papazoid Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) #1 - Tpegs wants a qb #2- the way they have gone about free agency by filling all their needs with value type players suggest they are preparing to use #10 on the QB of the future. #3 - whaley likes mobile QB's......Watson or Kizer Edited April 12, 2017 by papazoid
starrymessenger Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 do you remember all the Bills talk around Hackenberg before that draft? Did the bills really have an interest in him? I don't think they did. but it moved the Jets to take him earlier than thought. the kid is still on the bench. Shame on the Jets. Even I thought that was a bonehead move.
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 #1 - Tpegs wants a qb #2- the way they have gone about free agency by filling all their needs with value type players suggest they are preparing to use #10 on the QB of the future. #3 - whaley likes mobile QB's......Watson or Kizer Trubisky is pretty mobile
PolishDave Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) #1 - Tpegs wants a qb #2- the way they have gone about free agency by filling all their needs with value type players suggest they are preparing to use #10 on the QB of the future. #3 - whaley likes mobile QB's......Watson or Kizer Trubisky is pretty mobile The only QB in this draft that fits Whaley's size requirements is Kizer. And Kizer isn't worth a first round draft. So, I am guessing they take him in the second if he is still there. If not, then maybe they take a flyer on a later round guy like Peterman - even thought they are not really confident he will become the starter and/or franchise material at some point. Wildcard factor = McDermott If McDermott tells Whaley go get me "this qb" because I am going to bet my coaching tenure here on him. Then I think Whaley goes and gets him whoever that is. Don't know if McDermott is that high on anybody. P.S. If the Bills end up taking Trubisky - how long is it before the bills fans turn him into a Polak by misspelling his last name to make him look Polish - Trubiski - like they did with Belichick - and made him Belicheck so he sounds Polish? Edited April 12, 2017 by PolishDave
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) Whaley has a size "requirement" for QB? Missed that. Why are they looking so hard at anyone other than Kizer if that's the case? Edited April 12, 2017 by YoloinOhio
PolishDave Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Whaley has a size "requirement" for QB? Missed that. Why are they looking so hard at anyone other than Kizer if that's the case? Just a rumor. At least I thought Whaley was rumored to heavily favoring tall quarterbacks. Could be wrong about that. Ben Roethelisberger = 6'5" EJ = 6'5" Cardale = 6'5" Tyrod = gift for Rex Ryan Maybe Kizer is actually too short too at only 6'4" Of the better QB's in the draft Kizer is the one who is closest to resembling those other QB's Whaley approved of.
jeffismagic Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Just a rumor. At least I thought Whaley was rumored to heavily favoring tall quarterbacks. Could be wrong about that. Ben Roethelisberger = 6'5" EJ = 6'5" Cardale = 6'5" Tyrod = gift for Rex Ryan Maybe Kizer is actually too short too at only 6'4" Of the better QB's in the draft Kizer is the one who is closest to resembling those other QB's Whaley approved of. Don't forget Big Hands. Whaley was very clear on that with EJ.
Dr. Who Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Whaley has a size "requirement" for QB? Missed that. Why are they looking so hard at anyone other than Kizer if that's the case? EJ and Cardale are big, so on that basis and supposed Pittsburgh background and Big Ben = size requirement in many people's minds. I think that is an overgeneralization based on small sample size. Either we are involved in an elaborate smokescreen or we are interested in a number of qbs likely to go in the first round. Personally, I like Mahomes, Watson, and Trubisky and very much hope we end up with one of these fellas.
PolishDave Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 EJ and Cardale are big, so on that basis and supposed Pittsburgh background and Big Ben = size requirement in many people's minds. I think that is an overgeneralization based on small sample size. Either we are involved in an elaborate smokescreen or we are interested in a number of qbs likely to go in the first round. Personally, I like Mahomes, Watson, and Trubisky and very much hope we end up with one of these fellas. No. There was a rumor that Whaley strongly favors tall quarterbacks. I offered the examples of those 3 quarterbacks as evidence that suggests the rumor could very well be true. I didn't invent that thought because of EJ and Cardale. The rumor was there first. Then I went and looked at who Whaley drafted and thought hmm.... maybe there is truth to that rumor.
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Just a rumor. At least I thought Whaley was rumored to heavily favoring tall quarterbacks. Could be wrong about that. Ben Roethelisberger = 6'5" EJ = 6'5" Cardale = 6'5" Tyrod = gift for Rex Ryan Maybe Kizer is actually too short too at only 6'4" Of the better QB's in the draft Kizer is the one who is closest to resembling those other QB's Whaley approved of. I don't consider Ben one of Whaley's picks. I think he was mostly a pro scout in Pittsburgh, correct? The other two I do, could be a pattern but too small of a sample size to draw a conclusion about who he is open to drafting. He also really liked Prescott.
Andrew Son Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Don't forget Big Hands. Whaley was very clear on that with EJ. No chance of that, thanks to your contributions
PolishDave Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 I don't consider Ben one of Whaley's picks. I think he was mostly a pro scout in Pittsburgh, correct? The other two I do, could be a pattern but too small of a sample size to draw a conclusion about who he is open to drafting. He also really liked Prescott. We shall see. If he takes a shorter guy early - then I guess size isn't a deciding factor for him. I don't know that it is for sure. Just thinking the rumor makes sense. My opinion on Whaley (could be totally wrong about this - it is an unfounded opinion) is that he is the type of GM who thinks that his opinions of players potential are more important than the players' playing history and proven track records. Just my sense of him. Can't explain why I think that of him. Just a gut feeling. Could be completely off base.
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) We shall see. If he takes a shorter guy early - then I guess size isn't a deciding factor for him. I don't know that it is for sure. Just thinking the rumor makes sense. My opinion on Whaley (could be totally wrong about this - it is an unfounded opinion) is that he is the type of GM who thinks that his opinions of players potential are more important than the players' playing history and proven track records. Just my sense of him. Can't explain why I think that of him. Just a gut feeling. Could be completely off base. most QBs are shorter than EJ and Cardale so good chance he does I agree TT was a Rex signing... but dont forget Orton and Cassel! Both were Whaley signings. Neither were super tall. Edited April 12, 2017 by YoloinOhio
PolishDave Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 most QBs are shorter than EJ and Cardale so good chance he does I agree TT was a Rex signing... but dont forget Orton and Cassel! Both were Whaley signings. Neither were super tall. You are correct. When bringing in a free agent though, your choices are much more limited. Most of the time when you sign a free agent quarterback, you don't expect him to become a franchise qb. When you draft a qb you draft him with the intention of him hopefully becoming a franchise guy. So you are pickier about such things like size requirement. And you can afford to be pickier when drafting as there are more college QB's with unknown upside potential than there are free agent qb's with unknown upside potential. The upside potential on most free agent QB's has already been determined to be "less than franchise QB quality". (whether right or wrong) Free agent QB's are selected based on - best choice of a small pool of guys already mostly proven to be not good enough. Drafted QB's are selected based on - who do you think can become a franchise QB or an elite NFL qb
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 You are correct. When bringing in a free agent though, your choices are much more limited. Most of the time when you sign a free agent quarterback, you don't expect him to become a franchise qb. When you draft a qb you draft him with the intention of him hopefully becoming a franchise guy. So you are pickier about such things like size requirement. And you can afford to be pickier when drafting as there are more college QB's with unknown upside potential than there are free agent qb's with unknown upside potential. The upside potential on most free agent QB's has already been determined to be "less than franchise QB quality". (whether right or wrong) Free agent QB's are selected based on - best choice of a small pool of guys already mostly proven to be not good enough. Drafted QB's are selected based on - who do you think can become a franchise QB or an elite NFL qb true. Kizer certainly "looks like" EJ/Cardale in many ways. We shall see. Also will be interesting if the Browns go through with cutting Osweiler (cuz you know he's not good enough for them, eye roll) for the size factor
PolishDave Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 true. Kizer certainly "looks like" EJ/Cardale in many ways. We shall see. Also will be interesting if the Browns go through with cutting Osweiler (cuz you know he's not good enough for them, eye roll) for the size factor Yeah. Personally I think the whole size thing is B.S. Does it help you see the field better if you are taller - of course. Does it help you to control the ball better if your hands are big - most definitely. Still can have really talented players who are a little undersized. Drew Brees Russ Wilson among many others in history. If Whaley truly does have a (very tall) qb size requirement - and I knew that to be factually true, I would think much less of him as a talent evaluator. Because that would prove that he thinks his intelligence supersedes the importance of a players playing ability. Which of course is bullcrap.
Dr. Who Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 There are probably certain minimums that make sense, but too strict a size criteria is foolish.
Figster Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 Yeah. Personally I think the whole size thing is B.S. Does it help you see the field better if you are taller - of course. Does it help you to control the ball better if your hands are big - most definitely. Still can have really talented players who are a little undersized. Drew Brees Russ Wilson among many others in history. If Whaley truly does have a (very tall) qb size requirement - and I knew that to be factually true, I would think much less of him as a talent evaluator. Because that would prove that he thinks his intelligence supersedes the importance of a players playing ability. Which of course is bullcrap. Anything below the height of most linemans shoulder pads limits a QB's view of the football field in my humble opinion. In the right system the limitation can be managed. On the other hand why draft a 6 ft one QB If a '6 4" QB with the same skill set is available.
WhoTom Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 I have to agree with Logic - if they see someone they think could be a franchise QB, they'll take him whenever he's available. I know they got burned doing that with EJ, but they probably looked at other times when they didn't pull the trigger - Russel Wilson, for example - and regretted waiting. It's better to roll the dice and crap out than not to play at all.
YoloinOhio Posted April 12, 2017 Posted April 12, 2017 The fact that McD said it could be a smokescreen, and both John Murphy and Sal said they think it's a smokescreen, I'm thinking it isn't.
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