row_33 Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Yadiera doesn’t have the bat to get in, HOF needs Bench or Piazza numbers at catcher
SinceThe70s Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 21 minutes ago, row_33 said: Yadiera doesn’t have the bat to get in, HOF needs Bench or Piazza numbers at catcher To my eyes Yadier is Hall-worthy, but I understand your sentiment. I think it's fair to say that the HOF is slanted towards hitting. As much as I love what Piazza brought to the Mets, he was an average catcher at best. Bench is probably the greatest all-around catcher I've seen.
Misterbluesky Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 Happy Easter egg hunting to you folks tomorrow morning.On the flipside..outside of enjoying our family celebrations,let's not forget the majority of post season playing teams get production from their #3 starters.Matz..let's sweep and bring on a very average Phillies team. 2
Gugny Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 44 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: To my eyes Yadier is Hall-worthy, but I understand your sentiment. I think it's fair to say that the HOF is slanted towards hitting. As much as I love what Piazza brought to the Mets, he was an average catcher at best. Bench is probably the greatest all-around catcher I've seen. I don't think Yadi is a HOF guy. All I know is he's the modern day Chipper Jones (Met Killer) and he pisses me off. But ... like Chipper ... I respect the hell out of him. Piazza was definitely average at best as a catcher (still should have been a first ballot HOFer) and I agree that Bench was the best overall.
SinceThe70s Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 42 minutes ago, Gugny said: I don't think Yadi is a HOF guy. All I know is he's the modern day Chipper Jones (Met Killer) and he pisses me off. But ... like Chipper ... I respect the hell out of him. Piazza was definitely average at best as a catcher (still should have been a first ballot HOFer) and I agree that Bench was the best overall. Dude, you're reading my mind WRT Chipper. I freaking hated what that guy did to us. In an odd twist I'm pretty sure that it was Piazza that outed him as Laaaaaarrrrrry! Guy named one of his kids Shea! I hate/love that! I'll stand by my Yadier HOF call. I really think the guy is deserving...and again I'm a tough grader, I could care less about stats. BTW, don't get me started on Piazza not being first ballot.
Bills4everNY Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Gugny said: 2-0 for the first time since 2013. Love the baserunning. Love the manufactured runs. Love the bombs. deGrom doesn't have his best stuff, but muscles through. I like Callaway's style. A lot. Don't sleep on this team. It's way early in the season, but so far I really like what I'm seeing with this Mets team. Hope Blevins gets in the game Sunday.
row_33 Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 4 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: To my eyes Yadier is Hall-worthy, but I understand your sentiment. I think it's fair to say that the HOF is slanted towards hitting. As much as I love what Piazza brought to the Mets, he was an average catcher at best. Bench is probably the greatest all-around catcher I've seen. Yes, hitting the ball is important in baseball when considering the best......
SinceThe70s Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 57 minutes ago, row_33 said: Yes, hitting the ball is important in baseball when considering the best...... LOL...but playing the field isn't?
row_33 Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 5 hours ago, SinceThe70s said: LOL...but playing the field isn't? That’s nice you have determined Molina is a Hall of Famer. Make sure you keep arguing with people for the next 20 years that he should be in.
Gugny Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Bills4everNY said: It's way early in the season, but so far I really like what I'm seeing with this Mets team. Hope Blevins gets in the game Sunday. Today is an exciting game. Going for the sweep. Matz's first start of the season. Great call on hoping to see Blevins. I like (albeit only 2 games) Callaway's pitching management. His experience in CLE is what excited me about him coming to NY. I loved Terry, but managing the pitching staff was his weakness. Let's Go Mets!
SinceThe70s Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 45 minutes ago, row_33 said: That’s nice you have determined Molina is a Hall of Famer. Make sure you keep arguing with people for the next 20 years that he should be in. Sweet comeback. For the record I could care less whether Molina makes the Hall, JMO that he's deserving and I was interested what others thought and enjoy the debate. Have a nice day.
Gugny Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: Sweet comeback. For the record I could care less whether Molina makes the Hall, JMO that he's deserving and I was interested what others thought and enjoy the debate. Have a nice day. In 16 years, Piazza hit 427 HR and had 1335 RBI with a lifetime batting average of .308. Caught stealing % - 23. In 15 years, Molina has hit 127 HR and had 787 RBI with a lifetime batting average of .284. Caught stealing % - 41. For comparison - in 17 years, Bench hit 389 HR and had 1376 RBI with a lifetime batting average of .267. Caught stealing % - 43. So Piazza's offensive numbers were just a tad better than Bench; but his caught stealing percentage was far below Bench's. Molina's offensive numbers make me think the Mets are the only team he can hit against. Those stats are anemic and they will keep him out of the HOF, in my opinion. Although, his defensive stats are nearly as great as Bench's, I don't think the Hall would ever let someone with such a light bat in. Gary Carter (RIP) had, in 19 years, 324 HR and 1225 RBI with a lifetime batting average of .262 and a CS% of 35%. He barely made it in and I, personally, considered him a borderline Hall of Famer. My opinion is that with a batting average under .300, an elite defensive catcher like Molina would need at least 300 HR and 1200 RBI to get into the Hall, and I don't see him achieving either. Edited April 1, 2018 by Gugny 1
SinceThe70s Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 29 minutes ago, Gugny said: In 16 years, Piazza hit 427 HR and had 1335 RBI with a lifetime batting average of .308. Caught stealing % - 23. In 15 years, Molina has hit 127 HR and had 787 RBI with a lifetime batting average of .284. Caught stealing % - 41. For comparison - in 17 years, Bench hit 389 HR and had 1376 RBI with a lifetime batting average of .267. Caught stealing % - 43. So Piazza's offensive numbers were just a tad better than Bench; but his caught stealing percentage was far below Bench's. Molina's offensive numbers make me think the Mets are the only team he can hit against. Those stats are anemic and they will keep him out of the HOF, in my opinion. Although, his defensive stats are nearly as great as Bench's, I don't think the Hall would ever let someone with such a light bat in. Gary Carter (RIP) had, in 19 years, 324 HR and 1225 RBI with a CS% of 35%. He barely made it in. My opinion is that with a batting average under .300, an elite defensive catcher like Molina would need at least 300 HR and 1200 RBI to get into the Hall, and I don't see him achieving either. Good stuff. I'm not a stats guy but I think many people would agree that Piazza was the greatest hitting catcher of all time. For that alone he should've been first ballot. I'm surprised Bench's average was as high as it was. Impressive. Right or wrong, when it comes to the Hall my opinions are more subjective than objective. I never understood why it took so long for Bruce Sutter to make it in and IMO Curt Schilling is deserving. I get that Yadier's hitting stats will probably keep him out, that's why I brought up the topic in the first place. But he's been a great catcher and clutch performer his whole career. Has there been a better catcher the past 10 years? Posey? Mauer? I'm probably forgetting someone. One last note: my usual criterion for the Hall is that if there's any debate then the guy doesn't belong. By that measure Yadier doesn't make it...regardless what I think
Gugny Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 28 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: Good stuff. I'm not a stats guy but I think many people would agree that Piazza was the greatest hitting catcher of all time. For that alone he should've been first ballot. I'm surprised Bench's average was as high as it was. Impressive. Right or wrong, when it comes to the Hall my opinions are more subjective than objective. I never understood why it took so long for Bruce Sutter to make it in and IMO Curt Schilling is deserving. I get that Yadier's hitting stats will probably keep him out, that's why I brought up the topic in the first place. But he's been a great catcher and clutch performer his whole career. Has there been a better catcher the past 10 years? Posey? Mauer? I'm probably forgetting someone. One last note: my usual criterion for the Hall is that if there's any debate then the guy doesn't belong. By that measure Yadier doesn't make it...regardless what I think My criterion for the Hall has always been the same as yours. If you have to think about it for too long, then it's likely the player doesn't belong. Schilling belongs, as much as I think he's a despicable human being. He's not in simply because he's a douchebag, but that's not right. We're taking this thread away from the topic (Mets), but it'll get reigned back in. I've softened my stance on those who used PEDs. I hate that they ruined sacred records (including Bonds breaking the all-time walks record - stealing it from Rickey Henderson, who made drawing a walk a true art form), but the Steroid Era is an era of the game, pure and simple. It can't be ignored. True fans of the game know what these guys did and how it affected the game - which, in one way (McGuire/Sosa battle), it revived baseball. What I do not want is for the HOF to get watered down (Canton is riddled with players who have no business being there) by letting someone like Molina in just because he was (possibly) the best defensive catcher while he was active. It has to be more difficult than that. They have to be more complete players. 1
row_33 Posted April 1, 2018 Posted April 1, 2018 We can string this along for Molina, but let's not be mean to the fan. How about if Molina stays eligible after 5 years on the ballot? that would be an accomplishment for a player that honestly has not been in the attention span of most fans his entire career. Catchers and third baseman are in very short supply in the Hall. Bill Madlock and Graig Nettles are the best also rans at the hot corner and not worthy.
#34fan Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 Sorry Yank-me fans, but the Mets pennant this year. -2018 World series Champions! 1
Misterbluesky Posted April 2, 2018 Posted April 2, 2018 Conforto looks like a starter in DC..this has to be bitter-sweet since Lagares came out of the gates like he fell in love with his stick..he adapts to pitches so well...we are blessed to have him as our 4 in the OF.Lag to RF more often than not..With Bruce putting some time in at first could be a possibility..Wilmer can be our IF security blanket.RO tonight fellas...what does this do to the rotation since the game has been rescheduled for the summer? 11 minutes ago, Gugny said: Happy Harvey Day!!!! #LGM! We are rained out. I should say weathered out?
SinceThe70s Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 3 hours ago, Misterbluesky said: Conforto looks like a starter in DC..this has to be bitter-sweet since Lagares came out of the gates like he fell in love with his stick..he adapts to pitches so well...we are blessed to have him as our 4 in the OF.Lag to RF more often than not..With Bruce putting some time in at first could be a possibility..Wilmer can be our IF security blanket.RO tonight fellas...what does this do to the rotation since the game has been rescheduled for the summer? We are rained out. I should say weathered out? If Lagares is in the game, he's playing CF. I had high hopes for him. Injuries have been a factror, but he just hasn't developed as a hitter and now he faces an uphill battle for playing time. As for the weather, around 6 inches of snow this morning, it was coming down pretty good on my way to work. There were pictures of a snow man that the Mets made a at Citi Field today. I love baseball but would have no problem if they shortened both ends of the season. 1
Misterbluesky Posted April 3, 2018 Posted April 3, 2018 21 minutes ago, SinceThe70s said: If Lagares is in the game, he's playing CF. I had high hopes for him. Injuries have been a factror, but he just hasn't developed as a hitter and now he faces an uphill battle for playing time. As for the weather, around 6 inches of snow this morning, it was coming down pretty good on my way to work. There were pictures of a snow man that the Mets made a at Citi Field today. I love baseball but would have no problem if they shortened both ends of the season. 70's...I know Lag took his share of standing still in Fla..seemed like nearly every game I watched..he was watching..meaning the ball going over the plate.Maybe he was told to let loose and not be so tied up .I liked him in the cards series..
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