Dr. Who Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I like this post a lot. I think it's a great point about risk adverse. I always felt like EJ had every physical tool you wanted in a qb but he played like a robot and didn't want to screw up. If you put Fitz' head into EJ's body, it would an all time great qb. I like some things Tyrod does but he is too Alex Smith for me. Smith is definitely a starter in the league but are you really a threat? I haven't studied Mahomes as much but I do believe Watson is more Favre than Smith. And I'd rather have Favre than Smith. Yep. I like Watson as well. I saw a lot of Clemson games -- I live in the South and one of my buds is a Clemson fan -- Watson will trust his receivers to make a play and he rises to the occasion. Folks question his arm strength. I think its strong enough.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Yes, there are QBs in this draft with franchise potential. this is all you had to say and I likely would never of quoted/questioned your post. you first posted "draft the franchise QB' then went on to post the above. crap shoot, no guarantee. as long as you're not posting your opinion as fact and realize it's just your opinion, it's all good.
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 this is all you had to say and I likely would never of quoted/questioned your post. you first posted "draft the franchise QB' then went on to post the above. crap shoot, no guarantee. as long as you're not posting your opinion as fact and realize it's just your opinion, it's all good. This is a weird theme that seems to be coming up a lot since the closure of another message board. I am posting my opinion on an internet message board. Why do I need to preface every post with "in my opinion"? Seems redundant.
Mark Vader Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 The reason is because there are so many more high end prospects. Some will improve their stock and others will regress. By the time the draft starts next year maybe Josh Allen is the guy? Or Mason Rudolph? Or Luke Falk? Or Jake Browning? The other reason is that every draft pick is a gamble. QBs are always going to get pushed up the board. If we were taking a guy at 10 this year, he by most accounts, won't be one of the 20 best players in this draft (according to grades). That doesn't mean that he won't pan out. If you were to take a QB at 10 next year, there are probably 3 players today at QB that are considered top 10 players in the 2018 draft. We know a lot can change from year to year but some drafts are better at some positions than others. It isn't a "wait until next year" as much as it is "get the best value." This is a GREAT year to need DBs and a lousy year to need OL. Next year appears to be a very strong QB class. It can always change but with the depth of the group it would be nearly impossible for it to be a lesser class than this. This QB class is okay (better than 2013 & maybe a little worse than 2014). Next year's class looks to be top heavy like 2015 and deep like 2004. You can't draft 1st round QBs 2 years in a row. You just can't. You can't let Pro Bowl players pass while you keep trying guys out. You probably can't even do it every 2 years. In the salary cap era you need some of your better players to be on their rookie deals. I agree with you, Kirby. The QB's in next years draft are more than Darnold(if he declares) & Rosen. There are several QB's that have looked very good and are potential franchise players. All of the QB's you listed may not have first round grades, but they definitely are at the 2nd round level. It is a much deeper class than this year's. And there are other QB's like Baker Mayfield & Wilton Speight that are on the radar too. As for the original question of this topic, I would trade down. The Bills need more than 6 picks in this years draft. Even if they end up just getting one extra pick, that is a win.
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I agree with you, Kirby. The QB's in next years draft are more than Darnold(if he declares) & Rosen. There are several QB's that have looked very good and are potential franchise players. All of the QB's you listed may not have first round grades, but they definitely are at the 2nd round level. It is a much deeper class than this year's. And there are other QB's like Baker Mayfield & Wilton Speight that are on the radar too. As for the original question of this topic, I would trade down. The Bills need more than 6 picks in this years draft. Even if they end up just getting one extra pick, that is a win. How did the much better 2004 NFL draft work out for the Bills? 3 Pro- Bowlers in first 11 picks yet no benefit to Buffalo who wanted one at the time.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 How did the much better 2004 NFL draft work out for the Bills? 3 Pro- Bowlers in first 11 picks yet no benefit to Buffalo who wanted one at the time. I'm not sure I understand your argument here. The 2004 QB class is undeniably better than the 2003 class.
K-9 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Depends ENTIRELY on who is still on the board at 10. If there's a legit top 10 player still available there, take him. BPA is always the way to go when there's premium, blue-chip talent there to be taken.
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) I'm not sure I understand your argument here. The 2004 QB class is undeniably better than the 2003 class.We are being told to wait until 2018 to draft a QB because it is going to be stronger QB class. I just demonstrated how the Bills got to draft in the greatest QB class in 20 years and missed out on the first 3 QBs. Let's say 2018 has three top 5 picks that are QBs. Bills draft 7th. Then what?! Edited April 7, 2017 by jeffismagic
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 We are being told to wait until 2018 to draft a QB because it is going to be stronger QB class. I just demonstrated how the Bills got to draft in the greatest QB class in 20 years and missed out on the first 3 QBs. Let's say 2018 has three top 5 picks that are QBs. Bills draft 7th. Then what?! So should they have taken Kyle Boller or Rex Grossman in '03 then?
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I trade back because I'm not a big fan of any of these guys, but if the FO takes one, I'm all in with hope that we found our franchise qb. I like Maholmes and Watson the most. I think Watson has the highest floor and maholmes has the highest ceiling. .....agree with trade back for picks.....saw a mock where the top 10 consisted of 9 defensive players and Mitch going to the Jesters at 6......Mahomes is talked about quite a bit here but most pundits' "Top 10 QB Picks" have him in the middle of the pack around #5.......Watson kid seems to remain consistently in their top 5 picks though.....and now the latest curve ball is Webb claiming clubs see him as a definite 1st............
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 So should they have taken Kyle Boller or Rex Grossman in '03 then? No. Because 2003 does not correspond to 2017. The point is that a strong QB class does not get us a top QB unless we are top 5. And it seems likely that the Bills are trying to Jauron a 5 win roster to 7 wins this year.
Mark Vader Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 How did the much better 2004 NFL draft work out for the Bills? 3 Pro- Bowlers in first 11 picks yet no benefit to Buffalo who wanted one at the time. I'm not getting your point about this. I will say that I am not a fan of this years QB class and I think the Bills are better off using their picks on other areas of need. I'm willing to give Tyrod another chance, and taking a QB next year.
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I'm not getting your point about this. I will say that I am not a fan of this years QB class and I think the Bills are better off using their picks on other areas of need. I'm willing to give Tyrod another chance, and taking a QB next year. We can wait till next year but that doesn't mean we get a top QB next year even if we want one. And giving Tyrod another chance is the worst idea ever. We have 2 years of NFL games to watch as he struggles to throw over 200 yards.
Mark Vader Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 We can wait till next year but that doesn't mean we get a top QB next year even if we want one. And giving Tyrod another chance is the worst idea ever. We have 2 years of NFL games to watch as he struggles to throw over 200 yards. If there is a QB that the Bills really want, they will take him. Be it this year or next year. I personally think that there are better QB's to be had next year, and I am not sold on this years class.
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 If there is a QB that the Bills really want, they will take him. Be it this year or next year. I personally think that there are better QB's to be had next year, and I am not sold on this years class. So how do you propose we get a top 3 pick next year?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 No. Because 2003 does not correspond to 2017. The point is that a strong QB class does not get us a top QB unless we are top 5. And it seems likely that the Bills are trying to Jauron a 5 win roster to 7 wins this year. I don't think '03 is that far off from my expectations of '17. If this class yields a Carson Palmer and a Byron Leftwich it would exceed my expectations. At the end of the day, not selecting a QB in '03 turned out to be a good choice, and the Bills did take a shot on a QB in a much better class. Shame it didn't work out, but the logic was sound. If I'm not mistaken you expect us to win 5-6 games this year. That normally nets you a pick in the 6-10 range, which will give you a nice shot at one of the top prospects. If you're worried beyond that you trade up to get your guy like Washington or Philly.
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 This is a weird theme that seems to be coming up a lot since the closure of another message board. I am posting my opinion on an internet message board. Why do I need to preface every post with "in my opinion"? Seems redundant. you insecure? don't like "outsiders" questioning your posts? not in your click huh? my bad.
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I don't think '03 is that far off from my expectations of '17. If this class yields a Carson Palmer and a Byron Leftwich it would exceed my expectations. At the end of the day, not selecting a QB in '03 turned out to be a good choice, and the Bills did take a shot on a QB in a much better class. Shame it didn't work out, but the logic was sound. If I'm not mistaken you expect us to win 5-6 games this year. That normally nets you a pick in the 6-10 range, which will give you a nice shot at one of the top prospects. If you're worried beyond that you trade up to get your guy like Washington or Philly. If the QBs have no flaws you aren't getting them on a trade up. This QB class is probably a 2014. If we get to grab Derek Carr in a "poor" draft class that is better than a JP Losman in an amazing QB class.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 If the QBs have no flaws you aren't getting them on a trade up. This QB class is probably a 2014. If we get to grab Derek Carr in a "poor" draft class that is better than a JP Losman in an amazing QB class. I get that that's how you've evaluated it, but I do my own evaluations. My highest graded QB this year is 6 points lower than the grade I had on Carr. I do not see a Derek Carr in this class. I also do not see any QBs with no flaws coming out next year, but my preliminary evals give me much higher hopes than this year's class.
Mark Vader Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 So how do you propose we get a top 3 pick next year? Are you saying that the only way to get a talented QB is to have a Top 3 pick? That's ridiculous. You can get a talented QB in the Top 10 or 15. To answer your question, if the Bills want a QB very much and need to have a Top 3 pick to do it, then you would have to trade up to get it.
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