PromoTheRobot Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I've been dealing with a slow decline of my knees for years. Almost all the cartilage is gone on the interior side (medial) of both knees. Ironically the rest of my knee is fine other than mild bursitis. My orthopedist is suggesting a knee resurfacing, or partial knee replacement, which involves installing an artificial cartilage in the damaged area. The downside is it breaks down and I'll be getting a full knee replacement in 10-15 years. But my doctor also mentioned, as an aside, stem cell therapy. That involves a clinic harvesting your own body's cells and injecting them into a damaged joint, where the cells help regenerate cartilage. However the US government (the people who always say they don't want to get between you and your doctor) forbids the cultivation of stem cells. So US clinics are forced to reinject your cells the same day. However if you go overseas, those clinics take 6 weeks or so to increase cell concentration before injection. The cost? $8-10K for same-day therapy, double that for cultured cell therapy. But because it's still considered experimental insurance won't pay for it, and it's likely your doctor can't prescribe it. (so you can't pay with HSA dollars.) So if you want this it comes out of your pocket. Does it work? There aren't many studies because (surprise) the government limits stem cell research. But what studies there are show some level of improvement. So I'm curious if anyone here considered or went through this therapy and what is your take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Be interested on hearing about that also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 here's an article from December don't know if you've seen it http://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-finds-surprising-results-on-first-ever-test-of-stem-cell-therapy-to-treat-arthritis/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 here's an article from December don't know if you've seen it http://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/mayo-clinic-finds-surprising-results-on-first-ever-test-of-stem-cell-therapy-to-treat-arthritis/ Great find. I've actually read a blog by Dr.Shapiro. There was also a study done in Spain with similar positive but inconclusive findings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 my motherr just had her second knee replaced. when you were here ptr she had been 6 months in to having her new knee. if you do ever go that route just realize you'd can't at all be immobile. she's only done so well because she didnt' slow down a bit. i'd definitely be curious to hear about whats going on with this now as my maternal grandpa and mother have had knee issues. luckily i take more after my paternal side physically but hair wise maternally, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Mom went in for knee replacement in Feb 2016 and left the hospital one month and four surgeries later with one less leg. Damn near died twice. Better luck to you bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 On the flip side, both of my sisters have had partial knee replacements and are doing great. Yikes! I suspect there were some other factors involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 17, 2017 Author Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) So not much experience with stem cell clinics. I've been immersing myself all day today and came across this blog: https://ipscell.com/ A doctor at Cal Davis who works in the field. He doesn't come right out and says don't do stem cell therapy, but gives you a lot to think about. Despite there being 600 clinics in the USA and many more overseas, most are selling snake oil, and even the ones that are legit undersell the risks. It's still experimental. But getting your knees replaced doesn't sound so appealing either. Edited April 17, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 A few friends and family have had both knees replaced, the 2nd knee a few months after recovery from the first. There was no pattern of health or abuse (running daily on concrete for 30 years) that would clinch everything, all kids of weight and health and fitness went under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Lots to consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Interesting information... money breeds illegitimacy in some situations PTR is right that the return of snake oils salesmen seems to be prevelant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I use a pipe sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 last i looked there was ZERO dollars invested in this kind of stuff by private/corporate $$$$, which told me a lot at this time, but maybe they see it will be effective and worth investing in by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Avenger Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I had terrible osteoarthritis in my knees at an early age - they just wore out. When the pain became too much and I went to see an orthopedist he put my x-rays up and just said "wow" (not in a good way) - said I had the knees of someone in their 80s and I was only 40. We tried a number of different things - visco-supplementation, physical therapy - in the end my knees were too far gone to get benefit from those therapies so I had my right knee replaced when I was 41 and my left when I was 42. The bone on bone pain I had is gone and while I didn't run the Boston Marathon this morning, I will be spending the next week walking around Disney with the family - something I could never have done before the replacements. For my the choice was suck it up on have the replacements and I couldn't live the life I wanted. The thing to know about knee replacements is that you won't really get better than you were before. You get less pain, but your range of motion isn't going to get better than it was. If you are starting to lose range of motion you need to do something because once that goes it doesn't really come back. Good luck, whatever your future path holds.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I've been dealing with a slow decline of my knees for years. Almost all the cartilage is gone on the interior side (medial) of both knees. Ironically the rest of my knee is fine other than mild bursitis. My orthopedist is suggesting a knee resurfacing, or partial knee replacement, which involves installing an artificial cartilage in the damaged area. The downside is it breaks down and I'll be getting a full knee replacement in 10-15 years. But my doctor also mentioned, as an aside, stem cell therapy. That involves a clinic harvesting your own body's cells and injecting them into a damaged joint, where the cells help regenerate cartilage. However the US government (the people who always say they don't want to get between you and your doctor) forbids the cultivation of stem cells. So US clinics are forced to reinject your cells the same day. However if you go overseas, those clinics take 6 weeks or so to increase cell concentration before injection. The cost? $8-10K for same-day therapy, double that for cultured cell therapy. But because it's still considered experimental insurance won't pay for it, and it's likely your doctor can't prescribe it. (so you can't pay with HSA dollars.) So if you want this it comes out of your pocket. Does it work? There aren't many studies because (surprise) the government limits stem cell research. But what studies there are show some level of improvement. So I'm curious if anyone here considered or went through this therapy and what is your take? Have you tried supplements or a different diet ? I have bad arthritis in my back and knee`s,shoulder. Had acl ,mcl and meniscus re-con 28 yrs ago and my acl is tore again with arthritis and its pretty much pain free taking supplements and eating right. Honey and cinnamon with green tea ,plus eating salads ,greens are good for anti-inflam. Cherries ,fish oil also help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 17, 2017 Author Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) I had terrible osteoarthritis in my knees at an early age - they just wore out. When the pain became too much and I went to see an orthopedist he put my x-rays up and just said "wow" (not in a good way) - said I had the knees of someone in their 80s and I was only 40. We tried a number of different things - visco-supplementation, physical therapy - in the end my knees were too far gone to get benefit from those therapies so I had my right knee replaced when I was 41 and my left when I was 42. The bone on bone pain I had is gone and while I didn't run the Boston Marathon this morning, I will be spending the next week walking around Disney with the family - something I could never have done before the replacements. For my the choice was suck it up on have the replacements and I couldn't live the life I wanted. The thing to know about knee replacements is that you won't really get better than you were before. You get less pain, but your range of motion isn't going to get better than it was. If you are starting to lose range of motion you need to do something because once that goes it doesn't really come back. Good luck, whatever your future path holds.... I'm not as bad as you were. I can still walk short distances before the knees start hurting. A big reason I want to avoid any knee replacements is I want to be able to keep playing hockey. Have you tried supplements or a different diet ? I have bad arthritis in my back and knee`s,shoulder. Had acl ,mcl and meniscus re-con 28 yrs ago and my acl is tore again with arthritis and its pretty much pain free taking supplements and eating right. Honey and cinnamon with green tea ,plus eating salads ,greens are good for anti-inflam. Cherries ,fish oil also help. My problem is cartilage wearing away. Unless these supplements can grow it back, they won't help. That's why I'm looking at the stem cell options. Edited April 17, 2017 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Paid 4 bones for laser work on my eyes, still in great shape 8 years later. Will see how it goes if my knees give out, didn't damage them during a long hoops career gratefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffaloed in Pa Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I'm not as bad as you were. I can still walk short distances before the knees start hurting. A big reason I want to avoid any knee replacements is I want to be able to keep playing hockey. My problem is cartilage wearing away. Unless these supplements can grow it back, they won't help. That's why I'm looking at the stem cell options. Mine also. Yours must be alot worse. I`ve been told I have a high pain tolerance. They used to swell alot when I was heaver and doing alot of crouching and bending doing auto -body on the cement. 35 yrs on that cold cement and up and down . Sports didn`t help either. Good -luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 I had terrible osteoarthritis in my knees at an early age - they just wore out. When the pain became too much and I went to see an orthopedist he put my x-rays up and just said "wow" (not in a good way) - said I had the knees of someone in their 80s and I was only 40. We tried a number of different things - visco-supplementation, physical therapy - in the end my knees were too far gone to get benefit from those therapies so I had my right knee replaced when I was 41 and my left when I was 42. The bone on bone pain I had is gone and while I didn't run the Boston Marathon this morning, I will be spending the next week walking around Disney with the family - something I could never have done before the replacements. For my the choice was suck it up on have the replacements and I couldn't live the life I wanted. The thing to know about knee replacements is that you won't really get better than you were before. You get less pain, but your range of motion isn't going to get better than it was. If you are starting to lose range of motion you need to do something because once that goes it doesn't really come back. Good luck, whatever your future path holds.... What do you mean by range of motion. Bending? Or side to side, which I am not sure how to describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Don't know if you saw this or not. I thought this happened in Pittsburgh but I didn't look long enough to find out where it happened. http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/03/21/new-boston-treatment-relieves-pain-without-surgery-brigham-womens-hospital/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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