Do You BitCoin?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

fake money  SMH

[Augie]

Golic and Wingo were talking about a singer who turned down a gig for a boat load of Bitcoins years ago....that would now be worth $1.5 BILLION. 

 

Oops! 

[BeginnersMind]

On 12/8/2017 at 8:40 AM, PolishDave said:

 

Your scenario is complete nonsense dude.   If you can't understand that, then I can't help you.

 

When you go to a bank to borrow money, - say borrow $20,000 to buy a car, the bank won't let you pay it back in pesos or Euros or whatever.   It wants dollars back.

 

It is no different than any other currency in the situation you are describing.

 

Nobody would go borrow some other currency (whether Bitcoin or Pesos or Euros or whatever) for a loan intending to pay it back in some other currency.    Well, maybe you can find someone who does that.   But it isn't normal.

 

Your loan scenario is just not realistic.

 

As far as the fluctuation in the price of the currency goes, yes that is a major deterrent for people actually using it to conduct business.   The people who own Bitcoin now are hesitant to exchange it for anything because of the massive upward move in price. Price stability does matter if you want people to use it to conduct business as a part of their normal everyday life.    Instability is bad for Bitcoin and cryptos in general for convincing people to switch to them instead of using whatever currency they currently use.

 

The problem with cryptos is that the demand for them currently dwarfs the supply.   But the demand is currently been created by speculators - not by people wanting to use them as a form of currency.   And yes, that is bad for the short and intermediate term for the main idea behind cryptos.   It will scare away financially conservative minded people - which most people are I suspect. 

 

It’s realistic because no one accepts bitcoins as payment. They have to be converted to a real currency to get 99.999% of things done. And thus its fluctuation is relevant when discussing its relevance (or not) as currency. 

 

We both agree it is not a currency. It’s a highly speculative asset class. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by BeginnersMind

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, BeginnersMind said:

 

It’s realistic because no one accepts bitcoins as payment. They have to be converted to a real currency to get 99.999% of things done. And thus its fluctuation is relevant when discussing its relevance (or not) as currency. 

 

We both agree it is not a currency. It’s a highly speculative asset class. 

ahh but it is a currency. albeit just not as widely accepted as yet. cryptos are gaining more and more acceptance everyday though with more and more businesses coming into the fold.

 

the Lightening Network will increase that adoption rate immensely.

[PolishDave]

12 hours ago, Foxx said:

ahh but it is a currency. albeit just not as widely accepted as yet. cryptos are gaining more and more acceptance everyday though with more and more businesses coming into the fold.

 

the Lightening Network will increase that adoption rate immensely.

 

Adoption here in America will continue to be very slow (my opinion).

 

Americans aren't seeing it as a need that they want filled.     That is why I think it will take something like rampant inflation to push people to use it.    High inflation would create the "need" that Americans would want.    Without a need, there is no real incentive to use any crypto compared to the dollar - unless you are trying to hide transactions from Uncle Sam and/or law enforcement.

 

I can't see what other event is going to spark people to really want to use it.    Can you?

Edited December 11, 2017 by PolishDave

[BeginnersMind]

2 hours ago, Foxx said:

ahh but it is a currency. albeit just not as widely accepted as yet. cryptos are gaining more and more acceptance everyday though with more and more businesses coming into the fold.

 

the Lightening Network will increase that adoption rate immensely.

 

Do you want to be on either side of a BTC for a product (that is not speculative) transaction? 

 

Of course not, because it has no stability. 

[wnysteel]

i wonder what effect the new futures market will have on btc.

[row_33]

1 hour ago, wnysteel said:

i wonder what effect the new futures market will have on btc.

 

those invested will defend it as Utopia 1000%, even if it tanks.

 

[Tiberius]

I just hope when this bubble bursts it doesn't take anything else down with it 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Tiberius said:

I just hope when this bubble bursts it doesn't take anything else down with it 

What else would go down with it?

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

What else would go down with it?

You never know, these things cause ripples 

[row_33]

my IT friends who don't like Bitcoin are calling it the same as selling off old baseball cards

 

i suggested that might be extreme and they repeated it

 

[BillsFan4]

Any suggestions on what processor and graphics card to buy for GPU and CPU mining? 

 

Is intel better, or AMD (processors)? 

 

What about graphics cards?

 

Any suggestions on which cryptocurrencies to mine? 

 

 

 

 

Also, what type of price range are bitcoin mining rigs that'll make bitcoin mining worthwhile and not just a waste of electricity? 

 

Would an antminer s7 (just over 4TH/s) be worth it? Or S9?

If so, any idea of how much use I would get out of it before it was too outdated?

 

Im thinking GPU and CPU mining would probably be a better place for me to start... 

 

Im pretty new to all of this. Trying to learn. Sorry for so many questions. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

North Korea is hacking bitcoin exchanges as currency value soars, expert says

As bitcoin’s value continues to surge, North Korean hackers are taking advantage by 

targeting exchanges to gain financial profit

[Foxx]

5 hours ago, wnysteel said:

i wonder what effect the new futures market will have on btc.

lol. the circuit breakers kicked in twice and trading was halted pretty much out of the gate.

 

 

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

I just hope when this bubble bursts it doesn't take anything else down with it 

bitcoin isn't a bubble, it is the pin.

 

 

52 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

Any suggestions on what processor and graphics card to buy for GPU and CPU mining? 

 

Is intel better, or AMD (processors)? 

 

What about graphics cards?

 

Any suggestions on which cryptocurrencies to mine? 

 

 

 

 

Also, what type of price range are bitcoin mining rigs that'll make bitcoin mining worthwhile and not just a waste of electricity? 

 

Would an antminer s7 (just over 4TH/s) be worth it? Or S9?

If so, any idea of how much use I would get out of it before it was too outdated?

 

Im thinking GPU and CPU mining would probably be a better place for me to start... 

 

Im pretty new to all of this. Trying to learn. Sorry for so many questions. 

if you desire to mine Bitcoin, GPU and/or CPU mining isn't really going to net you much. in fact unleass you have free electricity, it will cost you money not to mention the investment costs. the Difficulty is so high with all the hashing power online, the only way to mine Btc is with ASICs.

 

yes an S7 will turn a profit. S9s are the much better way to go. they have anywhere from a 13TH/s to 14 TH/s rate of hashing power. if you buy them on the aftermarket you will pay a premium over the retail price from the distributor.

 

 

On 12/10/2017 at 9:22 AM, PolishDave said:

 

Adoption here in America will continue to be very slow (my opinion).

 

Americans aren't seeing it as a need that they want filled.     That is why I think it will take something like rampant inflation to push people to use it.    High inflation would create the "need" that Americans would want.    Without a need, there is no real incentive to use any crypto compared to the dollar - unless you are trying to hide transactions from Uncle Sam and/or law enforcement.

 

I can't see what other event is going to spark people to really want to use it.    Can you?

two events really that will cause mass adoption. hyperinflation in the USD (which it can be argued convincinly that that is occuring now) and out outright rejection of the USD by foriegn countries. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Foxx

[BillsFan4]

32 minutes ago, Foxx said:

lol. the circuit breakers kicked in twice and trading was halted pretty much out of the gate.

 

 

bitcoin isn't a bubble, it is the pin.

 

 

if you desire to mine Bitcoin, GPU and/or CPU mining isn't really going to net you much. in fact unleass you have free electricity, it will cost you money not to mention the investment costs. the Difficulty is so high with all the hashing power online, the only way to mine Btc is with ASICs.

 

yes an S7 will turn a profit. S9s are the much better way to go. they have anywhere from a 13TH/s to 14 TH/s rate of hashing power. if you buy them on the aftermarket you will pay a premium over the retail price from the distributor.

 

 

two events really that will cause mass adoption. hyperinflation in the USD (which it can be argued convincinly that that is occuring now) and out outright rejection of the USD by foriegn countries. 

 

I was talking about GPU and CPU mining of other cryptocurrencies, like monero, eth, sumo, etc etc.  So I could mine one type with the graphics card and another with the processor. (I'm looking for a new desktop computer anyway...) 

Id like to mine a few diff. types in case another one skyrockets like btc. 

 

 

If if I did buy an antminer S9, how long do you think it would be before it was too outdated to be worth mining with? 

Can you then use it to mine other currencies? Or is it only good for bitcoin mining? 

Edited December 11, 2017 by BillsFan4

[BuffaloBill]

Riot Blockchain is up big today.  They have positioned themselves as a bitcoin play.  I suppose there are a million ways to interpret this.  To me, it’s just another indication of how frothy and bubble’ish the bitcoin phenomena has become.

[Happy]

5 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

What else would go down with it?

Individual equities with exposure to cryptocurrency could see some losses.

Here is a good link to see how to gain (or avoid) bitcoin exposure in a traditional brokerage account: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4102411-gain-bitcoin-exposure-inside-traditional-brokerage-account 

There are other names, such as CRC, I believe with an exposure to crypto; it has rocketed up the past 3 months.

[Foxx]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I was talking about GPU and CPU mining of other cryptocurrencies, like monero, eth, sumo, etc etc.  So I could mine one type with the graphics card and another with the processor. (I'm looking for a new desktop computer anyway...) 

Id like to mine a few diff. types in case another one skyrockets like btc. 

 

 

If if I did buy an antminer S9, how long do you think it would be before it was too outdated to be worth mining with? 

Can you then use it to mine other currencies? Or is it only good for bitcoin mining? 

actually you were talking about CPU, GPU and ASIC mining.

 

let's see if we cant cover all three here. 

 

ASICs mine algorithims not coins, specifically. the 3 algos that ASICs mine are SHA-256, Scrypt and X-11. algos that are ASIC resistant (GPU and CPU mining) include, Ethash, Groestl, X11Gost, CryptoNight, Eqihash, LYRA2 REv2, NEOScrypt, LBRY, Blake (2b), Blake (14r), Pascal and Skunkhash.

 

Monero is Cryptonight, Ethereum is Ethash. i don't know what Sumo is off hand (never heard of it actually). building a GPU rig can be quite costly as a good graphics card is going to cost you. right now if you want to mine ETH, the  AMD Radeon R9 295X2 is probably the top of the line and you will pay around $1200/$1500 if you can find one, for 46 MH/s to 57.6 MH/s. of course you will still need a CPU and cables which can add another $400. the problem with mining ETH is that it is soon going to a PoS algo when Casper finally gets implemented sometime in the new year so your ROI may never get realized. you would need to mine another Ethash coin, such as Ethereum Classic (ETC) to continue to get a ROI.  of course, serious miners run multiple cards so these rigs can run into some serious numbers if your not careful. 

 

there are cheaper cards out there such as the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060/1070 of which you will pay around $500 per card for roughly,  27MH/s to 36MH/s.

 

if your serious, i suggest you YouTube it and see what is going on out in the wilds as the visuals will do much more for you than i can by typing and trying to describe things for you.

 

an S9 will mine the SHA-256 algorithim there are a good number of coins that run on that algo. i can't tell you when the S11 will come out, however i do not think they are anywhere near that as yet though. the nm16 chip is still state of he art currently though the race is on for 10 and 7 nm chips.

 

dinnertime here. if you have more questions i can try and answer them. 

[PolishDave]

2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said:

 

I was talking about GPU and CPU mining of other cryptocurrencies, like monero, eth, sumo, etc etc.  So I could mine one type with the graphics card and another with the processor. (I'm looking for a new desktop computer anyway...) 

Id like to mine a few diff. types in case another one skyrockets like btc. 

 

If you want to keep it simple, you can buy an Nvidia based GTX 1080 and make about $3 per day through a simple program like Winminer.

 

A GTX 1080 costs a minimum of $500 right now.  Get a good brand name.   And look at the reviews to see if the card runs cool.    Typically the cards with 2 or more cooling fans on them are better over the long run than cards with only one fan.    The single fan cards often times run too hot and shorten the life of the card when you are mining with it 24 x 7.

 

If you want to make $1 or more per day with your CPU, then you are going to have to get a really powerful one like an A MD Ryzen 7 series ($300 and up) or an Intel Core I 7 pushing 4.0Ghz  (also over $300).    The more cores the better.   The more cache the better.   The higher frequency the better.

 

AMD is better bang for the buck strictly for mining purposes. 

 

Your typical off the shelf Dell or HP computer isn't going to earn much at all mining cryptos.   (Probably under $1 per day)  You really need the beefy video card.   The minimum card I would recommend is the GTX 1060 6GB which can be purchased at NewEgg for $260 per card.   Those cards will earn about $1.50 per day at today's rates with a simple program like Winminer.   You can earn more if you want to meddle a lot hand selecting what coin to mine and joining a different pool.    A program like Winminer is really easy and hands free if you don't want the headache. It will earn you about 80% or more of what you could possibly earn if you tinker enough.

 

 The ROI is slow for computer based rigs compared to ASICs.   At best you might piece a rig together that you can break even with in about 100 days if the prices stay high or go higher.   If the prices drop - it would take longer.    If you just throw something together willy-nilly you can spend thousands of dollars and have a rig that takes years to break even at today's high rates.

 

Video card prices are sky high right now because of cryptocurrency mining.   They will likely remain high unless the prices of coins plummet for some reason for an extended period.   I think that is unlikely, so the prices of high end video cards are probably going to stay very high for a while.  (opinion)

Edited December 11, 2017 by PolishDave