Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 It doesnt matter if Sammy averages 400 yds oer receptionif he cant stay healthy he hurts the team more than he helps it. Everytime hes out with an injury the offense completely changes. That isn't conducive to a consistent offense.I don't disagree that he needs to stay healthy. What I am (and have been) arguing is that he needs to see the ball like the other top guys do. Hopkins had 169 targets last year. Julio had over 200 in 2015. Even in the Bills offense Watkins needs 10 targets a game. His numbers would be massive if he saw the ball like those guys do. His stats were right on par with Cooper in 2015 despite 34 less targets.
Augie Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) If healthy and TT plays even just average, the sky is the limit. His lack of YAC has been odd, but his ability is clearly outstanding. Edited April 17, 2017 by Augie
fridge Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 I'd like to see some statistics now that the whole five-year option has been around for a while.
YoloinOhio Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 That's the point I was trying to make the other day. Someone said something about him being good at finding depth RBs and a poster said "that will be the first thing that he ever got right." Then a bunch of examples of his successes were laid out but they apparently don't count. I don't know why Bills fans insist on usually absolutes all of the time? Like with anything there is some good and some bad. The Bills are .500 over the last 3 years, or average. If they were 0-48 I would agree. I guess though Bills fans just want to hold someone accountable. This thread is a great example. There are a section of Bills fans that want to move on from Sammy Watkins because he has only started 77% of the Bills games since coming here. but don't you dare take Hogan or Gillislee!
Wayne Cubed Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 I don't disagree that he needs to stay healthy. What I am (and have been) arguing is that he needs to see the ball like the other top guys do. Hopkins had 169 targets last year. Julio had over 200 in 2015. Even in the Bills offense Watkins needs 10 targets a game. His numbers would be massive if he saw the ball like those guys do. His stats were right on par with Cooper in 2015 despite 34 less targets. It's really not more difficult than this to understand. Just look at the games Watkins is targeted. He dominates. In 2015, in the games that he got more than 8 targets, he averaged 119 yards and 1.16 TDs.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 .500 is the new 0-48. .500 is worse than 0-48. .500 is the WORST thing an NFL team can be
ALF Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Will be interesting to see if the Browns strategy works sooner then the Bills get to the playoffs now .
Buffalo Boy Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 In Sammy's last season healthy he had the ball thrown to him 96 times in 13 games. He had 60 catches, 1,047 yards and 9 TDs (17.5 ypr). In that same year Amari Cooper had the ball thrown to him 130 times in 16 games. He had 72 catches, 1,070 yards and 6 TDs (14.9 ypr). He plays with Carr. He's a nice player but not in Watkins league. If Watkins saw the ball as often as Cooper there would be a big gap between them. There isn't one thing that Cooper does better than Watkins (except stay healthy). Hopkins was thrown the ball 169 times last year alone. Sammy has 233 targets in his career. You will always put up bigger gross numbers with more chances. If a guy has 30 carries he should have more yards than a guy with 15. " Except stay healthy" is a pretty important exception though I fully agree he's better WHEN healthy. Remember when Kelly called out Greg Bell after he was traded to the Rams? The question is; does this staff have faith in his ability to fully recover? If not, a trade would be good and the best time to rebuild is at the beginning of a new coaches tenure. I don't believe it would happen till next year though https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/e74f92ae-6267-3137-b09d-cf7ff377767d/ss_sammy-watkins-to-carolina..%3F.html Some interest out there...saw this tonight on Yahoo. A Majority of Ginn's responsibility was to just stretch the outside of the field. If Watkins was healthy in the Panther's O he could put up insane numbers.
BigBuff423 Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 I loved the Sammy Watkins pick, but hated the currency it took to get him - which is not his fault, so picking up his option seems like a foregone conclusion. The option allows the team to keep him at a reduced rate for an additional year and time to negotiate a long-term deal should they feel one is necessary, which I'm sure they do. However, the key is the value. He may want to be paid like a star, but has not yet shown he has produced like an elite WR - again, not ALL his fault due to the first year being what it was, and yes the injury issue is one to consider. The 5th year allows for health to be considered a factor and not simply throwing away what could be a really important piece to the playoff puzzle in the years to come.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/e74f92ae-6267-3137-b09d-cf7ff377767d/ss_sammy-watkins-to-carolina..%3F.html Some interest out there...saw this tonight on Yahoo. Lol, media spitball.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) Lol, media spitball.Should Carolina trade a late round pick and/or a fringe roster player for Watkins? Hmmm.... The Bills should counter with a 5th and Colt Anderson for Cam. Edited April 17, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
Bill from NYC Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 There isn't one thing that Cooper does better than Watkins (except stay healthy). Yeah, there is. Cooper is a much bigger target and his hands are at least as good as Sammy's. Don't you think that a big, open receiver such as Amari makes life easier for Carr? Watkins would appear to have a bit more talent than Cooper, but imo it is far less of a slam dunk than the picture you paint. Now, who would I rather have on the Bills? Cooper, but I am probably not being 100% impartial. Still, the kid is special. I have seen him pull in passes for completions that looked WAY out of bounds. Amari is a good kid and a clutch player who can and will win a team some football games.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Yeah, there is. Cooper is a much bigger target and his hands are at least as good as Sammy's. Don't you think that a big, open receiver such as Amari makes life easier for Carr? Watkins would appear to have a bit more talent than Cooper, but imo it is far less of a slam dunk than the picture you paint. Now, who would I rather have on the Bills? Cooper, but I am probably not being 100% impartial. Still, the kid is special. I have seen him pull in passes for completions that looked WAY out of bounds. Amari is a good kid and a clutch player who can and will win a team some football games. I like Cooper, but Sammy is open every play. He gets separation that Amari doesn't and is a lot more explosive. Watkins hands are phenomenal while Cooper's are questionable https://www.profootballfocus.com/worst-hands-in-nfl-this-season/. Sammy has produced at a superior level when he's been on the field. Sammy needs to stay healthy and the Bills need to throw him the ball like the other top guys. If Cooper didn't go to Alabama you wouldn't think that he is better (but I do the same thing with Buckeyes). You can sleep easy knowing though that the best receiver in the world is a former member of the Tide..
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 In Sammy's last season healthy he had the ball thrown to him 96 times in 13 games. He had 60 catches, 1,047 yards and 9 TDs (17.5 ypr). In that same year Amari Cooper had the ball thrown to him 130 times in 16 games. He had 72 catches, 1,070 yards and 6 TDs (14.9 ypr). He plays with Carr. He's a nice player but not in Watkins league. If Watkins saw the ball as often as Cooper there would be a big gap between them. There isn't one thing that Cooper does better than Watkins (except stay healthy). Hopkins was thrown the ball 169 times last year alone. Sammy has 233 targets in his career. You will always put up bigger gross numbers with more chances. If a guy has 30 carries he should have more yards than a guy with 15. Got it, the only thing Cooper does better is stay on the field and produce... Sammy is bettter at everything else aside from staying on the field and production.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Got it, the only thing Cooper does better is stay on the field and produce... Sammy is bettter at everything else aside from staying on the field and production.No, if you are interpreting 23 more yards and 3 less TDs on 34 more targets as "better production" I don't know what to tell you.
thebandit27 Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) Yeah, there is. Cooper is a much bigger target and his hands are at least as good as Sammy's. Don't you think that a big, open receiver such as Amari makes life easier for Carr? Watkins would appear to have a bit more talent than Cooper, but imo it is far less of a slam dunk than the picture you paint. Now, who would I rather have on the Bills? Cooper, but I am probably not being 100% impartial. Still, the kid is special. I have seen him pull in passes for completions that looked WAY out of bounds. Amari is a good kid and a clutch player who can and will win a team some football games. Bill, most of this is simply false. Cooper is 6'1", 211 lbs http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/amari-cooper?id=2552487 Sammy is 6'1", 211 lbs. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/sammy-watkins?id=2543457 Cooper's drop rate was 7.1% as a rookie and 2.3% last year. Sammy's drop rate was 3.1% as a rookie, 3.1% in year 2, and 3.9% last year On a per-target basis, Sammy smokes Cooper despite playing with a QB that is clearly not the passer that Carr is at the current time. And that brings me back to my point: Cooper is probably a top-10 WR in the NFL by most accounts. Sammy has 2 seasons of performing like a No. 1 WR despite a staggering lack of opportunity in comparison to his peers. The only issue with him is availability. Now, if someone places a higher level of emphasis on that than someone else, sure, that's an argument worth having. Whether or not he's as productive as other guys when given the targets is not up for debate. Edited April 17, 2017 by thebandit27
TheElectricCompany Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 Cooper has looked good so far, from some of the local Raaaaaiiiddeeerrr fans talk, it sounds like he's a bit streaky as a catcher. Sammy is open every play. The longer we go without football, the crazier these Sammy statements become. I love it.
thebandit27 Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 The longer we go without football, the crazier these Sammy statements become. I love it. Honestly, when you attend the games and look at the All-22, if what Kirby said is an exaggeration, then it's only a slight one.
TheElectricCompany Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) Honestly, when you attend the games and look at the All-22, if what Kirby said is an exaggeration, then it's only a slight one. If all it took to analyze players was going to the games and watching "All 22" from WGR, we'd all have front office jobs. This doesn't even have anything to do with Sammy, it's just bull **** statements like "he's open every play" that make me chuckle. I wouldn't say that any player is always open, but I think there are a select few players that are "open when they're covered", and usually it's because they dwarf anyone covering them or are just ridiculous in a jump ball situation (Gronk, AJ Green, Calvin Johnson pre retirement) Edited April 17, 2017 by TheElectricCompany
26CornerBlitz Posted April 17, 2017 Author Posted April 17, 2017 If all it took to analyze players was going to the games and watching "All 22" from WGR, we'd all have front office jobs. This doesn't even have anything to do with Sammy, it's just bull **** statements like "he's open every play" that make me chuckle. I wouldn't say that any player is ever open any play, but I think there are a select few players that are "open when they're covered", and usually it's because they dwarf anyone covering them or are just ridiculous in a jump ball situation (Gronk, AJ Green, Calvin Johnson pre retirement) The All-22 is actual film of the game from the coaches box perspective that has been available to fans for the last few seasons.
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