News' Gaughan on Whether Modrak Was to Blame For Drafts

[jeffismagic]

 

I desperately hope that with McDermott they finally have what they need, a young solid HC that will be successful and can be here quite a while. Whether Whaley is the right GM or not time will tell, but to me so long as the GM and HC are in synch on philosophy and work in tandem it's OK if the HC has more power if you will.

 

We all hope so. But the problem is that the Pegulas have an awful track record in hires. 0 for 7 so far (I'm counting Bylsma as a failure who will be fired in the next year). They didn't listen to Whaley when they hired Rex and now hired McDermott on their own as well.

[oldmanfan]

 

We all hope so. But the problem is that the Pegulas have an awful track record in hires. 0 for 7 so far (I'm counting Bylsma as a failure who will be fired in the next year). They didn't listen to Whaley when they hired Rex and now hired McDermott on their own as well.

I think Whaley is on board with McDermott.

[jeffismagic]

I think Whaley is on board with McDermott.

 

Does he have any other option? McDermott was not Whaley's choice.

[oldmanfan]

 

Does he have any other option? McDermott was not Whaley's choice.

 

 

Does he have any other option? McDermott was not Whaley's choice.

Well, actually I think he was. I think you're just in the mode of assuming everything about One Bills Drive is bad.

[Bill from NYC]

You have brought up the issue on a number of occasions so I'm not saying anything that hasn't been discussed before. This organization since the Polian era has had no guiding principle in putting together a roster. There is no blueprint. It's philosophy is basically a patchwork approach to drafting and to free agency. There is no core to build on.

 

I am not as critical as you are with the repeated drafting of backs and DBs. Where I am as critical as you are on that positional fixation is the using of valuable high picks for replacing players at the same position. It becomes churning for the sake of churning without spreading out the talent to other positions. Clement and Gilmore demonstrate the futility of wasting high picks only to lose the same players whose position again needs to be addressed. Gilmore was a high draft pick who played for the most part at a high level. His contract expires and is subsequently let go because of the upcoming contract is too rich for the franchise. The end result is that he is now with the Patriots and the Bills probably will lose a player who will be replaced with another high pick. The end result is that the team is not adding talent---it is simply replacing talent. Staying in the same place especially when you are near the bottom doesn't help you compete against teams that are constantly getting better.

 

The heart and soul issue that has most to do with predicting success is the qb position. No one is discounting the fact that it is a challenge to find a credible qb to at the minimum gives you a reasonable chance to compete. Tell me how does any franchise go through two full decades without a legitimate franchise qb? What makes the situation even more irrational is that this franchise has an inexplicable casual attitude toward addressing an issue that calls for urgency. It makes no sense! Resorting to qbs such as Kolb, Orton, Brohm, Tuel etc etc even as stopgap measure is embarrassing.

 

The frustration is not so much about the generational mediocre status of the team. It is the repetition of the manner in which the franchise is being run. Nothing seems to be learned. That is what I find inexcusable and intolerable.

John, let me explain it this way:

 

You and I do disagree wrt Gilmore. You seem to feel that he was very good. I think he was fairly good despite lackluster effort. Let's put our feelings aside and pretend that he was great, ok? How much of a difference would he have made? How many times would the Bills have made the playoffs? Before Rex screwed up the defense Searcy was picking off passes because there was more consistent and better pass rush.

 

People on this board often confuse good players with good draft picks. Quarterbacks win football games. So do elite pass rushers and dynamic lines. Great receivers win games if they have a QB to get them the football.

 

The Bills used 2 firsts and a 4th to draft Watkins. HE is good (when healthy). This is beyond dispute. It was the draft pick that sucked. I liken it to buying and paying extra for a Jaguar without a steering wheel.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Bill from NYC

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

Which is why I said in my post above that what's killed the franchise for the past 17 years is the GM spot.

 

If you look back at the history of this, it goes back to when Butler negotiated with the Chargers behind Ralph's back. Ralph fired him for it, understandably so. And Butler before elaving put us in cap jail.

 

So Ralph then did what he had not done before and brought in Donahoe to be President and GM and run the entire organization. And that truly is where the wheels came off and have stayed off now for 17 years. Donahoe did not do a good job drafting, he did not do a good job identifying a HC, and eventually Ralph (probably at the urging of Littman, the guy who truly messed things up behind the scenes), had to get rid of Donahoe. When he did so, and because Donahoe was his first guy he gave unfettered power to, Ralph got gunshy. He only wanted guys he knew or guys he trusted, so back comes Marv, who had no business being a GM. And he brings in Jauron, who had no business being HC. Then again because Ralph was gun shy Brandon gets the GM duties put on him (and to be fair if you read interviews with Brandon he didn't want it but did it out of loyalty to Ralph), and that then begat Nix, and so on down the line. Bad GMs, making bad draft choices, making bad HC picks.

 

Under Terry, they made a lousy HC pick in Ryan, but recognized that. Whaley's been given some rope, but as we go along more and more I see Whaley as a company man who will say yes to whatever the boss wants, and is not the kind of strong minded GM that I would want if I were owner. On the flip side, he seems more than willing to work with the HC and give way to the HC choices on draft picks, etc. (at least with Ryan he did, Marrone maybe not but Marrone had his own control issues as well).

 

I desperately hope that with McDermott they finally have what they need, a young solid HC that will be successful and can be here quite a while. Whether Whaley is the right GM or not time will tell, but to me so long as the GM and HC are in synch on philosophy and work in tandem it's OK if the HC has more power if you will.

.....correct in EVERY detail my friend.....the DonoHOLE era set this club back a decade+.....he was an egotistical control freak....once Ralph's "Inner Circle of Trust was violated, he dug up Marv, "re-tired" him with 4 new Goodyears and started promoting Brandon into positions not qualified for.....the epitome of a patchwork FO and administration.....Nix and Modrak were the trusted "old guard" that oversaw personnel....some winners, some losers like their peers.....Pegula has a learning curve...anticipating a smooth transition to the driver's seat, everything went upside down with Marrone's exodus....Whaley and Brandon were summoned to TP's place in Boca on New Year's Eve and they met until 9PM...both were under contract but neither knew their long term status.......I think Pegula is now on much better footing going into year 3 with the keys.....Brandon hoodwinked him into the Wreck's hiring solely for tix.....all changed now.....McCoach so far seems like a straight shooting non nonsense guy solely about winning (Marrone adamantly professed it but his General Patton dictatorial ways were rebuffed by players, staff & brass)....Sean has the right balance (firm but fair), Whaley is clearly on notice that TP really likes this hiring, so let the games begin....light the torch...........

Edited April 17, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[JohnC]

John, let me explain it this way:

 

You and I do disagree wrt Gilmore. You seem to feel that he was very good. I think he was fairly good despite lackluster effort. Let's put our feelings aside and pretend that he was great, ok? How much of a difference would he have made? How many times would the Bills have made the playoffs? Before Rex screwed up the defense Searcy was picking off passes because there was more consistent and better pass rush.

 

People on this board often confuse good players with good draft picks. Quarterbacks win football games. So do elite pass rushers and dynamic lines. Great receivers win games if they have a QB to get them the football.

 

The Bills used 2 firsts and a 4th to draft Watkins. HE is good (when healthy). This is beyond dispute. It was the draft pick that sucked. I liken it to buying and paying extra for a Jaguar without a steering wheel.

Bill, I don't think you carefully read my post. We can respectfully disagree how good Gilmore was or not. That wasn't my point. It had to do with the futility of drafting a player and then letting him go and then draft to replace the player who was already on the roster. There is no gain in filling the hole that the departed player created. I also pointed out that assuming Gilmore was as good as I believe him to be his presence didn't rise to the level of being a difference maker. The reason for that is the real difference maker is the phantom qb that we have never been able to catch.

 

The point that I have made in my repeated posts in regards to roster building is that the first priority over a reasonable period of time is securing the qb position. The Bills have not had a credible franchise qb for more than two consecutive decades. What is even more criminally negligent is that it seems that this backwater franchise isn't willing to exert much effort and take a calculated risk in acquiring a capable qb.

 

Overall, we basically agree on the roster building strategy. You can have a flawed roster but with a good qb you still can compete. With a better roster without a capable qb you can't compete.

 

As you well know I used to be a strong defender of Whaley. No longer. He has had more than enough time to address the qb issue. What bothers me more than not having a legitimate franchise qb is his inability and unwillingness to prioritize securing the position that most determines success on the field. There have been plenty of opportunities but he has blithely allowed them to pass by. That upsets me the most.

 

The Watkins deal was costly. From a cap standpoint the Clay deal was costly. The lack of return is not because either is an inadequate player but because the caliber of the qbing was/is inadequate to maximize their talents. That makes no sense to me.

 

Many people are unwilling to accept the reality that this current roster, even after the draft, is not a playoff roster. This lackluster franchise remains stuck in the status quo of mediocrity because of this constant churning of players to replace players who have departed. When you stay still you don't move forward. A lesson that has not been learned.

[Bill from NYC]

Bill, I don't think you carefully read my post. We can respectfully disagree how good Gilmore was or not. That wasn't my point. It had to do with the futility of drafting a player and then letting him go and then draft to replace the player who was already on the roster. There is no gain in filling the hole that the departed player created. I also pointed out that assuming Gilmore was as good as I believe him to be his presence didn't rise to the level of being a difference maker. The reason for that is the real difference maker is the phantom qb that we have never been able to catch.

 

The point that I have made in my repeated posts in regards to roster building is that the first priority over a reasonable period of time is securing the qb position. The Bills have not had a credible franchise qb for more than two consecutive decades. What is even more criminally negligent is that it seems that this backwater franchise isn't willing to exert much effort and take a calculated risk in acquiring a capable qb.

 

Overall, we basically agree on the roster building strategy. You can have a flawed roster but with a good qb you still can compete. With a better roster without a capable qb you can't compete.

 

As you well know I used to be a strong defender of Whaley. No longer. He has had more than enough time to address the qb issue. What bothers me more than not having a legitimate franchise qb is his inability and unwillingness to prioritize securing the position that most determines success on the field. There have been plenty of opportunities but he has blithely allowed them to pass by. That upsets me the most.

 

The Watkins deal was costly. From a cap standpoint the Clay deal was costly. The lack of return is not because either is an inadequate player but because the caliber of the qbing was/is inadequate to maximize their talents. That makes no sense to me.

 

Many people are unwilling to accept the reality that this current roster, even after the draft, is not a playoff roster. This lackluster franchise remains stuck in the status quo of mediocrity because of this constant churning of players to replace players who have departed. When you stay still you don't move forward. A lesson that has not been learned.

We are on the same page. I think that for the most part we always were. We just talk in a different manner. :)

[JohnC]

We are on the same page. I think that for the most part we always were. We just talk in a different manner. :)

You and I have been long term participants on this platform. What has started to wear me down is witnessing and then commenting on the same cycle of futility. Different people sitting at the desks with similar approaches and results. There is a dispiriting sameness to it all. After the new ownership took control I expected the organization to be jolted with new energy and creativity. The hiring of Rex quickly sucked the new found hope out of me.

 

I'm sure I'm irritating to others with my repetitive criticisms because I'm irritating myself with the similar postings. I'm still awed in a negative way by the fact that a franchise can go through more than two decades without having a credible qb. How does that happen? What makes it even more weird is that the crowd enthusiastically continues to yell: let's draft a DB!

[oldmanfan]

JohnC. It's not unique to Buffalo though. Miami, Houston, Jets, Bears and others have been searching for QBs ever since they retirement of HOF types. It just speaks to the difficulty of finding a great QB.

 

Out of the hundreds of guys to play the position there are only about 30 QBs from the modern era in the HOF. Finding a QB of that caliber might be the toughest job in sports.

[JohnC]

JohnC. It's not unique to Buffalo though. Miami, Houston, Jets, Bears and others have been searching for QBs ever since they retirement of HOF types. It just speaks to the difficulty of finding a great QB.

 

Out of the hundreds of guys to play the position there are only about 30 QBs from the modern era in the HOF. Finding a QB of that caliber might be the toughest job in sports.

My complaint is that we passed on so many good prospects when we had a desperate need. The lack of effort bothers me as much as anything. There were plenty of good prospects at reasonable points in the draft where we didn't take action. Russell Wilson, Cousins, Dalton, Prescott, Carr, Bridgewater etc. The opportunities were there and two decades have passed by. This is unacceptable.

 

There are good qb prospects in this draft. How are we going to respond? That's the problem.

[oldmanfan]

My complaint is that we passed on so many good prospects when we had a desperate need. The lack of effort bothers me as much as anything. There were plenty of good prospects at reasonable points in the draft where we didn't take action. Russell Wilson, Cousins, Dalton, Prescott, Carr, Bridgewater etc. The opportunities were there and two decades have passed by. This is unacceptable.

 

There are good qb prospects in this draft. How are we going to respond? That's the problem.

I look at your list of good prospects and other than Wilson and perhaps Carr, the rest are not that great and/or unproven. This is why I posted my comment about the meaning of franchise QBs. Here you talk good prospects. Is that a franchise guy? Depends on your definition.

 

They could draft more potentially good QBs, but are any going to truly be better than TT? That said, I am sure they'll draft a kid this year. What pick? Who knows? But bottom line is that it's not just drafting guys, it's drafting the right guy. And that's just hard to figure out at the QB spot.

[BillsFan4]

Does he have any other option? McDermott was not Whaley's choice.

Where did you see this?

 

Everything I've seen has said Whaley was fully on board with McDermott.

He was even the very first person Whaley brought in for an interview (and Whaley said there was a good reason for that).

 

I have not seen anything that indicates Whaley didn't want McDermott. If you have links to credible sources that say otherwise, I'd definitely be interested to read them.

[34-78-83]

I don't think that we are. Obviously better QB play improves receivers. If the Bills threw him the ball 10 times a game based on his current per target production it is 105 catches, 1,689 yards and 12 TDs. They just need to throw him the ball. He isn't being held back by the QB. He's being held back by injuries and play calling. Hopefully Dennison sees it and makes a point to target him 10 times a game like Deandre Hopkins.

It really is that simple