SinceThe70s Posted August 4, 2023 Posted August 4, 2023 3 hours ago, Another Fan said: @ExWNYer @Gugny @SinceThe70s Wow. Just an epic suck job by this team. Getting swept by one of the record wise worst teams in major league history. In this order walk off balk, 4-0, and 9-2. I know we have an owner now willing to spend moolah and eat it if necessary but I've lost all faith in him for the time being. Getting swept three by a bad team after the team got gutted should have nothing to do with your faith in the owner. If you believe Cohen shouldn't have gutted the team I can respect that. But I'd be interested in what you think they should and shouldn't have done. By Tuesday morning I thought the best course of action was to hold onto Verlander - and I'm still not sure that moving on from him was the best move, but I appreciate the boldness AND the fact that Cohen used his financial might to try to improve the team by spending to build the farm system. AFAIK that's unprecedented. Cohen's stated strategy is to build a pipeline of talent AND win a WS within (I think) 3-5 years. He tried to use his financial might to win the WS through free agency and it failed miserably the first few years so the 3-5 might not work out. Instead of doubling down, he shifted his resources to the farm system this past week. Folks are getting their panties in a wad over next year, but I still expect Cohen to spend this off-season and I expect they will field a competitive team next season. Let's not forget that we have Diaz coming back, a decent core (Alonso, McNeil, Lindor, Nimmo) and promising young talent (Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Vientos). Starting pitching for next year will need to be addressed and the bullpen is pretty much a crapshoot for every team. 19 minutes ago, Gugny said: This Mets season will be talked about for decades. Horrible. A horrible season for sure, although to be honest in many ways I consider last season worse. But that's useless hindsight. How do you feel about the moves they made and prospects for next year and beyond?
Gugny Posted August 4, 2023 Posted August 4, 2023 30 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: Getting swept three by a bad team after the team got gutted should have nothing to do with your faith in the owner. If you believe Cohen shouldn't have gutted the team I can respect that. But I'd be interested in what you think they should and shouldn't have done. By Tuesday morning I thought the best course of action was to hold onto Verlander - and I'm still not sure that moving on from him was the best move, but I appreciate the boldness AND the fact that Cohen used his financial might to try to improve the team by spending to build the farm system. AFAIK that's unprecedented. Cohen's stated strategy is to build a pipeline of talent AND win a WS within (I think) 3-5 years. He tried to use his financial might to win the WS through free agency and it failed miserably the first few years so the 3-5 might not work out. Instead of doubling down, he shifted his resources to the farm system this past week. Folks are getting their panties in a wad over next year, but I still expect Cohen to spend this off-season and I expect they will field a competitive team next season. Let's not forget that we have Diaz coming back, a decent core (Alonso, McNeil, Lindor, Nimmo) and promising young talent (Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Vientos). Starting pitching for next year will need to be addressed and the bullpen is pretty much a crapshoot for every team. A horrible season for sure, although to be honest in many ways I consider last season worse. But that's useless hindsight. How do you feel about the moves they made and prospects for next year and beyond? I wanted them to offload Scherzer and Verlander, at the very least. I grew to like Canha and Pham, but those were also excellent trades, IMO. I think this mini fire sale is the best we’ve seen of Eppler. Two things I don’t want this off-season: signing free agents who are past their prime or on their late 30s/early 40s. And if they’re gonna replace Buck, I do not want a rookie manager. The prospects look great on paper, but they could also be trade bait at some point. Either way, building the farm is never a bad idea and I’ve always felt that way. The Yankees dynasty of the 90s/early 2000s was almost exclusively because of two things: they had a solid farm and they hired the right manager in Torre. The core of that dynasty was homegrown. Then they did a great job getting FAs who fit in, like O’Neill and Martinez, Boggs, Knoblauch, etc. I think the Mets have some good young players and even younger players in the pipeline now. One young guy who concerns me is Baty. I feel like he’s Ike Davis all over again. Or Conforto. Shoddy defense and his batting average is atrocious. I’ll be interested to see what they do about 3B. We’ve really never replaced Wright. Just like catcher. We haven’t replaced Piazza, although Alvarez looks like he’s the guy. I know the Mets will field a great team next year. I have no concerns about Cohen and I’m fine with rolling with Eppler after his strong trade deadline showing. If they bring Buck back, I’ll be okay with it. If they replace him with a proven manager .. one who has led teams deep into the playoffs - then I will also be happy. Bottom line to me is that they need to spend their money wisely. On guys who are not old, guys who are not injury prone and guys who can handle the pressures of playing in New York. Overall, I am very optimistic. #LFGM
SinceThe70s Posted August 4, 2023 Posted August 4, 2023 3 minutes ago, Gugny said: I wanted them to offload Scherzer and Verlander, at the very least. I grew to like Canha and Pham, but those were also excellent trades, IMO. I think this mini fire sale is the best we’ve seen of Eppler. Two things I don’t want this off-season: signing free agents who are past their prime or on their late 30s/early 40s. And if they’re gonna replace Buck, I do not want a rookie manager. The prospects look great on paper, but they could also be trade bait at some point. Either way, building the farm is never a bad idea and I’ve always felt that way. The Yankees dynasty of the 90s/early 2000s was almost exclusively because of two things: they had a solid farm and they hired the right manager in Torre. The core of that dynasty was homegrown. Then they did a great job getting FAs who fit in, like O’Neill and Martinez, Boggs, Knoblauch, etc. I think the Mets have some good young players and even younger players in the pipeline now. One young guy who concerns me is Baty. I feel like he’s Ike Davis all over again. Or Conforto. Shoddy defense and his batting average is atrocious. I’ll be interested to see what they do about 3B. We’ve really never replaced Wright. Just like catcher. We haven’t replaced Piazza, although Alvarez looks like he’s the guy. I know the Mets will field a great team next year. I have no concerns about Cohen and I’m fine with rolling with Eppler after his strong trade deadline showing. If they bring Buck back, I’ll be okay with it. If they replace him with a proven manager .. one who has led teams deep into the playoffs - then I will also be happy. Bottom line to me is that they need to spend their money wisely. On guys who are not old, guys who are not injury prone and guys who can handle the pressures of playing in New York. Overall, I am very optimistic. #LFGM So many great comments. I did not want to go into next year with Scherzer AND Verlander. My assumption was that Verlander was movable and Scherzer wasn't. When Max went first I thought retaining Verlander was the better move and that thought lingers - but I know nothing of the prospects they got so time will tell. As to Buck - I'm not ready to move on either but the shine is off the apple. I'd love to know how much input he has into the day to day lineup. In particular, Lindor and Alonso should be rested more regularly. As to Eppler - my assumption is that by and large he is a puppet doing Cohens bidding. Re-allocating $80 million from two 40-year old pitchers to a bunch of unproven prospects isn't a choice a GM makes alone. Supposedly the Mets are waiting out David Stearns (Brewers). Not sure if that means Eppler would be gone or have a new boss. Only thing I have to ask you about is why you think Torre was a good hire for the Yanks and how that applies to the Mets current situation. Torre was a retread manager with very little success as a manager prior to joining the Yanks. My personal opinion is he is one of the most over-rated managers of all time. I would not want the Mets to hire a guy that has been bouncing around the league with little success if they decide to move on from Buck.
ExWNYer Posted August 4, 2023 Posted August 4, 2023 12 hours ago, Another Fan said: @ExWNYer @Gugny @SinceThe70s Wow. Just an epic suck job by this team. Getting swept by one of the record wise worst teams in major league history. In this order walk off balk, 4-0, and 9-2. I know we have an owner now willing to spend moolah and eat it if necessary but I've lost all faith in him for the time being. 9 hours ago, Gugny said: This Mets season will be talked about for decades. Horrible. @SinceThe70s The sweep at the hands of KC was a giant turd in this sh*t sandwich of a season. They lost 9-2 in the finale but their only two runs came on a two out HR by Lindor in the 9th which broke a 17 2/3 innings scoreless drought against the mighty, mighty Royals. In fairness, Nimmo and Marte weren't in the lineup. Then again, when is Marte ever in the lineup? I was all for selling off Scherzer and Verlander and anybody else on an expiring contract. I'm shocked that they got what they did for Scherzer. Kudos. If they're going to lose, I'd rather watch the young kids play the final two months to see if they may have a future in Flushing rather than watch the most bloated payroll in MLB history go down in flames like the Hindenburg. Where have you gone, Ronny Mauricio? Mets nation turns it's lonely eyes to you...(sorry, old guy reference alert). Some of the 'warm bodies' out there yesterday as fill-ins were reminiscent of bottom-feeding, penny-pinching Met teams of the past...D.J. Stewart...Danny Mendick...Rafael Ortega...Jonathan Arauz...Josh Walker. It was a regular "who's-who" of nameless, faceless, has been/never was mediocrity. Fun times. Now we just need to hope that the high end prospects they got in these trades pan out, especially Acuna's little brother. God knows Uncle Steve paid a record in salary retention in order to get them. It's a big gamble on his part for sure. The #1 thing I want to see this off-season is the hiring of former Brewers President of Baseball Ops, David Stearns, and then have him decide whether or not Bill Eppler-lectic-fit should remain as GM, stay within the organization in another capacity, or get 86'd entirely. My #2 wish is an extension for Pete Alonso. He's having a down year and maybe they can get a bit of a 'hometown discount' on him. He is on pace to own every Mets offensive record, if he finishes his career with the club. If he's not in the plans, go get a haul for the #1 HR hitter in MLB over the last four seasons. My #3 wish is to build this team by acquiring younger players, specifically pitchers, who can grow and be part of the core of a championship squad. No more shortcuts with over-aged superstars in the twilight of their careers. Build it and build it right so there are no more of these most 'Metsy' of seasons. The prospects they acquired were a nice start...now go get David Stearns and let him build and finish it for you, Cohen. Have a great weekend, fellas. LFGM 1
Gugny Posted August 4, 2023 Posted August 4, 2023 9 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: So many great comments. I did not want to go into next year with Scherzer AND Verlander. My assumption was that Verlander was movable and Scherzer wasn't. When Max went first I thought retaining Verlander was the better move and that thought lingers - but I know nothing of the prospects they got so time will tell. As to Buck - I'm not ready to move on either but the shine is off the apple. I'd love to know how much input he has into the day to day lineup. In particular, Lindor and Alonso should be rested more regularly. As to Eppler - my assumption is that by and large he is a puppet doing Cohens bidding. Re-allocating $80 million from two 40-year old pitchers to a bunch of unproven prospects isn't a choice a GM makes alone. Supposedly the Mets are waiting out David Stearns (Brewers). Not sure if that means Eppler would be gone or have a new boss. Only thing I have to ask you about is why you think Torre was a good hire for the Yanks and how that applies to the Mets current situation. Torre was a retread manager with very little success as a manager prior to joining the Yanks. My personal opinion is he is one of the most over-rated managers of all time. I would not want the Mets to hire a guy that has been bouncing around the league with little success if they decide to move on from Buck. I think Torre proved to be the right hire at the right time. It’s understandable that anyone would consider Torre to be overrated. My take is that he did what should be expected with such a loaded roster. Credit to Gene Michael and Buck Showalter to spoon feeding him a team that was ready to win. But we’ve seen what happens when a talented roster is led by a less-than-talented manager. Wille Randolph comes to mind. And pisses me off. But it happens across the league every year. I would love to know what the thought process was when Steinbrenner decided to hire Torre. Whatever it was, I think Cohen should follow suit. Cashman made a LOT of great moves/acquisitions during the dynasty. I’m not sure how much Torre was involved in that piece, but they always seemed to get exactly who they needed. As with all sports, there is luck involved. I would not mind seeing the Mets get younger at Manager. I don’t want a pure players manager like Boone (the worst hire possible for the Yankees). But something seems to be amiss with Showalter and I can’t pinpoint it. The lack of discipline we’ve seen this season is mind-boggling. Fair or not, I put that on the manager when it happens as frequently as it has this year. Girardi is my #1 target because he’s a proven winner in New York as a player and a manager. I’m rambling now, so I’ll stop, LOL. 1
SinceThe70s Posted August 4, 2023 Posted August 4, 2023 13 minutes ago, Gugny said: I think Torre proved to be the right hire at the right time. It’s understandable that anyone would consider Torre to be overrated. My take is that he did what should be expected with such a loaded roster. Credit to Gene Michael and Buck Showalter to spoon feeding him a team that was ready to win. But we’ve seen what happens when a talented roster is led by a less-than-talented manager. Wille Randolph comes to mind. And pisses me off. But it happens across the league every year. I would love to know what the thought process was when Steinbrenner decided to hire Torre. Whatever it was, I think Cohen should follow suit. Cashman made a LOT of great moves/acquisitions during the dynasty. I’m not sure how much Torre was involved in that piece, but they always seemed to get exactly who they needed. As with all sports, there is luck involved. I would not mind seeing the Mets get younger at Manager. I don’t want a pure players manager like Boone (the worst hire possible for the Yankees). But something seems to be amiss with Showalter and I can’t pinpoint it. The lack of discipline we’ve seen this season is mind-boggling. Fair or not, I put that on the manager when it happens as frequently as it has this year. Girardi is my #1 target because he’s a proven winner in New York as a player and a manager. I’m rambling now, so I’ll stop, LOL. All fair points. I'm with you on something being amiss with Buck. I'm not advocating for his dismissal yet but I'm trending in that direction.
Another Fan Posted August 4, 2023 Author Posted August 4, 2023 14 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: Getting swept three by a bad team after the team got gutted should have nothing to do with your faith in the owner. If you believe Cohen shouldn't have gutted the team I can respect that. But I'd be interested in what you think they should and shouldn't have done. By Tuesday morning I thought the best course of action was to hold onto Verlander - and I'm still not sure that moving on from him was the best move, but I appreciate the boldness AND the fact that Cohen used his financial might to try to improve the team by spending to build the farm system. AFAIK that's unprecedented. Cohen's stated strategy is to build a pipeline of talent AND win a WS within (I think) 3-5 years. He tried to use his financial might to win the WS through free agency and it failed miserably the first few years so the 3-5 might not work out. Instead of doubling down, he shifted his resources to the farm system this past week. Folks are getting their panties in a wad over next year, but I still expect Cohen to spend this off-season and I expect they will field a competitive team next season. Let's not forget that we have Diaz coming back, a decent core (Alonso, McNeil, Lindor, Nimmo) and promising young talent (Alvarez, Baty, Mauricio, Vientos). Starting pitching for next year will need to be addressed and the bullpen is pretty much a crapshoot for every team. A horrible season for sure, although to be honest in many ways I consider last season worse. But that's useless hindsight. How do you feel about the moves they made and prospects for next year and beyond? I would have held onto Verlander but am all right with the other moves. Tbh though I know nothing about the prospects to have an opinion on them. Cohen initially said he would take 3-5 years to make the team into a winner. These last moves tell me he’s throwing in the towel for this year and well next year. If he wants to start a more youth centered movement I’m okay with that. But have the balls to tell that to the fanbase. With The Wilpons I at least know where they were coming from even if I wasn’t a fan. Same deal with Yankee fans with George. He was out in the open with his feelings. Anywho that’s the angle I was coming from with not trusting him quote
SinceThe70s Posted August 4, 2023 Posted August 4, 2023 39 minutes ago, Another Fan said: I would have held onto Verlander but am all right with the other moves. Tbh though I know nothing about the prospects to have an opinion on them. Cohen initially said he would take 3-5 years to make the team into a winner. These last moves tell me he’s throwing in the towel for this year and well next year. If he wants to start a more youth centered movement I’m okay with that. But have the balls to tell that to the fanbase. With The Wilpons I at least know where they were coming from even if I wasn’t a fan. Same deal with Yankee fans with George. He was out in the open with his feelings. Anywho that’s the angle I was coming from with not trusting him quote I hear ya. I think Cohen has been up front about the plan. His goal was ambitious - win a WS within 3-5 years AND build a strong farm system for sustained success. He used his financial might to try to make the first part happen - and it failed spectacularly starting around August of last year. Obviously he's thrown in the towel this year - and in an unprecedented twist applied his financial might to try to jump start the rebuild of the farm system. But I don't think he's thrown in the towel on next year - although he'll probably take a more measured approach to free agency this off season. I don't expect them to go into next season as favorites to win the WS but I do believe they'll field a competitive team - and if the first half goes well I won't be surprised if next years trade deadline looks a lot different than this years for the Mets. 1
B-Man Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 On 8/3/2023 at 10:15 PM, Gugny said: This Mets season will be talked about for decades. Horrible. I have watched MLB for over sixty years and I don’t know if I have ever seen this The Pirates had the bases loaded against the Mets in a 1-1 game. The Mets pitcher (Hartwig) walked in the run, then hit the batter for run 2 and then a wild pitch for run number 3 brutal. . 1
Gugny Posted August 16, 2023 Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, B-Man said: I have watched MLB for over sixty years and I don’t know if I have ever seen this The Pirates had the bases loaded against the Mets in a 1-1 game. The Mets pitcher (Hartwig) walked in the run, then hit the batter for run 2 and then a wild pitch for run number 3 brutal. . Oh, believe me … I’m watching. Brutal is right. And I would have scored that a passed ball. Edited August 16, 2023 by Gugny
ExWNYer Posted August 21, 2023 Posted August 21, 2023 @Gugny @SinceThe70s @Another Fan Not gonna lie...watching the Skanks season disintegrate before our very eyes as their whiny, entitled, and insufferable fan base chokes on the salt of it's own tears makes this Mets season slightly more tolerable for me. At least the 'Mess' traded their old but viable pieces for some good young prospects with the hopes of rebuilding the farm system with players who have a chance of contributing sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, NY American took the 'Nero approach' as they stood pat at the deadline, fiddled around, and held onto everyone while they and their fans watched the Bronx burn. It's crazy that the Mets are actually closer to the final Wild Card spot (7 games back vs 9 games back) than their crosstown rival. Met fans are far too used to losing and perpetually saying, "We'll get 'em next year!" while the fans of 'The Bronx Bummers' scream and jump off of cliffs because their team might suffer its first losing season since...wait for it...1992. Ironically enough, that was Buck Showalter's first season managing them. Cry me a river. If they never win another game, it will be too soon. F them and their fans. Note: For all the promise and immense talent that Francisco Alvarez brings, he is scuffling miserably at the moment and doesn't look like the same kid who made his debut earlier this year. He will eventually turn it around but he is completely lost at the plate right now. This is exactly why I wanted him in the majors though. He's getting invaluable experience and learning the pitchers...how to handle his own and how to face the opposing teams'...and how to handle the grind of a 162 game schedule. He'll be better for it come Spring Training 2024. We'll get 'em next year, boys! LGM! 1 1
SinceThe70s Posted August 23, 2023 Posted August 23, 2023 On 8/21/2023 at 10:08 AM, ExWNYer said: @Gugny @SinceThe70s @Another Fan Not gonna lie...watching the Skanks season disintegrate before our very eyes as their whiny, entitled, and insufferable fan base chokes on the salt of it's own tears makes this Mets season slightly more tolerable for me. At least the 'Mess' traded their old but viable pieces for some good young prospects with the hopes of rebuilding the farm system with players who have a chance of contributing sooner rather than later. Meanwhile, NY American took the 'Nero approach' as they stood pat at the deadline, fiddled around, and held onto everyone while they and their fans watched the Bronx burn. It's crazy that the Mets are actually closer to the final Wild Card spot (7 games back vs 9 games back) than their crosstown rival. Met fans are far too used to losing and perpetually saying, "We'll get 'em next year!" while the fans of 'The Bronx Bummers' scream and jump off of cliffs because their team might suffer its first losing season since...wait for it...1992. Ironically enough, that was Buck Showalter's first season managing them. Cry me a river. If they never win another game, it will be too soon. F them and their fans. Note: For all the promise and immense talent that Francisco Alvarez brings, he is scuffling miserably at the moment and doesn't look like the same kid who made his debut earlier this year. He will eventually turn it around but he is completely lost at the plate right now. This is exactly why I wanted him in the majors though. He's getting invaluable experience and learning the pitchers...how to handle his own and how to face the opposing teams'...and how to handle the grind of a 162 game schedule. He'll be better for it come Spring Training 2024. We'll get 'em next year, boys! LGM! Watching the Crankees struggle definitely helps. I've been keeping my eye on Rodon cuz I think there was an argument to be made that the Mets should have gone after him instead of Verlander (or Senga or Quintana). Based on early returns I'm glad we steered clear, but that could change. In hindsight it's a good thing the Correa deal fell through. A few random thoughts: Lindor: what a great shortstop. Unfortunately, in my eyes he still has to overcome the rotten stench of his first season at the plate with the Mets - to some extent it reminds me of how Beltran's one caught looking overshadows the rest of his Mets career. It would help if Lindor got his average above .280, doesn't seem like a big ask given his salary. Quintana: he's been as advertised. Too bad he missed the first half, he could've made a difference. Marte: I've been checking milk cartons for his picture. Mets (and Marte) haven't been the same since his injury last year. Pete: there was some smoke recently about clubhouse issues, but I haven't read anything definitive and so far now I'll chalk it up to talking heads stirring the pot. The relief pitchers: who the hell are these guys? Every game it's someone new that I've never heard of. The rebuilt farm system: what I've been wondering about lately is where tis he line drawn between drafting/acquiring exceptional talent vs. developing the talent you have. We've upgraded the talent level down on the farm but we need to convert that into exceptional MLB players. His current slump notwithstanding Alvarez looks like a keeper. I'm much less convinced about Baty or Vientos.
Another Fan Posted August 27, 2023 Author Posted August 27, 2023 @ExWNYer@SinceThe70s. @Gugny I've just been following the box scores of late. Just checking in here with you guys and some thoughts: - While Dan Vogelbach is like the least of the team's issues, I can't help but notice he seems to only hit home runs when the Mets are up big or down big. Dean Palmer was the king of that I thought. A Rod as well I used to joke was always good for hitting home runs with the Yankees when the game was already decided. - Again I think I mentioned I would have still kept Verlander (I have not followed him at all since he left the team though) I am okay with a youth movement. But I guess I'm of the opinion in New York you still have to sort of field or give the appearance of fielding a competitive team with what the tickets costs are for the Mets? I understand you really cant compare the cost of living in Cincinnati or Milwaukee but they are 2 teams now yielding competitive teams where tickets costs are significantly cheaper. I mean I went to a game this year first time since 2015. Just not sure sentiments of season ticket holders shelling out their $$$ -While I was pretty disappointed with Buck overall this year I didnt think he deserved to necessarily be fired. But I am 50/50 on bringing him back. To me more than anything this year the thing that frustrated me the most was the team looking unmotivated/undisciplined/could care less. I have to think a little of that falls on the manager. But I mean to be fair I'm not sure if fiery managers even exist in baseball anymore in 2023? I just dont know enough about other teams besides maybe the Reds and Yankees. And Aaron Boone doesn't exactly strike me as someone who puts much fear in his team. With how baseball is set up these days is analytics/ the number guys the king?
SinceThe70s Posted August 27, 2023 Posted August 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Another Fan said: @ExWNYer@SinceThe70s. @Gugny I've just been following the box scores of late. Just checking in here with you guys and some thoughts: - While Dan Vogelbach is like the least of the team's issues, I can't help but notice he seems to only hit home runs when the Mets are up big or down big. Dean Palmer was the king of that I thought. A Rod as well I used to joke was always good for hitting home runs with the Yankees when the game was already decided. - Again I think I mentioned I would have still kept Verlander (I have not followed him at all since he left the team though) I am okay with a youth movement. But I guess I'm of the opinion in New York you still have to sort of field or give the appearance of fielding a competitive team with what the tickets costs are for the Mets? I understand you really cant compare the cost of living in Cincinnati or Milwaukee but they are 2 teams now yielding competitive teams where tickets costs are significantly cheaper. I mean I went to a game this year first time since 2015. Just not sure sentiments of season ticket holders shelling out their $$$ -While I was pretty disappointed with Buck overall this year I didnt think he deserved to necessarily be fired. But I am 50/50 on bringing him back. To me more than anything this year the thing that frustrated me the most was the team looking unmotivated/undisciplined/could care less. I have to think a little of that falls on the manager. But I mean to be fair I'm not sure if fiery managers even exist in baseball anymore in 2023? I just dont know enough about other teams besides maybe the Reds and Yankees. And Aaron Boone doesn't exactly strike me as someone who puts much fear in his team. With how baseball is set up these days is analytics/ the number guys the king? Vogelsnacks has definitely worn out his welcome. He's not a good enough hitter to be a one-dimensional player. Agreed on Verlander. But a lot has been said about the Mets punting on 2024 and being in position to go for it in 2025. My sense if that they aren't throwing in the towel on 2024 - they just won't be all-in for contracts like they gave to Verlander and almost gave to Correa. I'll be very interested to see how the Ohtani situation plays out this off-season - it got more complicated with his latest injury. Also agree that the shine is off the Showalter apple. The Buck scowl every time a Met got hit last year was cute, but at some point I'd like to see the Mets retaliate. There have also been hints at clubhouse issues, but nothing concrete afaik - but my radar is up and if there's any meat on that bone than Buck would bear some responsibility. 1
Gugny Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 2 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: Vogelsnacks has definitely worn out his welcome. He's not a good enough hitter to be a one-dimensional player. Agreed on Verlander. But a lot has been said about the Mets punting on 2024 and being in position to go for it in 2025. My sense if that they aren't throwing in the towel on 2024 - they just won't be all-in for contracts like they gave to Verlander and almost gave to Correa. I'll be very interested to see how the Ohtani situation plays out this off-season - it got more complicated with his latest injury. Also agree that the shine is off the Showalter apple. The Buck scowl every time a Met got hit last year was cute, but at some point I'd like to see the Mets retaliate. There have also been hints at clubhouse issues, but nothing concrete afaik - but my radar is up and if there's any meat on that bone than Buck would bear some responsibility. I’ve been beating the retaliation drum for years … even before Buck. This dates back to when that pedophile scumbag Clemens hit Piazza on the NY of his strong helmet. Who the f*ck waits a year to retaliate?? I am not one who likes a lot of skirmishes or fights in baseball. But there is a right time. There have been DOZENS of right times in the past two years, alone. There’s a reason the Mets batters get hit so much. It’s because they have a history of turning the other cheek. Among many other things, that is something that needs to change early and often next season.
SinceThe70s Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 8 minutes ago, Gugny said: I’ve been beating the retaliation drum for years … even before Buck. This dates back to when that pedophile scumbag Clemens hit Piazza on the NY of his strong helmet. Who the f*ck waits a year to retaliate?? I am not one who likes a lot of skirmishes or fights in baseball. But there is a right time. There have been DOZENS of right times in the past two years, alone. There’s a reason the Mets batters get hit so much. It’s because they have a history of turning the other cheek. Among many other things, that is something that needs to change early and often next season. I'm a big fan of self-policing. I'm sure I've posted this before but one of the greatest lines ever came from Mets closer Braden Looper after a beanball game when he was asked whether he intentionally hit a batter after a Met had been hit. To paraphrase: Sometimes things happen in baseball. And then sometimes other things happen. Off topic - this site was much better at self-policing when I first stumbled upon it.
Gugny Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: I'm a big fan of self-policing. I'm sure I've posted this before but one of the greatest lines ever came from Mets closer Braden Looper after a beanball game when he was asked whether he intentionally hit a batter after a Met had been hit. To paraphrase: Sometimes things happen in baseball. And then sometimes other things happen. Off topic - this site was much better at self-policing when I first stumbled upon it. I actually think this site is more self-policed than it’s been in years. Hapless was censoring every 5th post, it seemed, at one point. She gave me a couple warnings (and some obnoxious PMs) a month. Before that, Jack would ban me for 10-20 days at a time for nonsense. I haven’t had any of those issues since Hap stepped down. Right now, it’s pretty much just Simon and I think he gives 99% of users a lot of slack. The other 1% are as.sholes who deserve what they get. Just my observation.
SinceThe70s Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 17 minutes ago, Gugny said: I actually think this site is more self-policed than it’s been in years. Hapless was censoring every 5th post, it seemed, at one point. She gave me a couple warnings (and some obnoxious PMs) a month. Before that, Jack would ban me for 10-20 days at a time for nonsense. I haven’t had any of those issues since Hap stepped down. Right now, it’s pretty much just Simon and I think he gives 99% of users a lot of slack. The other 1% are as.sholes who deserve what they get. Just my observation. Appreciate your perspective. I'm a milquetoast poster who has never received a warning so my perspective is from the outside looking in. With that said, the self-policing I was referring to pre-dates the Hapless years afaik
Gugny Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 43 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: Appreciate your perspective. I'm a milquetoast poster who has never received a warning so my perspective is from the outside looking in. With that said, the self-policing I was referring to pre-dates the Hapless years afaik I’ve been active here since about 2010. Had some early run-ins with Beerball around that time, but in hindsight that was all on me. Jack (who is a nice guy), had me in his sights after Beerball stopped modding. After Jack was dethroned, Hapless was nothing short of a f*cking nightmare. Especially after Covid hit. Once in awhile, I’ll post a ill-placed political comment and Simon has simply deleted them and occasionally PMd me to say, “dude, come on,” and leave it at that. No stupid suspensions or warnings. I think this place is at the point where only the egregious a-holes are getting suspended and/or banned.
ExWNYer Posted August 28, 2023 Posted August 28, 2023 5 hours ago, Another Fan said: @ExWNYer@SinceThe70s. @Gugny I've just been following the box scores of late. Just checking in here with you guys and some thoughts: - While Dan Vogelbach is like the least of the team's issues, I can't help but notice he seems to only hit home runs when the Mets are up big or down big. Dean Palmer was the king of that I thought. A Rod as well I used to joke was always good for hitting home runs with the Yankees when the game was already decided. - Again I think I mentioned I would have still kept Verlander (I have not followed him at all since he left the team though) I am okay with a youth movement. But I guess I'm of the opinion in New York you still have to sort of field or give the appearance of fielding a competitive team with what the tickets costs are for the Mets? I understand you really cant compare the cost of living in Cincinnati or Milwaukee but they are 2 teams now yielding competitive teams where tickets costs are significantly cheaper. I mean I went to a game this year first time since 2015. Just not sure sentiments of season ticket holders shelling out their $$$ -While I was pretty disappointed with Buck overall this year I didnt think he deserved to necessarily be fired. But I am 50/50 on bringing him back. To me more than anything this year the thing that frustrated me the most was the team looking unmotivated/undisciplined/could care less. I have to think a little of that falls on the manager. But I mean to be fair I'm not sure if fiery managers even exist in baseball anymore in 2023? I just dont know enough about other teams besides maybe the Reds and Yankees. And Aaron Boone doesn't exactly strike me as someone who puts much fear in his team. With how baseball is set up these days is analytics/ the number guys the king? - Vogelbach: He can't be on this team next year. He just can't. He's a slow, positionless player who can only DH against RHPs. That is the definition of a wasted roster spot. Thanks for the memories, Vogey. Don't let the door hit you on the way out and leave some donuts for your teammates. -Verlander: I know that none of you agree with me...and that's fine...but I'm glad he's gone. Just another in a long line of disappointing, overpaid, underachieving Met free agent acquisitions. I'm sick of 35+ year old past-their-prime acquisitions. 40 year old pitchers should not be the cornerstone/ace of the pitching staff. Your assessment of giving "the appearance of fielding a competitive team" in NYC is one that is perpetuated in large part by the media of the 'Big Apple', IMO. Part of the reason the Mets will likely never have a perpetual winner and robust farm system is the "big city mentality" of half-assing it. Too afraid to tear it down to the studs and build it right so as not to piss off their fans so they try to repair their gunshot wounds with band-aids. Rinse and repeat and here we are 62 years into a franchise that has two World Series titles to its name...the first 54 years ago and the latest 37 years ago. FYI...to be clear, I was not taking a shot at you. I'm just expressing my own frustration at the "you can't do a complete rebuild in NY" mantra. It's a big reason why this franchise is usually in some form of perpetual suck, IMO. Take the short-term hit and do it right. - Buck: The rose is definitely off the bloom in my eyes. I would be okay if they kept him and okay if they fired him. I would not be upset either way. If he is gone, I would relish not having to listen to his mumbling, 'low-talking' indirectly into the microphone style. It's maddening to have to crank up the TV and try to decipher his pressers. Open your mouth and speak clearly...and audibly...in to mic. After all, you are in fugging NY, Buck.
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