C.Biscuit97 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I am looking at it currently and what to expect for the 2017 season moving forward. I think it is close but I would take Tyrod over Newton for a few reasons: (1) Newton has been beaten up physically the last several years (plus had the car accident) and I believe it is starting to take a toll on him and his play. Newton has not developed as a passer enough where he can rely mostly on his arm. He still needs to be a threat on the ground and I just see his body beginning to break down. His running style was never to avoid hits but run thru tacklers and you don't get a lot of longevity in the style of play. Because Tyrod has not played as much and because his style of running is more elusive (avoids more big collisions) he has more juice left in the tank. (2) I think Tyrod is a better leader and teammate. Newton may have matured some but on the scale of attitude he is much more like Cutler than a Peyton Manning. (3) Work ethic goes to Tyrod as well which may be part of being a better teammate but I also believe it allows Tyrod to become a better player. I believe Newton has more interests outside of football and I don't see the same level of commitment to get better. Overall, I believe we have seen the best of Cam Newton and he is a declining player where as I believe Tyrod can get better, especially in an offensive scheme that suits his abilities. As for Rivers, it is similar. If the Bills trade for Rivers today we do not receive the 2007 version of him. We get present day Rivers who can still put up big numbers from time to time but so did Drew Bledsoe near the end of his career. Rivers has zero mobility and must have great protection to have team success. He is another player in decline who is close to retirement. He is no longer giving consistent performances and is prone to turning over the football (I believe only Ryan Fitzpatrick had more turnovers than Rivers last year). Everyone says that it is a QB driven league and the Tyrod haters constantly blame him for his 15-14 record the past 2 years. When does Rivers share some of the blame for his 9-23 record the past 2 years? Check your calendar again. It's 4/7 not 4/1. Cam Newton is what Tyrod wants to be when he grows up.
Iron Maiden Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I am looking at it currently and what to expect for the 2017 season moving forward. I think it is close but I would take Tyrod over Newton for a few reasons: (1) Newton has been beaten up physically the last several years (plus had the car accident) and I believe it is starting to take a toll on him and his play. Newton has not developed as a passer enough where he can rely mostly on his arm. He still needs to be a threat on the ground and I just see his body beginning to break down. His running style was never to avoid hits but run thru tacklers and you don't get a lot of longevity in the style of play. Because Tyrod has not played as much and because his style of running is more elusive (avoids more big collisions) he has more juice left in the tank. (2) I think Tyrod is a better leader and teammate. Newton may have matured some but on the scale of attitude he is much more like Cutler than a Peyton Manning. (3) Work ethic goes to Tyrod as well which may be part of being a better teammate but I also believe it allows Tyrod to become a better player. I believe Newton has more interests outside of football and I don't see the same level of commitment to get better. Overall, I believe we have seen the best of Cam Newton and he is a declining player where as I believe Tyrod can get better, especially in an offensive scheme that suits his abilities. As for Rivers, it is similar. If the Bills trade for Rivers today we do not receive the 2007 version of him. We get present day Rivers who can still put up big numbers from time to time but so did Drew Bledsoe near the end of his career. Rivers has zero mobility and must have great protection to have team success. He is another player in decline who is close to retirement. He is no longer giving consistent performances and is prone to turning over the football (I believe only Ryan Fitzpatrick had more turnovers than Rivers last year). Everyone says that it is a QB driven league and the Tyrod haters constantly blame him for his 15-14 record the past 2 years. When does Rivers share some of the blame for his 9-23 record the past 2 years? 1) The same can be said with TT and he has a much smaller frame.....if Vegas had odds on who's most likely to get hurt, I'd say TT would be a better bet than Newton.... 2) We have no idea regarding the level of commitment that Newton has....pure speculation. Newton is a better passer, has better vision ( due to his size ) and has proven he can win big games...If the Panthers offered us Newton straight up for TT, the Bills would jump on that in a second...he is still young...no idea how you can say he's declining...he was in the SB the year before last.... As far as Rivers, I would take him over TT as well without hesitations...he probably has 2-3 years left and he's a better and more complete QB overall........As I said, I like TT because he's our best option right now...but both Newton and Rivers would give us a better chance for the next 2-3 years...IMO of course......
racketmaster Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Check your calendar again. It's 4/7 not 4/1. Cam Newton is what Tyrod wants to be when he grows up. I know what day it is and I also know that I am working on the premise that I get present day cam newton and not the one from his mvp season in 2015. He was not very good last year and he has taken a pounding since he came in the league. 1) The same can be said with TT and he has a much smaller frame.....if Vegas had odds on who's most likely to get hurt, I'd say TT would be a better bet than Newton.... 2) We have no idea regarding the level of commitment that Newton has....pure speculation. Newton is a better passer, has better vision ( due to his size ) and has proven he can win big games...If the Panthers offered us Newton straight up for TT, the Bills would jump on that in a second...he is still young...no idea how you can say he's declining...he was in the SB the year before last.... As far as Rivers, I would take him over TT as well without hesitations...he probably has 2-3 years left and he's a better and more complete QB overall........As I said, I like TT because he's our best option right now...but both Newton and Rivers would give us a better chance for the next 2-3 years...IMO of course...... I disagree with points 1 and 2. Newton is starting to become like Big Ben. Tyrod has only missed 2 games due to injury as a result of an illegal tackle. I am not in the locker room in Carolina but I do read and follow Newton and the Panthers. This has been widely reported and has never been a question with Tyrod. And there are plenty of stats like qbr, turnover rate and passer rating that show Tyrod to be a better bet moving forward over the next 2-3 years.
Iron Maiden Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I know what day it is and I also know that I am working on the premise that I get present day cam newton and not the one from his mvp season in 2015. He was not very good last year and he has taken a pounding since he came in the league. I disagree with points 1 and 2. Newton is starting to become like Big Ben. Tyrod has only missed 2 games due to injury as a result of an illegal tackle. I am not in the locker room in Carolina but I do read and follow Newton and the Panthers. This has been widely reported and has never been a question with Tyrod. And there are plenty of stats like qbr, turnover rate and passer rating that show Tyrod to be a better bet moving forward over the next 2-3 years. I can't imagine a scenario where TT brings us to the SB or where he wins the MVP....2 things Newton has done......in my book, Newton > TT....and it's not really close either....I truly believe that when it's all said and done, Newton's career will overshadow TT's by quite a margin.....they are both 27 and already, Cam has done way more than TT.....
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I know what day it is and I also know that I am working on the premise that I get present day cam newton and not the one from his mvp season in 2015. He was not very good last year and he has taken a pounding since he came in the league. I disagree with points 1 and 2. Newton is starting to become like Big Ben. Tyrod has only missed 2 games due to injury as a result of an illegal tackle. I am not in the locker room in Carolina but I do read and follow Newton and the Panthers. This has been widely reported and has never been a question with Tyrod. And there are plenty of stats like qbr, turnover rate and passer rating that show Tyrod to be a better bet moving forward over the next 2-3 years. I'm not even sure Tyrod will be a starter in a few years. I'd love for him to prove me wrong and be our guy, but I just don't see it. And Cam carried Auburn to a National Championship, won a Heisman, took a team with Ted Ginn as their #1 wr to the SB, and won the MVP. He has took insane headshots that the NFL should be monitoring closely this year. And he's the same age as Tyrod. I love the Bills but come on. But if the Panthers think similarly to you, I say we offer them a trade.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 But if the Panthers think similarly to you, I say we offer them a trade.Tyrod and two 1st rounders, maybe.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) you're no low life refugee. you're now a member tbd. I was just suggesting to leave the board behind is all. so yes, I believe you can put it/them to bed. ...you're the boss.... .....I'll put it to bed as in DDAG, dead dead and gone......it was a bit irritating coming over here and seeing multiple references to "BBMB refugees" and all of the negativity....ALL sites have their share of PG-13 gang members whose parents don't know they're posting during homework time.....this is YEAR 55 for me as a loyal soldier and I no longer do homework..... Edited April 7, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Tyrod and two 1st rounders, maybe. Don't forget to throw in some extra comp picks!!
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 ...you're the boss.... .....I'll put it to bed as in DDAG, dead dead and gone......it was a bit irritating coming over here and seeing multiple references to "BBMB refugees" and all of the negativity....ALL sites have their share of PG-13 gang members whose parents don't know they're posting during homework time.....this is YEAR 55 for me as a loyal soldier and I no longer do homework..... right on man... your support of 55 years is as long as I have been on this earth, so far...
racketmaster Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I can't imagine a scenario where TT brings us to the SB or where he wins the MVP....2 things Newton has done......in my book, Newton > TT....and it's not really close either....I truly believe that when it's all said and done, Newton's career will overshadow TT's by quite a margin.....they are both 27 and already, Cam has done way more than TT..... I agree that Cam and certainly Rivers will have had the more accomplished career when it is all said and done. However, what they both have done in the past does not matter much for 2017 and beyond. Look at Peyton Manning in 2015. This is an extreme example and I do not expect anywhere near the fall off in production for Rivers and Cam this year but the 2015 version of Manning was completely different than the 2013 and 2014 Manning. To me it is clear that Rivers is near the end while Tyrod is in his prime. All I am saying is that Tyrod in his prime is a slightly better overall QB than Rivers at the tail end of his career. That does not mean Tyrod will be thought of more highly as a QB than Rivers when looking back at their careers. Same goes for Cam although he is much younger and I am not as certain that he cannot evolve more into a passer. My feeling on Cam is that he has been a tremendous natural athlete, basically a physical freak of nature. This allowed him to dominate in college and be successful in the NFL. He had some solid seasons and a great season in 2015. Along the way, Cam has taken a tremendous pounding. It takes a toll on anyone and I just see Cam becoming more of a reluctant runner as well as less of an athletic freak. He struggled some in 2016 as he was taking big hits. Cam has never been known as a grinder and I believe that is what he would need to do to become a better passer in order to make up for his diminished running skills. This will happen with Tyrod as well but because he rode the bench for 4 years and his style of running is much different (more elusive rather than a power runner), he has more left in the tank as a runner. Probably because of his size, Tyrod has been overlooked and has had to be more of a grinder. This mentality will better serve him as he tries to rely more on his passing. Plus, we have likely not seen the best of Tyrod as a passer. I believe the Dennison system will benefit Tyrod as will having some healthy receiving options.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Don't forget to throw in some extra comp picks!! Kim doesn't consider comp picks when she decides which person in the room to listen to, so that is not an option, Trader Jeff.
jeffismagic Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Kim doesn't consider comp picks when she decides which person in the room to listen to, so that is not an option, Trader Jeff. You cracked the code. Congrats.
FireChan Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 I agree that Cam and certainly Rivers will have had the more accomplished career when it is all said and done. However, what they both have done in the past does not matter much for 2017 and beyond. Look at Peyton Manning in 2015. This is an extreme example and I do not expect anywhere near the fall off in production for Rivers and Cam this year but the 2015 version of Manning was completely different than the 2013 and 2014 Manning. To me it is clear that Rivers is near the end while Tyrod is in his prime. All I am saying is that Tyrod in his prime is a slightly better overall QB than Rivers at the tail end of his career. That does not mean Tyrod will be thought of more highly as a QB than Rivers when looking back at their careers. Same goes for Cam although he is much younger and I am not as certain that he cannot evolve more into a passer. My feeling on Cam is that he has been a tremendous natural athlete, basically a physical freak of nature. This allowed him to dominate in college and be successful in the NFL. He had some solid seasons and a great season in 2015. Along the way, Cam has taken a tremendous pounding. It takes a toll on anyone and I just see Cam becoming more of a reluctant runner as well as less of an athletic freak. He struggled some in 2016 as he was taking big hits. Cam has never been known as a grinder and I believe that is what he would need to do to become a better passer in order to make up for his diminished running skills. This will happen with Tyrod as well but because he rode the bench for 4 years and his style of running is much different (more elusive rather than a power runner), he has more left in the tank as a runner. Probably because of his size, Tyrod has been overlooked and has had to be more of a grinder. This mentality will better serve him as he tries to rely more on his passing. Plus, we have likely not seen the best of Tyrod as a passer. I believe the Dennison system will benefit Tyrod as will having some healthy receiving options. I don't know man. I think there's a much better chance Cam returns to the form that he's played at after one down year than a QB to do something that he's never done before.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 right on man... your support of 55 years is as long as I have been on this earth, so far... ...sadly, I'm "older than dirt"....and feel it, but a good glass of Bourbon sure beats drinking WD-40 daily....cheers bro.....
Gunsgoodtime Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 Good luck NRC, as a short guy myself, I really respected how hard he played and the great plays he had for us. Nothing but the best of luck for his future from me. Wish we would have kept him honestly, we could use him right now
transplantbillsfan Posted April 7, 2017 Posted April 7, 2017 1) The same can be said with TT and he has a much smaller frame.....if Vegas had odds on who's most likely to get hurt, I'd say TT would be a better bet than Newton..... Actually I think Newton would be more likely to get those odds. Newton seeks contact all the time while Taylor is elusive and evades it. I don't care how big Newton is, he can't keep taking hits the way he has been for the start of his career and expect to last another 10 years.
MPT Posted April 8, 2017 Posted April 8, 2017 Well-said. Imagine if Luck had Sammy to throw to. It could possibly develop into the best QB/WR tandem in the league. Imagine if Tyrod had Sammy to throw to. Wouldn't be the best QB/WR tandem in the league, but it would still be nice.
Saxum Posted April 8, 2017 Author Posted April 8, 2017 ...so then I guess all of the inferences about lowly BBMB refugee infiltrators to this site can now FINALLY be put to bed right?.....sure I posted there but don't find the need to subscribe to being relegated to a low life refugee here.....agree or disagree....could care less............. Nope. There are still RJ-Flutie wars on this site. Remarks on BBMB posters will probably last a long, long time.
boyst Posted April 8, 2017 Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) Cam newton @ 16 #reality. Edited April 8, 2017 by Boyst62
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