News' Gaughan on Whether Modrak Was to Blame For Drafts

[jahbonas]

Posted this in the other thread but it is much more appropriate here

 

The Bills have always been very collaborative but Modrak ran the show. No players were picked against his will. He assembled the board, ran the scouting meetings and was the trigger man in that room. I was in the war room for one of the 1st round picks. He took input from everyone and if someone felt passionately when they were deciding between a couple of guys that would have been taken seriously. No one was overruling him though.

Kirby thanks much

I always thought there is a great book waiting to be written focused on the many behind the scenes "what ifs" of various teams draft rooms over the years.

I remember Bill Polian stating once he had an opportunity to land WR Tim Brown on draft day 1988 but didnt pull the trigger and he regretted - imagine Kelly throwing to Reed, Lofton and Tim Brown?

[C.Biscuit97]

They really needed to do this a day after he died?

[NoSaint]

the person who had final say is most to blame......that was not modrak

It's an issue all around. If you sat quietly in a sinking ship long enough you own the water too.

 

Even if you didn't make the decisions if you were unable to influence the decisions of several people that's a major shortcoming in your job as that guy that links info to choices. In my "real world" job I'll let it slide on individual choices or with a single boss short term but if it's a long term problem across regimes that becomes a much different discussion

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

They really needed to do this a day after he died?

...EXACTLY how effed up this once proud nation is today....look at the doc who got his ass kicked on the United flight....the scurrilous media went back and dug up decade old charges against him for writing questionable narcotics prescriptions...so I guess the beating is justfied today because of what he did 10+ years ago......and here we are raking Modrak over the coals for his decades of drafts....good Lord we are pathetic............

[stuvian]

it was well known that Modrak scouted exclusively from his computer

[NoSaint]

...EXACTLY how effed up this once proud nation is today....look at the doc who got his ass kicked on the United flight....the scurrilous media went back and dug up decade old charges against him for writing questionable narcotics prescriptions...so I guess the beating is justfied today because of what he did 10+ years ago......and here we are raking Modrak over the coals for his decades of drafts....good Lord we are pathetic............

what I read of the article was hardly raking him over the coals and the thread has been pretty tame for the most part

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Hard to fault Modrak during the Donahoe years, because Donahoe was the one calling the shots. However, it is interesting to note that the team's best draft during those years was the one in 2001 (Nate, Travis Henry, Aaron Schobel...) which was the year BEFORE Modrak came on board. Perhaps that was coincidental.

 

Modrak also probably did not play a huge role once Buddy took over as GM in 2010.

 

His biggest impact probably came in the 2006-2009 seasons when Marv and Russ, neither of whom were really scouts. were running the show. If we are to believe various reports that circulated over the years:

 

2006: Modrak pounded the table for Cutler instead of Whitner

 

2007: Modrak accurately predicted all of the picks in the top 10 and convinced Marv not to take Poz in the first round, as he believed that Poz would still be available in the 2nd. (The Bills wound up trading up a few spots in the 2nd to secure Poz.) Whereas, Lynch would never make it out of the 1st round.

 

2008: McKelvin was definitely Modrak's guy in the first round -- but he wanted the Bills to move up in the 2nd to get Jordy Nelson.

 

2009: Someone at OBD removed Orakpo from consideration as they had a DND (Do Not Draft) policy associated with University of Texas players. Jauron wanted Maybin; Modrak clamored for Brian Cushing. We all know who won that argument.

thanks this was interesting info.

[jahbonas]

Hard to fault Modrak during the Donahoe years, because Donahoe was the one calling the shots. However, it is interesting to note that the team's best draft during those years was the one in 2001 (Nate, Travis Henry, Aaron Schobel...) which was the year BEFORE Modrak came on board. Perhaps that was coincidental.

 

Modrak also probably did not play a huge role once Buddy took over as GM in 2010.

 

His biggest impact probably came in the 2006-2009 seasons when Marv and Russ, neither of whom were really scouts. were running the show. If we are to believe various reports that circulated over the years:

 

2006: Modrak pounded the table for Cutler instead of Whitner

 

2007: Modrak accurately predicted all of the picks in the top 10 and convinced Marv not to take Poz in the first round, as he believed that Poz would still be available in the 2nd. (The Bills wound up trading up a few spots in the 2nd to secure Poz.) Whereas, Lynch would never make it out of the 1st round.

 

2008: McKelvin was definitely Modrak's guy in the first round -- but he wanted the Bills to move up in the 2nd to get Jordy Nelson.

 

2009: Someone at OBD removed Orakpo from consideration as they had a DND (Do Not Draft) policy associated with University of Texas players. Jauron wanted Maybin; Modrak clamored for Brian Cushing. We all know who won that argument.

 

Interesting post thanks

Can you expand on the policy of not drafting Texas players? There has been a theory that players there feel they reached their ultimate by playing at Texas and the NFL was only a paycheck after that - no heart/drive when they came to NFL. Or was it all due to Mike Williams draft?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

http://buffalonews.com/2017/04/12/analysis-honorable-tom-modrak-gray-man-bills-drought/

 

 

Gaughan has always had a lot of sources in the Bills locker room and front office, especially back in those years when he was one of the primary beat reporters. Ralph Wilson, for one, would always talk to Gaughan, but he had a ton of guys in his Rolodex back when there were Rolodexes.

Some excerpts:

 

-"Was it Modrak who decided Haloti Ngata couldn't play in the Buffalo defense, and the Bills should take Donte Whitner instead? Absolutely not. That was Dick Jauron and aide Bill Kollar."

-"Modrak loved Jordy Nelson in 2008. Nelson went 36th to Green Bay. The Bills picked 41st. Jauron and offensive chief Turk Schonert were desperate for a tall receiver. Schonert probably correctly sensed his seat already could get hot. The pick was James Hardy. Reach. Bust. Not Modrak's fault.

-"Then there was Aaron Maybin. Again, Jauron & Co. were desperate for an edge rusher in the Tampa defense. Desperate. Modrak saw Maybin's potential to rush from both sides but knew it was a reach. Did he jump up and down hard enough to object? It's what the coaching staff was begging for."

 

If this is correct, it lends IMO more credence to a viewpoint that I have kind of dismissed: that the Bills FO is messed up and that hasn't been fixed yet.

 

What this is saying is that two coaches picked over the chief scout's objection to the detriment of the talent on the team. Those were the years when Marv Levy then Russ Brandon were the GMs, presumably they sided with the coaches.

 

Now people are saying that Whaley is either a lame duck or has little real power and McDermott (or maybe McDermott and the owners, who are cruising around the country working out and wining/dining QBs) will be making the picks.

 

Per this article, that might well be a Very Bad Thing to if the coaches or coaches/owner are at a higher level of decision making authority in the draft than the talent evaluation organization led by the GM. Either trust Whaley and his talent evaluation organization OR fire Whaley and bring in someone they do trust.

 

I have not been part of the "burn it down" "fire 'em all" crowd but this article I think, shows the pitfalls of not having a strong GM who is a good talent evaluator making the picks rather than coaches who are "desperate" for guys to fill certain roles on the team.

 

They really needed to do this a day after he died?

 

I thought that too. But it is exculpatory of Modrak, that might be the logic.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Hapless Bills Fan

[jeffismagic]

 

If this is correct, it lends IMO more credence to a viewpoint that I have kind of dismissed: that the Bills FO is messed up and that hasn't been fixed yet.

 

What this is saying is that two coaches picked over the chief scout's objection to the detriment of the talent on the team. Those were the years when Marv Levy then Russ Brandon were the GMs, presumably they sided with the coaches.

 

Now people are saying that Whaley is either a lame duck or has little real power and McDermott (or maybe McDermott and the owners, who are cruising around the country working out and wining/dining QBs) will be making the picks.

 

Per this article, that might well be a Very Bad Thing to have the coaches or coaches/owner at a higher level of decision making than the talent evaluation organization led by the GM (or to have a non-football de-facto GM) and show that the Bills don't yet have the FO and power structure straight. Either in Whaley, they have a talent evaluator they can trust OR, they should fire Whaley and bring in someone they do trust.

 

I have not been part of the "burn it down" "fire 'em all" crowd but this article I think, shows the pitfalls of not having a strong GM who is a good talent evaluator making the picks.

 

 

I thought that too. But it is exculpatory of Modrak, that might be the logic.

 

And nothing has changed. Bills still doing things the same chaotic way. Pegula himself when asked who has final say couldn't answer.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Even the random Bills fans with no knowledge of scouting or an eye to evaluate talent new Orakpo shouldve been the pick.

 

or Matthews

[CircleTheWagons99]

THere was no defending Maybin over anybody

Rex Maybe, he did get some sacks out of him in NY.

[Bill_with_it]

 

 

For all we know, Rex had the final word in the last two drafts and Marone before that. So I guess we may be picking on the wrong guy.

Marrone stormed out of the draft room when Watkins was picked. Might want to remember history how it was instead of not attaching blame to whaley.

[jahbonas]

Marrone stormed out of the draft room when Watkins was picked. Might want to remember history how it was instead of not attaching blame to whaley.

Because Marrone stormed out it had to be Whaleys solo pick? Maybe you missed the video of Marketer Russ Brandon (who had the power to select Marrone from Syracuse) pumping his fist in the air at the pick?

[Kirby Jackson]

FWIW, leading up to the draft I was told if the Bills had a shot at Watkins "they would run to the podium to turn in the card." The whole organization was all in on Sammy. He was the highest rated player on their board (and multiple other teams) in a 2 year span (2013-2014).

[Jamie Muellers Ghost]

Very bad taste. I Know no one buys the paper anymore anyways but the last good thing there was Larry Felser.

 

They really needed to do this a day after he died?

Edited April 16, 2017 by Jamie Muellers Ghost

[JohnC]

FWIW, leading up to the draft I was told if the Bills had a shot at Watkins "they would run to the podium to turn in the card." The whole organization was all in on Sammy. He was the highest rated player on their board (and multiple other teams) in a 2 year span (2013-2014).

His talent level was never the issue. The issue was whether moving up a few spots to get him was worth the price of another first round pick and another useful pick. To make the selection less justifiable was that this draft class included a number of highly rated receivers who were maybe not as good but were arguably nearly as good. To make the draft maneuver and selection even more questionable the Bills at the time, and still do not, have the caliber of that could maximize the talents of Watkins or any receivers on the team.

 

By a number of reports Marrone was upset with the selection not because of the pick but because of what was given up to get that pick. In hindsight, Marrone was clearly right in his judgment and Whaley not only was wrong but his decision rose to the level of blundering. A similar scenario played out with the high cost free agency acquisition of Clay, a talented receiving TE. The mistake in the deal was not in acquiring Clay but in not having the caliber of qb capable of maximizing the talents of the acquired player.

 

Compare the way the Falcons handled their high cost trade to acquire Julio Jones, arguably the best receiver in the game. The Falcons had in place a top tier qb who was capable of maximizing the talents of their expensive receiver. The Bills in their typical incompetent manner acted in a backward fashion. They went for the for the candy before they had the meat and potatoes.

 

The Watkins fiasco is a Whaley fiasco. Judging Watkins's abundant talent was the easy part. Few talent scouts would question his elite rating. That was never the issue. The issue was putting together a deal that made sense under the circumstances. This was basically a reckless and extravagant deal that in the long run has hurt this franchise. What makes the deal even more foolish is that the GM has been obtusely passive in not remedying the situation by finding a qb who can maximize the talents he has on the team.

[Kirby Jackson]

His talent level was never the issue. The issue was whether moving up a few spots to get him was worth the price of another first round pick and another useful pick. To make the selection less justifiable was that this draft class included a number of highly rated receivers who were maybe not as good but were arguably nearly as good. To make the draft maneuver and selection even more questionable the Bills at the time, and still do not, have the caliber of that could maximize the talents of Watkins or any receivers on the team.

 

By a number of reports Marrone was upset with the selection not because of the pick but because of what was given up to get that pick. In hindsight, Marrone was clearly right in his judgment and Whaley not only was wrong but his decision rose to the level of blundering. A similar scenario played out with the high cost free agency acquisition of Clay, a talented receiving TE. The mistake in the deal was not in acquiring Clay but in not having the caliber of qb capable of maximizing the talents of the acquired player.

 

Compare the way the Falcons handled their high cost trade to acquire Julio Jones, arguably the best receiver in the game. The Falcons had in place a top tier qb who was capable of maximizing the talents of their expensive receiver. The Bills in their typical incompetent manner acted in a backward fashion. They went for the for the candy before they had the meat and potatoes.

 

The Watkins fiasco is a Whaley fiasco. Judging Watkins's abundant talent was the easy part. Few talent scouts would question his elite rating. That was never the issue. The issue was putting together a deal that made sense under the circumstances. This was basically a reckless and extravagant deal that in the long run has hurt this franchise. What makes the deal even more foolish is that the GM has been obtusely passive in not remedying the situation by finding a qb who can maximize the talents he has on the team.

I guess where we disagree is that it was a fiasco. When healthy he is an elite talent. You don't always get a chance at an elite talent. He was a guy that had an incredibly high floor and ceiling. He didn't have injury issues coming out. He led the league on a per target basis on 2014 and 2015. It's not that complicated to me, throw him the ball 10 times a game and you will have a superstar. Julio Jones has gotten 11 targets a game over the last 3 years and Antonio Brown 11.2, Sammy Watkins 6.5. Even on a run first team there is no reason to not throw him 10 balls, especially with your other pass catching options. If Sammy gets 10 targets a game (based on his per target numbers for his career) he would have 105 catches, 1,689 yards and 12 TDs. Who would complain about that?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

His talent level was never the issue. The issue was whether moving up a few spots to get him was worth the price of another first round pick and another useful pick. To make the selection less justifiable was that this draft class included a number of highly rated receivers who were maybe not as good but were arguably nearly as good. To make the draft maneuver and selection even more questionable the Bills at the time, and still do not, have the caliber of that could maximize the talents of Watkins or any receivers on the team.

 

By a number of reports Marrone was upset with the selection not because of the pick but because of what was given up to get that pick. In hindsight, Marrone was clearly right in his judgment and Whaley not only was wrong but his decision rose to the level of blundering. A similar scenario played out with the high cost free agency acquisition of Clay, a talented receiving TE. The mistake in the deal was not in acquiring Clay but in not having the caliber of qb capable of maximizing the talents of the acquired player.

 

Compare the way the Falcons handled their high cost trade to acquire Julio Jones, arguably the best receiver in the game. The Falcons had in place a top tier qb who was capable of maximizing the talents of their expensive receiver. The Bills in their typical incompetent manner acted in a backward fashion. They went for the for the candy before they had the meat and potatoes.

 

The Watkins fiasco is a Whaley fiasco. Judging Watkins's abundant talent was the easy part. Few talent scouts would question his elite rating. That was never the issue. The issue was putting together a deal that made sense under the circumstances. This was basically a reckless and extravagant deal that in the long run has hurt this franchise. What makes the deal even more foolish is that the GM has been obtusely passive in not remedying the situation by finding a qb who can maximize the talents he has on the team.

And now folks want to use another first round pick on a WR without having a QB in place who passes the ball well and can get the most of the talent around him. Another weapon to come in and underachieve just like Watkins and Clay will not turn this franchise around.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

And now folks want to use another first round pick on a WR without having a QB in place who passes the ball well and can get the most of the talent around him. Another weapon to come in and underachieve just like Watkins and Clay will not turn this franchise around.

Not quite. I present as Counterpoint Donte Culpepper. He wasn't a terribly accurate passer, but Randy Moss and chris carter were so great it didn't matter and 11-5 happened in 2000.

 

Elite QBs throw WRs open. Elite WRs are open already.. there is a level of trade offs that you can balance to produce something.

 

If they do fail to get better at QB, then they will need to either keep Sammy and upgrade at 2, or upgrade to a more reliable 1 and still upgrade 2.

 

Clay is irrelevant. They need a h back type dude that gets open, catches balls and can steamroll a linebacker or two for shady. I thought clay was this sort, but I think he may not be after all.