And the one part of the article that I seen that did this, looked at 2010 to now, had 24 drafted players that played 10 or more games, which was right in line with the other teams they listed (Seattle had 25 in the same time, Green Bay had 23, Ravens had 21, Saints had 19, Steelers had 20, Pats had 24).

 

I am not trying to argue that Whaley is some great GM, because I don't think that. But I don't think he's been horrible either, and definitely not worst in the NFL IMO. Bottom half? Sure.

 

I'd just like to see a fair comparison is all. This article looks exactly the same as the one posted in the Buffalo News, and I just felt like that article had a clear agenda to make Whaley look bad, and it escluded a number of factors to do so.

[oldmanfan]

I will have to find it again, but a writer for one of the football websites took Graham apart on this. He added up daft picks on rosters only from drafts since Whaley has been GM, and found no significant differences between us and other teams.

 

Not to say Whaley can't be better at drafting, but it's just another example of unjustified criticism.

[GunnerBill]

I will have to find it again, but a writer for one of the football websites took Graham apart on this. He added up daft picks on rosters only from drafts since Whaley has been GM, and found no significant differences between us and other teams.

 

Not to say Whaley can't be better at drafting, but it's just another example of unjustified criticism.

 

This.

[Riverboat Richie]

I will have to find it again, but a writer for one of the football websites took Graham apart on this. He added up daft picks on rosters only from drafts since Whaley has been GM, and found no significant differences between us and other teams.

 

Not to say Whaley can't be better at drafting, but it's just another example of unjustified criticism.

 

You remember that old quote right? :"if that's all you're looking for is fault, that's all you will find"

[DrDawkinstein]

 

Just speculating, but when the Pegula's purchased the Bills, maybe there was an agreement in place that covered Whaley being employed for a certain amount of years. The context here is not to mean solely for Whaley, but a number of Front Office Folks. Look at the Scott Berchtold situation, he wasn't fired. He was replaced then re-positioned within the organization.

 

Again, just speculating.......

 

The Pegulas gave Whaley an extension on January 10, 2016.

[section122]

I know everyone wants to jump on the hate Whaley train but this article is terrible. It is a year to year ranking which is important to keep in mind.

 

Here are some gems:

 

Ozzie Newsome at 5. Ozzie has a reputation as one of the best GMs in the game and deservedly so. However the team no longer has Ray Lewis and they have made the playoffs once in the last 4 years. The last 2 years they have gone 8-8 and 5-11.

 

Dave Gettleman at 8. He actually moved up from 7. In a year where they went from SB runner up to 6-10 and had the Josh Norman screw up.

 

Rick SMith at 9. The same Rick Smith who threw 72 million at Brock Osweiller without ever meeting him and then traded him AND a 2nd a year later to get rid of his mistake.

 

Stephen Jones at 10. This is one where he has them ranked too low imo. I would put him over the above 3 at least.

 

Kevin Colbert at 13 with this writeup: "At some point, Colbert is going to need one of his Cameron Heyward/Jarvis Jones/Ryan Shazier/Bud Duprees to actually be a star." Jarvis Jones no longer plays for the Steelers

 

Jon Robinson at 20. Criminally low for the work he has done with the Titans imo.

 

And on and on...

 

There are reasons to not like Whaley but if you already held that belief this article shouldn't be used as ammunition to prove your point...

Edited April 19, 2017 by section122

[DrDawkinstein]

Doug Whaley was officially named Bills GM on May 13, 2013. That is just UNDER 4 years ago.

 

Within those 4 years, he is now on:

 

2nd Ownership

3rd Head Coach (which he is not allowed to hire)

4th Offensive Coordinator

5th! Defensive Coordinator

 

 

All of that turn over in FOUR YEARS, all of that scheme changing in FOUR YEARS, and people wonder why he has a hard time "building a roster" and hanging on to draft picks?!?

[billsredneck1]

Did you read that from my post? Hes responsible for not coming to the conclusion his hcs did: EJ Manuel wasnt good enough that warranted sticking with him. You know being stubborned trotting out a bust for a qb and only after a falling out with his coaching staff was Orton brought in.

agree with this.

 

i did not have the time to read all of the pages so i'm sorry if i'm repeating any points already made.

 

i'm also one of those that think whaley should have gone with rex.

 

if not for marrone, orton wouldn't have been here and ej would have started that entire year.

 

if not for rex, tyrod wouldn't have been brought here nor any other threat to ej either. he does not deserve on ounce of credit for taylor.

 

if not for mc dermott, no way does whaley bring tyrod back. he more than likely would have been hard headed and egotistical enough to put c.j. out there and keep e.j. as a backup. he ignored the qb postion since the day HE drafted e.j.

 

i'm not even gonna mention the sammy deal.

 

if he is in sole charge of this draft, he will take watson and probably be bone headed enough to trade up for him. then we will have 3 qbs with the same exact skill set and the same weaknesses....and none of which are franchise changing material. i hope he does not have that power anymore.

Edited April 19, 2017 by billsredneck1

[Dr. Who]

I don't think everyone is on the hate Whaley train. Those who dislike him are very vocal which exaggerates their number.

The mitigating circumstances would be difficult for any GM to deal with. I like him, but if Leroi's big board is correct, I have my doubts that Whaley is the main force in deciding who we draft. I suspect qb would be a priority, not a smokescreen. Regardless, maybe my speculation is off-base; on balance, I think Whaley is actually slightly above average, so not the worst in the league.

[billsredneck1]

Doug Whaley was officially named Bills GM on May 13, 2013. That is just UNDER 4 years ago.

 

Within those 4 years, he is now on:

 

2nd Ownership

3rd Head Coach (which he is not allowed to hire)

4th Offensive Coordinator

5th! Defensive Coordinator

 

 

All of that turn over in FOUR YEARS, all of that scheme changing in FOUR YEARS, and people wonder why he has a hard time "building a roster" and hanging on to draft picks?!?

3rd head coach...ok, i'll give you the point about "he was not allowed to hire"

 

marrone...russ brandon

 

rex....russ brandon sold the pegulas on rex (tickets and publicity)....oh and shortly after dw gets an extension for playing along.

 

mc dermott...the pegulas were not gonna make the same mistake twice....and hopefully they've learned from dw's handling of the qb situation....however....

 

the biggest common denominator or reason that we are on our 3rd coach is because of dw's pi$$ing matches with the coaches over qbs.

Edited April 19, 2017 by billsredneck1

[Best Player Available]

Doug Whaley was officially named Bills GM on May 13, 2013. That is just UNDER 4 years ago.

 

Within those 4 years, he is now on:

 

2nd Ownership

3rd Head Coach (which he is not allowed to hire)

4th Offensive Coordinator

5th! Defensive Coordinator

 

 

All of that turn over in FOUR YEARS, all of that scheme changing in FOUR YEARS, and people wonder why he has a hard time "building a roster" and hanging on to draft picks?!?

 

Finding a franchise QB has nothng too do with any of the above.

[section122]

Finding a franchise QB has nothng too do with any of the above.

"Franchise" QBs since 2013:

 

2013: None

 

2014: Derek Carr Round 2 pick 4. Bills picked Sammy at 4 and didn't pick until 41. Maybe in a trade down Carr is possible.

 

2015: Jameis and Mariota went 1&2. Bills had no chance at either of these guys

 

2016: Dak in the 4th and Maybe Wentz in the first. No chance at Wentz and Dak went to a perfect situation.

 

So in conclusion Whaley missed on Carr and maybe Dak. It isn't as easy as just identifying you need one and getting one. There has to be one available to you.

[jeffismagic]

"Franchise" QBs since 2013:

 

2013: None

 

2014: Derek Carr Round 2 pick 4. Bills picked Sammy at 4 and didn't pick until 41. Maybe in a trade down Carr is possible.

 

2015: Jameis and Mariota went 1&2. Bills had no chance at either of these guys

 

2016: Dak in the 4th and Maybe Wentz in the first. No chance at Wentz and Dak went to a perfect situation.

 

So in conclusion Whaley missed on Carr and maybe Dak. It isn't as easy as just identifying you need one and getting one. There has to be one available to you.

 

So what will the excuse be next year if the Bills pass on a QB at ten and a few picks later he comes in and goes Dak Prescott on the NFL?

[Mr. WEO]

Exactly. His trades for Hughes and McCoy are some of the best deals in recent NFL history. He needs to stop trading up for non qbs however.

 

 

Come on. A guy calls you up out of the blue and says I'll give you McCoy for.....Kiko Alonzo?

 

Buddy Nix could have made that "deal". Heck, RALPH could have made that deal----from the other side!

[BADOLBILZ]

"Franchise" QBs since 2013:

 

2013: None

 

2014: Derek Carr Round 2 pick 4. Bills picked Sammy at 4 and didn't pick until 41. Maybe in a trade down Carr is possible.

 

2015: Jameis and Mariota went 1&2. Bills had no chance at either of these guys

 

2016: Dak in the 4th and Maybe Wentz in the first. No chance at Wentz and Dak went to a perfect situation.

 

So in conclusion Whaley missed on Carr and maybe Dak. It isn't as easy as just identifying you need one and getting one. There has to be one available to you.

 

Carr is the furthest along but none of those guys has proven to be a franchise QB yet let alone an elite QB.

 

If you gave that same list 3 years ago Kaep and RGIII would have been on it.

 

You want to be a QB driven team that consistently competes for championships you need a HOF type like Brady, Rodgers or Roethlisberger.

 

Those guys on your list have potential......but that's about it. Who is to say Carr won't turn into Philip Rivers part 2 in a couple years.

[section122]

 

So what will the excuse be next year if the Bills pass on a QB at ten and a few picks later he comes in and goes Dak Prescott on the NFL?

 

What that post shows is there weren't guys available to the Bills when they drafted that turned out to be franchise guys. Maybe 2. Dak is a wait and see as well. The lack of QBs isn't a Bills specific issue it is a league wide issue save for a couple of teams.

 

I know you are QB or bust guy but just because you are in love with a couple of guys doesn't mean they will be franchise guys. Drafting guys you don't think can be "the guy" is just as dumb of a strategy as purposely ignoring the position. You can't even say the Bills haven't done their homework this class or last as they had multiple guys in and meetings with all of the top guys.

 

What will your excuse be when these guys come in and go Jared Goff, Paxton Lynch, Ej Manuel, Manziel, Bortles, or Bridgewater on the league? All of them were 1st round picks and haven't done jack.

 

Carr is the furthest along but none of those guys has proven to be a franchise QB yet let alone an elite QB.

 

If you gave that same list 3 years ago Kaep and RGIII would have been on it.

 

You want to be a QB driven team that consistently competes for championships you need a HOF type like Brady, Rodgers or Roethlisberger.

 

Those guys on your list have potential......but that's about it. Who is to say Carr won't turn into Philip Rivers part 2 in a couple years.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. None have proven to be a franchise guy but Carr and Dak have shown the most. That is why I used quotes around "franchise". So even being generous there are only 2 guys fans could bemoan. There are a whole bunch of misses though...

Edited April 19, 2017 by section122

[jeffismagic]

 

What that post shows is there weren't guys available to the Bills when they drafted that turned out to be franchise guys. Maybe 2. Dak is a wait and see as well. The lack of QBs isn't a Bills specific issue it is a league wide issue save for a couple of teams.

 

I know you are QB or bust guy but just because you are in love with a couple of guys doesn't mean they will be franchise guys. Drafting guys you don't think can be "the guy" is just as dumb of a strategy as purposely ignoring the position. You can't even say the Bills haven't done their homework this class or last as they had multiple guys in and meetings with all of the top guys.

 

What will your excuse be when these guys come in and go Jared Goff, Paxton Lynch, Ej Manuel, Manziel, Bortles, or Bridgewater on the league? All of them were 1st round picks and haven't done jack.

 

I don't have to defend every QB taken. You are the one defending a team that has spent only 2 picks on the QB position in the first 2 rounds in the last TWENTY years. My god, when will people wake up.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

Carr is the furthest along but none of those guys has proven to be a franchise QB yet let alone an elite QB.

 

If you gave that same list 3 years ago Kaep and RGIII would have been on it.

 

You want to be a QB driven team that consistently competes for championships you need a HOF type like Brady, Rodgers or Roethlisberger.

 

Those guys on your list have potential......but that's about it. Who is to say Carr won't turn into Philip Rivers part 2 in a couple years.

Great post. Everyone on this forum seems to refer to Winston and Mariota as franchise QBs. What have these guys won? They've both had soild starts to their career. Winston and Mariota are both unique QBs. Countless guys have started their career hot before opponents figure out how to game plan against them.