News' Gaughan on Whether Modrak Was to Blame For Drafts

[eme123]

They really needed to do this a day after he died?

+1

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...the late TM probably had a similar success/failure rate as his peers......so let the man rest.......I always thought it was odd that he telecommuted from Florida, which may be a non-issue in the grand scheme of things.......

[JohnC]

I guess where we disagree is that it was a fiasco. When healthy he is an elite talent. You don't always get a chance at an elite talent. He was a guy that had an incredibly high floor and ceiling. He didn't have injury issues coming out. He led the league on a per target basis on 2014 and 2015. It's not that complicated to me, throw him the ball 10 times a game and you will have a superstar. Julio Jones has gotten 11 targets a game over the last 3 years and Antonio Brown 11.2, Sammy Watkins 6.5. Even on a run first team there is no reason to not throw him 10 balls, especially with your other pass catching options. If Sammy gets 10 targets a game (based on his per target numbers for his career) he would have 105 catches, 1,689 yards and 12 TDs. Who would complain about that?

You are either missing my point or making my point. The complaint is not over Watkins scintillating talents but rather over not having a qb in place that can maximize his talents. The same line of thinking applies to Clay. There are too many throws TT is not adept at such as middle of the field, seam routes and anticipatory throws where Watkins and Clay could be involved in. Eliminating a range of passing routes doesn't help any of our receivers.

 

Whaley took the arse-backward approach of getting good receivers to buttress his qb. That is not the right approach to take. The most sensible and productive approach is to get a qb who can maximize the outstanding talents of his two high cost receivers. He has compounded wasting the abundant receiving talents by not aggressively making credible attempts to upgrade the qb position so that he can get a good and longer return on his significant investment on his receivers. It makes no bloody sense!

 

The life of a position player such as receiver is not long. Years have already gone by having a deficient qb. In other words production by our expensive receiver is lost in the past, the present and near distant future. That's a return on a costly investment that can't be gotten back. What is not going to resolve the situation is having a GM that is dithering and too timid to rectify the inadequacy of the qb situation. That is a failure that has reverberated throughout the franchise for more than a generation. If you question my view then I suggest you review the extended team record. That's more telling then my lamenting over this ridiculous situation that has existed for more than two decades.

Edited April 16, 2017 by JohnC

[Kirby Jackson]

You are either missing my point or making my point. The complaint is not over Watkins scintillating talents but rather over not having a qb in place that can maximize his talents. The same line of thinking applies to Clay. There are too many throws TT is not adept at such as middle of the field, seam routes and anticipatory throws where Watkins and Clay could be involved in. Eliminating a range of passing routes doesn't help any of our receivers.

 

Whaley took the arse-backward approach of getting good receivers to buttress his qb. That is not the right approach to take. The most sensible and productive approach is to get a qb who can maximize the outstanding talents of his two high cost receivers. He has compounded wasting the abundant receiving talents by not aggressively making credible attempts to upgrade the qb position so that he can get a good and longer return on his significant investment on his receivers. It makes no bloody sense!

 

The life of a position player such as receiver is not long. Years have already gone by having a deficient qb. In other words production by our expensive receiver is lost in the past, the present and near distant future. That's a return on a costly investment that can't be gotten back. What is not going to resolve the situation is having a GM that is dithering and too timid to rectify the inadequacy of the qb situation. That is a failure that has reverberated throughout the franchise for more than a generation. If you question my view then I suggest you review the extended team record. That's more telling then my lamenting over this ridiculous situation that has existed for more than two decades.

Those are his numbers WITH our current QB situation. They just need to throw him the ball.

[JohnC]

Those are his numbers WITH our current QB situation. They just need to throw him the ball.

We are on different ships passing each other on the ocean in the dead of night and going in two different directions.

[Kirby Jackson]

We are on different ships passing each other on the ocean in the dead of night and going in two different directions.

I don't think that we are. Obviously better QB play improves receivers. If the Bills threw him the ball 10 times a game based on his current per target production it is 105 catches, 1,689 yards and 12 TDs. They just need to throw him the ball. He isn't being held back by the QB. He's being held back by injuries and play calling. Hopefully Dennison sees it and makes a point to target him 10 times a game like Deandre Hopkins. Edited April 16, 2017 by Kirby Jackson

[Bill from NYC]

@ChrisBrownBills - Breaking: Doug Whaley out, #TwoBillsDrive member @jeffismagic in at the GM position. Stay tuned for further updates. #Structure Change

I don't know Jeff, but I would bet that if he handled the drafts for the last 17 years, the Bills would have at least 1 playoff appearance. I would say the same for at least 50 other posters.

 

I don't blame you if you think that the above is bs mind you, but I truly do mean this. A couple (imo) could run the team quite well.

[T master]

There is no defending Maybin over Orakpo. Just a horrible decision.

 

AMEN !!

[JohnC]

I don't know Jeff, but I would bet that if he handled the drafts for the last 17 years, the Bills would have at least 1 playoff appearance. I would say the same for at least 50 other posters.

 

I don't blame you if you think that the above is bs mind you, but I truly do mean this. A couple (imo) could run the team quite well.

You have brought up the issue on a number of occasions so I'm not saying anything that hasn't been discussed before. This organization since the Polian era has had no guiding principle in putting together a roster. There is no blueprint. It's philosophy is basically a patchwork approach to drafting and to free agency. There is no core to build on.

 

I am not as critical as you are with the repeated drafting of backs and DBs. Where I am as critical as you are on that positional fixation is the using of valuable high picks for replacing players at the same position. It becomes churning for the sake of churning without spreading out the talent to other positions. Clement and Gilmore demonstrate the futility of wasting high picks only to lose the same players whose position again needs to be addressed. Gilmore was a high draft pick who played for the most part at a high level. His contract expires and is subsequently let go because of the upcoming contract is too rich for the franchise. The end result is that he is now with the Patriots and the Bills probably will lose a player who will be replaced with another high pick. The end result is that the team is not adding talent---it is simply replacing talent. Staying in the same place especially when you are near the bottom doesn't help you compete against teams that are constantly getting better.

 

The heart and soul issue that has most to do with predicting success is the qb position. No one is discounting the fact that it is a challenge to find a credible qb to at the minimum gives you a reasonable chance to compete. Tell me how does any franchise go through two full decades without a legitimate franchise qb? What makes the situation even more irrational is that this franchise has an inexplicable casual attitude toward addressing an issue that calls for urgency. It makes no sense! Resorting to qbs such as Kolb, Orton, Brohm, Tuel etc etc even as stopgap measure is embarrassing.

 

The frustration is not so much about the generational mediocre status of the team. It is the repetition of the manner in which the franchise is being run. Nothing seems to be learned. That is what I find inexcusable and intolerable.

[JohnC]

In regards to your last paragraph, Pegula may be a smart man in general, but his intelligence and feel for sports is nonexistent.

I agree with your comment to a certain extent. Where I disagree with you is that although he has been involved in making boondoggle mistakes (ex. hiring of Rex) he is not afraid of holding people accountable and changing directions. He has done it with his hockey and football franchises. Compared to the prior football ownership he provides the resources (sometimes not judiciously) for those in authority to conduct their business. So a lack of resources is not a legitimate excuse for failure.

 

Terry P may not be knowledgeable about the esoteric details of the football business but he knows how to keep score. When the scoring tilts too much to the losing side changes will be made. That's what happened with the hiring of the new coach (whom I like) and his shortening of the leash on the GM which is appropriate for his level of performance.

[oldmanfan]

He hasn't really held Whaley accountable though.

 

And if they have another disappointing season, what do you do?

 

Keep Whaley again? 5 straight years as GM and nothing to show for it. Or fire him and hire a new GM tied to McDermott.

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense and it tells me that Pegula didn't really give it a lot of thought.

To suggest a man that has made billions in industry and spent over one billion dollars on the BiIls does not give a lot of thought to his management team is delusional. He may not have made the right decisions such as Regier, but to say he doesn't think about it is absurd.

[jeffismagic]

To suggest a man that has made billions in industry and spent over one billion dollars on the BiIls does not give a lot of thought to his management team is delusional. He may not have made the right decisions such as Regier, but to say he doesn't think about it is absurd.

 

When asked who makes the final call in the Bills draft room a few weeks ago, Terry Pegula (who you claim gives this a lot of thought) could not answer that basic question.

[kota]

Just let the man RIP. What happened a Decade ago doesn't matter. Hell what happened yesterday doesn't matter either.

[oldmanfan]

 

When asked who makes the final call in the Bills draft room a few weeks ago, Terry Pegula (who you claim gives this a lot of thought) could not answer that basic question.

Actually he did answer it. He said they do so by consensus and if there was a disagreement between say McDermott and Whaley then they guy who felt most strongly about the pick would get the nod. Don't mistake not giving an answer you like for not answering at all.

 

Personally I would like to see a different structure. I'd give Whaley complete authority and let him sink or swim. But the ideal is for the GM and HC to be in synch on things if they are then agreement on who to take should be easy.

[jeffismagic]

Actually he did answer it. He said they do so by consensus and if there was a disagreement between say McDermott and Whaley then they guy who felt most strongly about the pick would get the nod. Don't mistake not giving an answer you like for not answering at all.

 

Personally I would like to see a different structure. I'd give Whaley complete authority and let him sink or swim. But the ideal is for the GM and HC to be in synch on things if they are then agreement on who to take should be easy.

 

What he offered was not structure. It's chaos.

[oldmanfan]

 

What he offered was not structure. It's chaos.

Because you think so does not make it so.

[jeffismagic]

Maybe he does give a lot of thought to it.

 

It's just not logical thought.

 

If the team bombs this year what do you do?

 

A house cleaning would be the logical thing to do, but they won't do that after just hiring McDermott. So you get rid of Whaley and bring in a guy who must be tied McDermott?

 

What qualified GM would want to take that job?

 

When have the Bills ever cared about that?!

Edited April 17, 2017 by jeffismagic

[oldmanfan]

Maybe he does give a lot of thought to it.

 

It's just not logical thought.

 

If the team bombs this year what do you do?

 

A house cleaning would be the logical thing to do, but they won't do that after just hiring McDermott. So you get rid of Whaley and bring in a guy who must be tied McDermott?

 

What qualified GM would want to take that job?

If the scenario you provide happens, then you keep McDermott and bring in a guy he knows he can work with. If you look around the league what is easy to see is that when you have effective GM/HC partnerships you win. The relative strength of position of each may differ depending on team (for example: Ozzie has the say so more than Harbaugh in Baltimore, Reed has more in KC, Belichick has al of it in NE), but having a front office and HC in synch is paramount to success.

 

From interviews, etc. McDermott and Whaley seem to be on the same page. That's what this franchise needs more than anything, a HC and GM that are here for the long term such that a tem philosophy is in place, so you know what type of players you want to draft every year, what types of FAs, etc. What has killed this franchise for 17 years now is poor selections at the GM spot and at the HC spot (driven in part by the poor GM choices). I have hope that McDermott is the type of young, solid HC that we can finally keep for quite a while. And if Whaley and him work effectively together great. But one way or another this coaching/GM merry go round has to stop.

 

And I think Terry Pegua thinks clearly on that.

 

When have the Bills ever cared about that?!

The name Bill Polian comes to mind.

[jeffismagic]

If the scenario you provide happens, then you keep McDermott and bring in a guy he knows he can work with. If you look around the league what is easy to see is that when you have effective GM/HC partnerships you win. The relative strength of position of each may differ depending on team (for example: Ozzie has the say so more than Harbaugh in Baltimore, Reed has more in KC, Belichick has al of it in NE), but having a front office and HC in synch is paramount to success.

 

From interviews, etc. McDermott and Whaley seem to be on the same page. That's what this franchise needs more than anything, a HC and GM that are here for the long term such that a tem philosophy is in place, so you know what type of players you want to draft every year, what types of FAs, etc. What has killed this franchise for 17 years now is poor selections at the GM spot and at the HC spot (driven in part by the poor GM choices). I have hope that McDermott is the type of young, solid HC that we can finally keep for quite a while. And if Whaley and him work effectively together great. But one way or another this coaching/GM merry go round has to stop.

 

And I think Terry Pegua thinks clearly on that.

The name Bill Polian comes to mind.

 

That's a long time ago. Nobody else in the last 20 years?

[oldmanfan]

 

That's a long time ago. Nobody else in the last 20 years?

 

 

That's a long time ago. Nobody else in the last 20 years?

Which is why I said in my post above that what's killed the franchise for the past 17 years is the GM spot.

 

If you look back at the history of this, it goes back to when Butler negotiated with the Chargers behind Ralph's back. Ralph fired him for it, understandably so. And Butler before elaving put us in cap jail.

 

So Ralph then did what he had not done before and brought in Donahoe to be President and GM and run the entire organization. And that truly is where the wheels came off and have stayed off now for 17 years. Donahoe did not do a good job drafting, he did not do a good job identifying a HC, and eventually Ralph (probably at the urging of Littman, the guy who truly messed things up behind the scenes), had to get rid of Donahoe. When he did so, and because Donahoe was his first guy he gave unfettered power to, Ralph got gunshy. He only wanted guys he knew or guys he trusted, so back comes Marv, who had no business being a GM. And he brings in Jauron, who had no business being HC. Then again because Ralph was gun shy Brandon gets the GM duties put on him (and to be fair if you read interviews with Brandon he didn't want it but did it out of loyalty to Ralph), and that then begat Nix, and so on down the line. Bad GMs, making bad draft choices, making bad HC picks.

 

Under Terry, they made a lousy HC pick in Ryan, but recognized that. Whaley's been given some rope, but as we go along more and more I see Whaley as a company man who will say yes to whatever the boss wants, and is not the kind of strong minded GM that I would want if I were owner. On the flip side, he seems more than willing to work with the HC and give way to the HC choices on draft picks, etc. (at least with Ryan he did, Marrone maybe not but Marrone had his own control issues as well).

 

I desperately hope that with McDermott they finally have what they need, a young solid HC that will be successful and can be here quite a while. Whether Whaley is the right GM or not time will tell, but to me so long as the GM and HC are in synch on philosophy and work in tandem it's OK if the HC has more power if you will.