mannc Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 Aside from perhaps Trubisky [and he's no sure thing] these are all project QB's in the draft. We've already got one on the roster, Cardale Jones, who people say has a huge ceiling, and who looked like what you'd expect in his one quarter of play in late '16: a confident athlete with a monster arm but raw. I'm not saying he's going to be a great one, but why do many people [including the media] with no access his work on the practice field or classroom write him off already in favor of another raw QB? There's only so many snaps at practice and so much time the QB coach can give these players...why add another raw rookie? You make a great point. We shouldn't bring in another QB (especially with an early round pick) who's not a demonstrably better prospect than Cardale. Cardale has not had an opportunity yet to show whether or not he can be a starting QB in the NFL. In the quick glimpses we've seen, he's flashed both his enormous potential and his inexperience. He and Trubisky, for example, have started about the same number of college games, with Trubisky going 6-5 against Division 1 opponents. I'm not saying Trubisky will or will not be a better NFL player than Jones, but I wouldn't use our first pick on him to find out. I would much rather see us take a QB in the later rounds and throw him into a competition with Jones and Yates for the backup job. At some point, we need to see if CJ can play. He's got incredible God-given tools and he has succeeded on the biggest stage there is. He at least deserves a shot and he won't get one if we take a QB in the first round.
jrober38 Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 Why draft a QB when we've got Jones on the roster? Because Jones is a long shot to ever become an NFL caliber franchise QB.
Augie Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 Why draft a QB when we've got Jones on the roster? Because Jones is a long shot to ever become an NFL caliber franchise QB. As would be any guy you draft to replace him (especially this year). Judge what you have and then decide where to go. Maybe they think they know already, maybe it's too soon.
jrober38 Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 As would be any guy you draft to replace him (especially this year). Judge what you have and then decide where to go. Maybe they think they know already, maybe it's too soon. I don't need to judge Jones to have a really good idea that he's never going to amount to anything. Mid to late round QBs rarely if ever work out. Not drafting another QB because you have Jones doesn't make any sense what so ever.
cd1 Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) Did anybody see his casually thrown 66-yard throw at the OSU spring game?? That's the potential that I love about this guy!! http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/cardale-jones-gives-it-the-old-college-try-with-66-yard-throw-at-osu-spring-game/ You love this guy because he is still a PIPE DREAM! Did you LOVE EJ Manuel? Here is a video of his 80 yard touch down pass to Mike Williams. http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/EJ-Manuel-80-yard-TD-pass-to-Mike-Williams/4a79965c-80bc-4a56-8a61-85bcf68d745d Cardale Jones started only a handful of games in college! His college career vs EJ Manuels: FOR CRYING OUT LOUD - Some of you talk about Cardale as if he is the second coming. He was so raw they were working on him to learn how to play under center, as he only played shotgun in college. !!!!!!!!!! http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/02/27/cardale-jones-qb-tutor-says-his-mechanics-are-under-construction/ DRAFT a Quarter Back!!! Edited April 16, 2017 by cd1
Augie Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) I don't need to judge Jones to have a really good idea that he's never going to amount to anything. Mid to late round QBs rarely if ever work out. Not drafting another QB because you have Jones doesn't make any sense what so ever. Well, yes, actually you do. Simple logic. I won't take the trite Tom Brady approach here, but some guys work out given time to develop. If you thought a 4th round guy could NEVER be good, you should NEVER take a 4th round QB. No one I read said he's the second coming, but you never know until you give it a shot. The people who say draft one high every year are missing out on some obvious stuff. Edited April 16, 2017 by Augie
jrober38 Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) Well, yes, actually you do. Simple logic. I won't take the trite Tom Brady approach here, but some guys work out given time to develop. If you thought a 4th round guy could NEVER be good, you should NEVER take a 4th round QB. No one I read said he's the second coming, but you never know until you give it a shot. The people who say draft one high every year are missing out on some obvious stuff. In all seriousness, the only QBs from rounds 4-7 from the last 10 years who have been any good are Kirk Cousins, Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott. For each one of those guys, there are 15 guys picked in those rounds who never become anything at the NFL level. You don't need to draft a QB early every year, but if you're going to rely on the middle rounds as your pipeline of young QBs, you need to draft them often because the history of those draft picks overwhelmingly shows that they have roughly a 90% chance of NOT developing into a franchise QB. When someone tags a player as a "developmental" QB, that just means they're probably not going to work out. If you're relying on "developmental" players, you need to be developing a few of them to play the clear cut odds. I couldn't care less if the Bills draft another QB. I'm simply pointing out that the argument for not drafting one because we have Jones is a severely flawed argument. Edited April 16, 2017 by jrober38
Thurman#1 Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 Aside from perhaps Trubisky [and he's no sure thing] these are all project QB's in the draft. We've already got one on the roster, Cardale Jones, who people say has a huge ceiling, and who looked like what you'd expect in his one quarter of play in late '16: a confident athlete with a monster arm but raw. I'm not saying he's going to be a great one, but why do many people [including the media] with no access his work on the practice field or classroom write him off already in favor of another raw QB? There's only so many snaps at practice and so much time the QB coach can give these players...why add another raw rookie? Doubles your chances of finding one who becomes a franchise QB. It's not like snaps are the only way to develop as a QB. You're attending meetings, you're doing mental reps, you're learning the offense and how to diagnose defenses and you're practicing your fundamentals and mechanics.
Bangarang Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 As would be any guy you draft to replace him (especially this year). Judge what you have and then decide where to go. Maybe they think they know already, maybe it's too soon.If this team decides to pass on a QB this year because of Cardale then we deserve our playoff drought
Thurman#1 Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 In all seriousness, the only QBs from rounds 4-7 from the last 10 years who have been any good are Kirk Cousins, Tyrod Taylor and Dak Prescott. For each one of those guys, there are 15 guys picked in those rounds who never become anything at the NFL level. You don't need to draft a QB early every year, but if you're going to rely on the middle rounds as your pipeline of young QBs, you need to draft them often because the history of those draft picks overwhelmingly shows that they have roughly a 90% chance of NOT developing into a franchise QB. When someone tags a player as a "developmental" QB, that just means they're probably not going to work out. If you're relying on "developmental" players, you need to be developing a few of them to play the clear cut odds. I couldn't care less if the Bills draft another QB. I'm simply pointing out that the argument for not drafting one because we have Jones is a severely flawed argument. No, being developmental doesn't "just mean they're probably not going to work out." There have been plenty of developmental QBs over the years who have, and some who proved they didn't actually need development after all. It means more than that, specifically and logistically. But the rest of your post is on target. If you have to pick guys from the middle rounds, you need to pick often.
RalphWilson'sNewWar Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 Cardale progressed so slowly as opposed to his recent contemporaries that it almost pulls up a red flag about his status as a future QB in the NFL. So much so that I look at the bills as really only having 1 viable QB on the roster and that guy has a weak contract with limited support from management.
Thurman#1 Posted April 16, 2017 Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) Did you LOVE EJ Manuel? Here is a video of his 80 yard touch down pass to Mike Williams. It's an 80 yard play, but so is a screen pass that the receiver takes for 82 yards after catching it at the 18. That E.J. pass goes from the 14 to the 35. It's a 50 to 51 yard pass. Edited April 17, 2017 by Thurman#1
Augie Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 If this team decides to pass on a QB this year because of Cardale then we deserve our playoff drought Oh, I agree. Not BECAUSE of Cardale, but do they see sufficient talent for the draft spot this year? I don't want another EJ, though people often forget he turned into Kiko>Shady.
Thurman#1 Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Value is the invention of draft geeks. It gives them an imaginary concept to argue about. It's anything but imaginary, it has specific meaning about the likelihood of a guy being available at various points in the draft. But yeah, it loses it's value the instant the guy is on a specific team. After that it's all success or failure and where he falls on that scale. It's not even close, cardale IMO is as good or better then what is coming out this yr. big body and can move, his arm is better then all coming out this yr. dam let him learn the play book. No one wants these qb's unless you don't have nothing in that position now. Arm and movement are fine, but they're not the key. Decision-making speed and correctness is the key if there is a single key, and there's a reason Cardale lasted to the 4th and Trubisky and those other three will probably go in the top two. From what we've seen, Cardale would still probably be picked in the 4th if he were drafted today.
Overseas Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Based on what exactly? I love the consistency of opinions. We want the Bills to take flyers on project players based on their upside. Then we are done with them when they don't make rookie of the year. Based on the same reason TT is a failure. What do Cardale and Taylor have in common? People gave Losman, Edwards. . .hell, people gave Van Pelt and Johnson more time than TT and Cardale. Anyone with half a brain and eyes can guess why? But don't worry, the denials will come as soon as I say this. If only they weren't QBs without a melanin problem. I mean, Orton didn't get as much grief and he couldn't wait to get out of town.
Bill_with_it Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 And if he goes to Canton, what will it say on his bust? "Poor draft value?"Has he shown anything this far indicative of a canton bust in his future?
BobChalmers Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) If Cardale was in this draft he would be considered one of the top QB picks. He needs reps under center and needs to learn to read defenses. Huge potential with Cardale. I like him as our #3 QB behind Tyrod and Yates this year. The Drafting a QB high this year looks like a smoke screen. No way. Edited April 17, 2017 by BobChalmers
Augie Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Has he shown anything this far indicative of a canton bust in his future? To you? Or to anyone who is actually there every day? Big difference. The people with the actual insight will decide, then they will swim or sink based on how it goes.
Overseas Bills Fan Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Has he shown anything this far indicative of a canton bust in his future? One whole half of professional football in a game the team sort of packed it in. Yeah, he's a bust. Unless we have a QB that has a season QBR of 158.3, we go 16-0 and win each game with the QB throwing for 350 yds, 4 TDs, no picks and runs for another TD, Bills fans are fast to cut a QB loose. Especially since Fitz, with the exception of Orton. Bills fans gave Fitz more time than they gave Manuel, Taylor, or Jones. I wonder why. Maybe that melanin condition the three have is the underlying factor.
xRUSHx Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) If this team decides to pass on a QB this year because of Cardale then we deserve our playoff droughtRight on, I agree with this 100% No way. I agree, in fact he could be worth even less then what we used to get him now Cardale progressed so slowly as opposed to his recent contemporaries that it almost pulls up a red flag about his status as a future QB in the NFL. So much so that I look at the bills as really only having 1 viable QB on the roster and that guy has a weak contract with limited support from management. I agree. As for Tyrod as viable I guess I could agree he is viable enough to get us a few wins but I for sure don't expect a playoff run, so in my opinion this team has nothing to offer for a playoff run for now or the future when it comes to QB. To not draft a QB this season is suicide for Whaley and new staff even if they do plan to draft one in 2018. Even teams with proven franchise QBs draft QBs more then the Bills. Edited April 17, 2017 by xRUSHx
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