OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 ...what constitutes him as a "prospect"?....size?...arm strength?....been there done that with physicalities.........is it his prolific collegiate career?......his pedigree from the OSU QB mega factory?....so far, we're in the EJ mold......why were reports published about his "struggles to run the Scout Team"?....Steve Young (yup that HOF guy) said it best with, "more QB collegians fail at this level versus succeed because of the complexity and speed at the NFL game"....nothing about size or physicality.....Montana, Joe Kapp, Brees, Tarkenton, etc were none of 6'3"+ but all had productive careers....this draft pick was a MAJOR whiff until this kid proves otherwise.....right now, less time was spent building Rome versus what I think it will take to groom him....stay tuned..........
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 ...what constitutes him as a "prospect"?....size?...arm strength?....been there done that with physicalities.........is it his prolific collegiate career?......his pedigree from the OSU QB mega factory?....so far, we're in the EJ mold......why were reports published about his "struggles to run the Scout Team"?....Steve Young (yup that HOF guy) said it best with, "more QB collegians fail at this level versus succeed because of the complexity and speed at the NFL game"....nothing about size or physicality.....Montana, Joe Kapp, Brees, Tarkenton, etc were none of 6'3"+ but all had productive careers....this draft pick was a MAJOR whiff until this kid proves otherwise.....right now, less time was spent building Rome versus what I think it will take to groom him....stay tuned.......... Saying a pick in the 4th round, especially on a qb, after 1 year is a little silly. What do you think the hit rate on 4th rounders is, especially qbs? Newsflash, most qbs are going to fall. It's the hardest position in all of sports and we expect guys to master it after one year. I wonder how many qbs' careers was killed by insane expectations. The NFL needs a minor league.
jdonley1180 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 He doesn't look like an athlete to me - facially. Has to be the best quote of the day
timekills17 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 I don't think it takes two years to evaluate talent a the quarterback position. Sure - like the "it takes three years for a receiver to blossom" discussion, they'll improve. But they improve from either a good starting point to become very good, or a mediocre starting point to become...something more than mediocre. Tom Brady, Ben Roethisberger, Russell Wilson - all example of QBs drafted with varying (from none with Tom to high with Ben) expectations to start quickly. All have improved as QBs tremendously since their starting jobs. Tom and Ben weren't sure fire HoF'ers their rookie years, but their skill, physically and mentally, as witnessed by the coaches showed they had a good base and they learned the game and became better. Russell Wilson was drafted as the thrid string behind expected starter Matt Flynn and previous starter Tavaris Jackson (ugh). Admitedly, Wilson was given equal opportunity that preaseason to showcase his talents, but it was obvious enough that he had the BASELINE needed to be decent and improve. Not "bad but with potential." Drafting a "bad but with potential" QB is dumb in the NFL. There is no time in the NFL these days to progress a bad QB to a possibly good one when snaps are limited and wins are needed. We should draft good QBs. They may end up not good enough, but I think they can be evaluated and moved on from within two seasons. The problem becomes the money committed to them when you decide to move on - which is even more reason not to draft "bad with potential" that eats up cap space and a player spot on the roster.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 He didn't look fat at all when I saw him. Shirt was on though. He's always had that huge face. Also he's enormous in person (tall, hands, etc). Looks like a DE. we are thin at DE You're 100% about Sammy. Fat face. It seems like this could be a club, Fat face all stars. Carmelo Anthony is definitely on the team with Big Ben on the fringe.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) Saying a pick in the 4th round, especially on a qb, after 1 year is a little silly. What do you think the hit rate on 4th rounders is, especially qbs? Newsflash, most qbs are going to fall. It's the hardest position in all of sports and we expect guys to master it after one year. I wonder how many qbs' careers was killed by insane expectations. The NFL needs a minor league. ...CANNOT agree with you more......my point is merely what did OBD see in the pick to constitute it?......Russell Wilson went in the 3rd...he showed promise at NC State and did the same at Wisconsin......thus his collegiate body of work had substance,,,we took Graham Cracker instead....Dalton had a decent career at TCU and went in the 2nd without an OBD wiff....why?.....irrespective of Cardale being the pick in the 4th, what was the attraction?....as I said, he collegiate "body of work"?....physicalities of size and arm strength which have been proven to be useless measurables over time more often than not?....why was he the pick?...... Edited April 14, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 ...CANNOT agree with you more......my point is merely what did OBD see in the pick to constitute it?......Russell Wilson went in the 3rd...he showed promise at NC State and did the same at Wisconsin......thus his collegiate body of work had substance,,,we took Graham Cracker instead....Dalton had a decent career at TCU and went in the 2nd without an OBD wiff....why?.....irrespective of Cardale being the pick in the 4th, what was the attraction?....as I said, he collegiate "body of work"?....physicalities of size and arm strength which have been proven to be useless measurables over time more often than not?....why was he the pick?...... I guess the home is you basically got EJ in the 4th round and you hope with some development and not being rushed to play/ unreal expectations, he can become the guy who was able to help OSU win a national championship. I don't believe Jones will amount to much but i have zero problems with the Bills picking a qb with his skills in the 4th round. I wish they did it more because sometimes you just get lucky. See Dak Prescott.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 I guess the home is you basically got EJ in the 4th round and you hope with some development and not being rushed to play/ unreal expectations, he can become the guy who was able to help OSU win a national championship. I don't believe Jones will amount to much but i have zero problems with the Bills picking a qb with his skills in the 4th round. I wish they did it more because sometimes you just get lucky. See Dak Prescott. ...cede your point...we spent a 4th for about what we got reaching for in the 1st........he is here on the roster to work with but I have my doubts.....stay tuned..............
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 ...cede your point...we spent a 4th for about what we got reaching for in the 1st........he is here on the roster to work with but I have my doubts.....stay tuned.............. Me too but I'd rather miss on a qb with upside than a Defensive back.
3rdand12 Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 changing offenses will be a challenge because he was drafted for Roman's, but having Yates in the film room will help him tremendously. The Yates signing was smart as heck, or obvious. What does it mean it Yates is second man up? Does that keep Cardale from running with the ones for another year? and is that enough to say Jones aint gonna cut it? Or does it suggest they want Yates to be teaching the system this season Me too but I'd rather miss on a qb with upside than a Defensive back. this should be a mantra for us.
Fan in Chicago Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 Aside from perhaps Trubisky [and he's no sure thing] these are all project QB's in the draft. Your premise itself starts this discussion off on the wrong foot. Not many share this point of view. The Bills are finally giving enough importance to the QB position to not be happy with that they have. They are taking a deeper look at a few and will pick one if the value is there. As Cardale has not played enough, we have no idea which trajectory he will follow. More options are better.
stuvian Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) I think Mahomes and Watson are quite polished. Kizer not so much. I could be content with Davis Webb as well. Edited April 14, 2017 by stuvian
kota Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 You need to keep drafting QB's until you find someone who can lead your team for 10 years.
Bill_with_it Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 (edited) Do you really believe that if the organization was high on Cardale's prospects they would be putting so much effort and resources in scouting this year's qb prospects? The organization has seen him up close on the practice field and in the classroom for a year. At this point they know him fairly well as a player and person. Based on how they seem to be aggressively assessing qb prospects it appears that they are not going to solely count on him. That is not to say they are giving up on him but they are not placing their bets on him. That to me seems like a prudent approach to take.They wathced Ej manuel stink up the joint for three years and until Tyrod was aquired. What makes you think they do anything different? Edited April 14, 2017 by Bill_with_it
BuffaloBillsGospel Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 Aside from perhaps Trubisky [and he's no sure thing] these are all project QB's in the draft. We've already got one on the roster, Cardale Jones, who people say has a huge ceiling, and who looked like what you'd expect in his one quarter of play in late '16: a confident athlete with a monster arm but raw. I'm not saying he's going to be a great one, but why do many people [including the media] with no access his work on the practice field or classroom write him off already in favor of another raw QB? There's only so many snaps at practice and so much time the QB coach can give these players...why add another raw rookie? Just wondering what your credentials are to be able to identify a project QB from a franchise QB? Most scouts can't even get it right so again what credentials do you have? Cardale is beyond raw, he shouldn't even be the 3rd QB on this team, he will need another 3 years just to develop imo.
gr8billsfan Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 If TT falls this year, let CJ start one year. All i gotta say. He's a competitor and makes good plays.
CanadianFan Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 He wasn't exactly in great shape when he ripped his shirt off when he was drafted. But hopefully, like you said, he's in better shape. And he may be just one of those guys with a fat face. umm I don't know too many QBs who have underwear model bodies. He looks ripped next to Ben R.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 14, 2017 Posted April 14, 2017 ....thread title states" top prospect"....when is a 4th a top prospect anyway?.............
San-O Posted April 15, 2017 Posted April 15, 2017 Based on his college performance, pre-season performance, and week 17 performance. He has horrendous accuracy. Watch his so-called "great" games at OSU. WRs making tremendous plays on underthrown balls all over the place. He never hits anyone in stride. He underthrows guys open by 5 yards so much that the WR has to make a great catch over the DB who was able to catch up to them. The only reason they had any success was because teams were stacking the box vs Elliot and WRs made tremendous plays. There is a reason he lost his starting job. makes you wonder exactly WHAT Whaley was seeing....
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