GunnerBill Posted April 17, 2017 Posted April 17, 2017 You read a lot into that and VY 1Both have big accuracy, arm strength and footwork questions. Both great athletes which sometimes masks their deficiencies at QB. Most importantly, the post that o replied to made the point that they were great in college against elite competition. Young was great against the best college teams, even beating the Dynasty of his time (USC) in one of the greatest college games ever. They are very similar. I don't see any similarities really. Young couldn't even throw properly.
transplantbillsfan Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 So here's a question that might be a bit of a conundrum for readers of this article and advocates of drafting that QB at 10 and seeing this as further proof: How much do you value Fahey's analysis? If you research him, he's really turned himself into one of the more prolific "film rats" in terms of QB analysis as of late having worked at FootballOutsiders for years and put out these "presnapreads articles. And I know he's now making TV appearances on the Dan LeBetard show. I ask because if you follow him, he really likes Tyrod Taylor and would almost certainly be against drafting any of these QBs at 10.
jeffismagic Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) So here's a question that might be a bit of a conundrum for readers of this article and advocates of drafting that QB at 10 and seeing this as further proof: How much do you value Fahey's analysis? If you research him, he's really turned himself into one of the more prolific "film rats" in terms of QB analysis as of late having worked at FootballOutsiders for years and put out these "presnapreads articles. And I know he's now making TV appearances on the Dan LeBetard show. I ask because if you follow him, he really likes Tyrod Taylor and would almost certainly be against drafting any of these QBs at 10. He's the worst writer on QB's. I can't think of a close second. He got known for analytics or numbers analysis. Now he is a wannabe Greg Cossell (who also is pretty bad at scouting college QB's). Who did Fahey think was the only QB worthy of a 1st round pick last year? Vernon Adams. The most obvious difference between the two is their respective abilities throwing the ball deep downfield. Mariota struggles to throw with precision past 25 yards downfield. Adams has no such issues. His passes sustain velocity long past 25 yards and he can place the ball comfortably whether throwing from a standing position in the pocket or while moving outside of the pocket. In the above play, Adams lingers on his first read ( ) before pressure arrives in his face. He reacts just in time, turning away from the immediate defender but running into another. This is where Adams’ awareness and athleticism stands out. Despite turning into the defender in a tight space, Adams is able to jump cut away from the defender and escape into the flat. One of the traits that Wilson and Taylor share is their eye-level. When they break the pocket, they don’t immediately look to run. They keep their eyes downfield to give their receivers every chance to make a play. Adams shows off similar poise here, keeping his eyes downfield and delivering the ball just a linebacker arrives. Adams drops an accurate pass over the trailing defensive back down the right sideline. http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/23/vernon-adams-deserves-to-be-a-first-round-pick-in-the-2016-nfl-draft/ Edited April 18, 2017 by jeffismagic
Thurman#1 Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 qb no.1 evaluation over everything else...td to int. ratio. qbs who are in the 90/10% seem to always succeed vs. 60/40% thats why i'd rather go trubisky 30-6 my ratios above are a general but it's the idea and the number one indicator to me. a qb who throws over 15 picks in a season in college is probably gonna be a pick machine in the pros///jmo Matt Ryan threw 19 INTs in his senior year. IMHO, it isn't that simple. But I do like Trubisky.
Thurman#1 Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) Who is Howard Cossell? Is he any relation to Howard Cosell, of MNF fame? Neither guy is a fossil. I see similarities to HOF OT Tony Boselli, And some not very entertaining humor from some folks on here. Edited April 18, 2017 by Thurman#1
transplantbillsfan Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 He's the worst writer on QB's. I can't think of a close second. He got known for analytics or numbers analysis. Now he is a wannabe Greg Cossell (who also is pretty bad at scouting college QB's). Who did Fahey think was the only QB worthy of a 1st round pick last year? Vernon Adams. The most obvious difference between the two is their respective abilities throwing the ball deep downfield. Mariota struggles to throw with precision past 25 yards downfield. Adams has no such issues. His passes sustain velocity long past 25 yards and he can place the ball comfortably whether throwing from a standing position in the pocket or while moving outside of the pocket. In the above play, Adams lingers on his first read ( ) before pressure arrives in his face. He reacts just in time, turning away from the immediate defender but running into another. This is where Adams awareness and athleticism stands out. Despite turning into the defender in a tight space, Adams is able to jump cut away from the defender and escape into the flat. One of the traits that Wilson and Taylor share is their eye-level. When they break the pocket, they dont immediately look to run. They keep their eyes downfield to give their receivers every chance to make a play. Adams shows off similar poise here, keeping his eyes downfield and delivering the ball just a linebacker arrives. Adams drops an accurate pass over the trailing defensive back down the right sideline. http://presnapreads.com/2016/03/23/vernon-adams-deserves-to-be-a-first-round-pick-in-the-2016-nfl-draft/ With all due respect, whose opinion do you actually respect? I guarantee you can find at least one massive "swing and a miss" from literally every "expert" or "guru" out there. At least with Fahey you get tangible results for every single NFL QB from every single snap they take. A lot of these other guys just say "here's what I noticed after watching the tape."
Coach Tuesday Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 He's the worst writer on QB's. I can't think of a close second. Really? I can...
jeffismagic Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 With all due respect, whose opinion do you actually respect? I guarantee you can find at least one massive "swing and a miss" from literally every "expert" or "guru" out there. At least with Fahey you get tangible results for every single NFL QB from every single snap they take. A lot of these other guys just say "here's what I noticed after watching the tape." If you actually want a guy that is honest and shows his work, Matt Waldman. He actually describes in exact detail what he is judging. He spends time learning what the QB is supposed to do on a play so he can evaluate what he is seeing. For example, I have seen other writers do things like post a clip of a college QB throwing an INT with no context. No mention that the QB is down more than 2 scores in the 4th quarter and has less than 30 seconds on the clock. Common sense and context matter. I like people who use those things and not guys talking about CFL scrubs like Vernon Adams "lingering" on reads or ballet dancing and Kizer. The best part about Waldman is there is nuance. You can go through his notes or watch a one hour video of plays he is showing and feel like you are in control. It's the difference between reading a record review and listening to the thing yourself with notes from someone else.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 Matt Ryan threw 19 INTs in his senior year. IMHO, it isn't that simple. But I do like Trubisky. 4 of them were to VT, who the poor guy had to play twice
mannc Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 If you actually want a guy that is honest and shows his work, Matt Waldman. He actually describes in exact detail what he is judging. He spends time learning what the QB is supposed to do on a play so he can evaluate what he is seeing. For example, I have seen other writers do things like post a clip of a college QB throwing an INT with no context. No mention that the QB is down more than 2 scores in the 4th quarter and has less than 30 seconds on the clock. Common sense and context matter. I like people who use those things and not guys talking about CFL scrubs like Vernon Adams "lingering" on reads or ballet dancing and Kizer. The best part about Waldman is there is nuance. You can go through his notes or watch a one hour video of plays he is showing and feel like you are in control. It's the difference between reading a record review and listening to the thing yourself with notes from someone else. Last year Waldman had Cardale Jones as his second rated QB, behind Goff and ahead of Wentz. Had Dak as 19th-rated QB.
jeffismagic Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 Last year Waldman had Cardale Jones as his second rated QB, behind Goff and ahead of Wentz. Had Dak as 19th-rated QB. As I said, I like Waldman not because I want his ratings, but I do like the way he presents what he is doing. It's a more transparent process and makes any of his draft prospect breakdowns worthwhile.
mannc Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 As I said, I like Waldman not because I want his ratings, but I do like the way he presents what he is doing. It's a more transparent process and makes any of his draft prospect breakdowns worthwhile. I wasn't picking on him--I actually agree with his CJ ranking. And obviously, he wasn't the only one not sold on Dak.
jeffismagic Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 I wasn't picking on him--I actually agree with his CJ ranking. And obviously, he wasn't the only one not sold on Dak. One person I know had this QB board last year: 1. Carson Wentz 2. Dak Prescott 3. Jacoby Brissett
HappyDays Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 Last year Waldman had Cardale Jones as his second rated QB, behind Goff and ahead of Wentz. Had Dak as 19th-rated QB. Oof swing and a miss... I don't really care how good your breakdowns are or whatever if you're that bad at picking QBs, although admittedly it's only been one season to evaluate those rankings. Fahey might not be off on Vernon Adams by the way, he's played exactly one year in the CFL and NFL teams do notoriously overrate size in QB prospects. Not saying I agree with the 1st round designation but it's early for him yet.
Royale with Cheese Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 LMAO can you see on Draft day McDermott looking at Whaley and the top scouts saying "I am trying real hard not to completely lose my **** on all of you right now, but you're not making it easy." My friend you and I agree on many things, but I say Cosell is nothing more than another "expert" that knows nothing. Remember this? http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000152748/article/ryan-nassib-is-top-qb-in-nfl-draft-greg-cosell-says No one is perfect in this type of position. Bill Walsh was high on Jim Drunkenmiller and Trent Edwards. Does that mean Bill Walsh knows nothing? I guess unless you're 100% perfect, you know nothing.
Last Guy on the Bench Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 One person I know had this QB board last year: 1. Carson Wentz 2. Dak Prescott 3. Jacoby Brissett That's an impressive board. Who does he/she like this year?
jeffismagic Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 That's an impressive board. Who does he/she like this year? Mahomes Trubisky Dobbs
thunderingsquid Posted April 18, 2017 Posted April 18, 2017 My metric for QBs:3 or more years of experience with 60%+ completion rate over those years.
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