baskingridgebillsfan Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Dick Jouron, got a lot out of nothing, but it seems he was responsible for the nothing.
baskingridgebillsfan Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 @ChrisBrownBills - Breaking: Doug Whaley out, #TwoBillsDrive member @jeffismagic in at the GM position. Stay tuned for further updates. #Structure Change oh no that means Watson is off the board because he can't throw
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 oh no that means Watson is off the board because he can't throw Correct.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 I thought orakpo would've been picked already so I did pick maybin as our most likely pick. I've been turned off of tweeters ever since. Should've remembered Erik flowers. Correct. Who do u pick outside a qb?
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 I thought orakpo would've been picked already so I did pick maybin as our most likely pick. I've been turned off of tweeters ever since. Should've remembered Erik flowers. Who do u pick outside a qb? If Trubisky or Mahomes are gone? I would be hoping for Solomon Thomas or Jamal Adams as elite prospects. Would look at EDGE guys like Barnett and Taco. Lean to trade back to 20 as I see it very likely the prospects at 20 will be in same tier as 10.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted this in the other thread but it is much more appropriate here The Bills have always been very collaborative but Modrak ran the show. No players were picked against his will. He assembled the board, ran the scouting meetings and was the trigger man in that room. I was in the war room for one of the 1st round picks. He took input from everyone and if someone felt passionately when they were deciding between a couple of guys that would have been taken seriously. No one was overruling him though.
jeffismagic Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted this in the other thread but it is much more appropriate here The Bills have always been very collaborative but Modrak ran the show. No players were picked against his will. He assembled the board, ran the scouting meetings and was the trigger man in that room. I was in the war room for one of the 1st round picks. He took input from everyone and if someone felt passionately when they were deciding between a couple of guys that would have been taken seriously. No one was overruling him though. Kirby, I respect your thoughts and thank you for sharing them on this subject. But can't both of us be right? Modrak was running the show but ultimately his collaborative approach allowed others more say than they should have had? It's similar to the mystery of Whaley. When did he draft and when did he get bulled over by Rex?
Kirby Jackson Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Kirby, I respect your thoughts and thank you for sharing them on this subject. But can't both of us be right? Modrak was running the show but ultimately his collaborative approach allowed others more say than they should have had? It's similar to the mystery of Whaley. When did he draft and when did he get bulled over by Rex? I think that's 100% true. We are actually in agreement on this. The scouting staff (specifically Tom Roth) and the coaching staff had a lot of say. Marv and Russ really didn't. They tried to come to a consensus. It isn't that different now. The Bills (and most organizations) work together. It is always a little off base when people point the finger at Whaley or Buddy or whomever. The reality is they end up as one in charge but they aren't alone in making these decisions (not even close). Unless you are overhauling your personnel and scouting departments your philosophy and types of players that you like aren't going to change. There are A LOT of the same people in the rock that were there 10 years ago. Edited April 13, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
BillsFan17 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 If a GM is at that much of the will of his coaches than he has no business being the GM. Obviously you don't pick players that don't fit your scheme. However, to overdraft players for that system always comes back to haunt you. Nix did this with Troup, but I don't think his coaching staff forced his hand.
GG Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted this in the other thread but it is much more appropriate here The Bills have always been very collaborative but Modrak ran the show. No players were picked against his will. He assembled the board, ran the scouting meetings and was the trigger man in that room. I was in the war room for one of the 1st round picks. He took input from everyone and if someone felt passionately when they were deciding between a couple of guys that would have been taken seriously. No one was overruling him though. This is indeed interesting, and I recall at this time Dwight Adams was livid that his duties were curtailed and he had almost no input into collegiate scouting. And then he was gone.
mjt328 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Reading this makes me wonder. Maybe our problem in the draft room is related to "too many voices" when it comes time to make picks. It's important for teams to have a collaborative effort between scouts, coaches and the GM. But at some point, there needs to be a LEADER at the top of the pyramid. Somebody with a singular vision for how to construct the roster. That person needs to make the final call every time. He needs to be the one held responsible. If there is truth to this article, Marv Levy, Tom Modrak and Dick Jauron all had pieces of those Bills drafts. And it sounds like they couldn't agree on which players were the best fits, whether they were reaches, etc. It's no wonder our rosters during that time were such a mess. Edited April 13, 2017 by mjt328
Kirby Jackson Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Reading this makes me wonder. Maybe our problem in the draft room is related to "too many voices" when it comes time to make picks. It's important for teams to have a collaborative effort between scouts, coaches and the GM. But at some point, there needs to be a LEADER at the top of the pyramid. Somebody with a singular vision for how to construct the roster. That person needs to make the final call every time. He needs to be the one held responsible. If there is truth to this article, Marv Levy, Tom Modrak and Dick Jauron all had pieces of those Bills drafts. And it sounds like they couldn't agree on which players were the best fits, whether they were reaches, etc. It's no wonder our rosters during that time were such a mess. Marv really had nothing to do with anything. He didn't scout or even contribute to the scouting discussions. He was there to try to make the Bills likeable, not to make roster decisions. It's tough to have that one voice because no one person can ever have the amount of information and insight on all of these players. He has to depend on the scouts that have met the high school coaches, position coaches, teammates, etc... The person in charge has to use those information to to decide what is best for the team. The opinions of those that know the player or know the scheme needs best though impact the decision. It is tricky for sure but the Bills aren't on an island when it comes to this. The teams that do it best (Baltimore, Pittsburgh) know exactly who they are and want to be. They draft and sign players that fit within that framework. Edited April 13, 2017 by Kirby Jackson
BmarvB Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 There is no defending Maybin over Orakpo. Just a horrible decision. THere was no defending Maybin over anybody
2003Contenders Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Hard to fault Modrak during the Donahoe years, because Donahoe was the one calling the shots. However, it is interesting to note that the team's best draft during those years was the one in 2001 (Nate, Travis Henry, Aaron Schobel...) which was the year BEFORE Modrak came on board. Perhaps that was coincidental. Modrak also probably did not play a huge role once Buddy took over as GM in 2010. His biggest impact probably came in the 2006-2009 seasons when Marv and Russ, neither of whom were really scouts. were running the show. If we are to believe various reports that circulated over the years: 2006: Modrak pounded the table for Cutler instead of Whitner 2007: Modrak accurately predicted all of the picks in the top 10 and convinced Marv not to take Poz in the first round, as he believed that Poz would still be available in the 2nd. (The Bills wound up trading up a few spots in the 2nd to secure Poz.) Whereas, Lynch would never make it out of the 1st round. 2008: McKelvin was definitely Modrak's guy in the first round -- but he wanted the Bills to move up in the 2nd to get Jordy Nelson. 2009: Someone at OBD removed Orakpo from consideration as they had a DND (Do Not Draft) policy associated with University of Texas players. Jauron wanted Maybin; Modrak clamored for Brian Cushing. We all know who won that argument.
mjt328 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Marv really had nothing to do with anything. He didn't scout or even contribute to the scouting discussions. He was there to try to make the Bills likeable, not to make roster decisions. It's tough to have that one voice because no one person can ever have the amount of information and insight on all of these players. He has to depend on the scouts that have met the high school coaches, position coaches, teammates, etc... The person in charge has to use those information to to decide what is best for the team. The opinions of those that know the player or know the scheme needs best though impact the decision. It is tricky for sure but the Bills aren't on an island when it comes to this. The teams that do it best (Baltimore, Pittsburgh) know exactly who they are and want to be. They draft and sign players that fit within that framework. True. It is tough for a single person to have all the information/insight on every player. But when we are constantly hearing that the front office and coaching staff are at odds on players, it can't be a good thing for the organization.
Kirby Jackson Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 True. It is tough for a single person to have all the information/insight on every player. But when we are constantly hearing that the front office and coaching staff are at odds on players, it can't be a good thing for the organization. I don't disagree. I think that it comes from having a clear vision and identity. That is something that the Bills have turned over every couple of years. We go from a "multiple defense" to a wide nine, to the Ryan defense. You are trying to fit guys to these schemes and then a new one comes in. Ragland is maybe the perfect example. He was a really good fit in the middle of Rex's defense but feels like the opposite of what McDermott needs.
mjt328 Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 I don't disagree. I think that it comes from having a clear vision and identity. That is something that the Bills have turned over every couple of years. We go from a "multiple defense" to a wide nine, to the Ryan defense. You are trying to fit guys to these schemes and then a new one comes in. Ragland is maybe the perfect example. He was a really good fit in the middle of Rex's defense but feels like the opposite of what McDermott needs. Yep. Even if you go back to the start of "the streak" - you will see coaches and front office divided between Rob Johnson and Doug Flutie. If reports are to be believed, Doug Whaley has clashed with pretty much every coach over the starting QB. Whether it be benching EJ Manuel, signing Kyle Orton, releasing Matt Cassel, retaining Tyrod Taylor. It's hard to believe the team has a unified vision, when those in charge can't even agree on the starting QB.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 (edited) Show a little respect Gaughan! the man just passed away. Or was that the only reason he came to mind? Out of sight out of mind. Couldn't you wait a a few weeks before you unloaded any suspected blame on him. Edited April 13, 2017 by ShadyBillsFan
jahbonas Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Continuity year after year is the biggest key - run the same styles of offense and defense and your drafts will naturally improve because its all about players for schemes. Draft a Darius 3rd overall only to see Rex change the defense and ask him to be an overpaid nose guard freeing up lesser free agent linebackers to make plays? Move up in Rd2 to obtain a thumping MLB Ragland and now we prefer speed? etc etc etc The biggest thing I love about the new staff is they seem to be of a quality that would be in place for a long time - watch our drafts suddenly improve over the next 5 years
Straight Hucklebuck Posted April 13, 2017 Posted April 13, 2017 Then again, I remember Modrak talking about how the team thought Troup was the best DT of the bunch at #41, and another where he talked about how Chris Ellis was going to make the jump from Year 1 to Year 2. The Bills are horrible at drafting.
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