GG Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Dude, you don't get it. Single payer will regulate the costs and prices of everything in the medical field. Other countries pay a third of the price to see a doctor, get a surgery or medication. Why do you think that is? You obviously have no !@#$ing clue how reimbursements right now work in medicine. I'm a health administrator genius, we are going to have to downsize when we go to single payer, not increase the workforce. To say reimbursement and administrative costs will go up with single payer shows how little you know about it. And for every dollar you spend on saving in reimbursements you'll spend two on increased compliance costs. Medicare & Medicaid spend a much higher proportion of dollars than the proportion of the population it covers. That is understandable given the risk pool. But it's also the reason you're not going to see your phantom cost savings by obliterating the private insurance market, as you're suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) And for every dollar you spend on saving in reimbursements you'll spend two on increased compliance costs. Medicare & Medicaid spend a much higher proportion of dollars than the proportion of the population it covers. That is understandable given the risk pool. But it's also the reason you're not going to see your phantom cost savings by obliterating the private insurance market, as you're suggesting. I just don't understand why it is so hard for some people to grasp this idea. Increased compliance costs? The government will set prices for everything, prescriptions, equipment and procedures. Hospitals will then be reimbursed for those set prices. In addition to that, they will get less reimbursement back if they don't meet certain quality standards. I understand you might think that will increase compliance costs, but currently reimbursement is a cluster !@#$. There are hundreds of people in finance departments hounding down reimbursements from over 100 different payers (insurance companies). It is a major headache for all hospitals. Big pharma, medical equipment companies, insurance companies, doctors, surgeons, hospitals and everyone associated with healthcare, control what they can charge to maximize their profits. The government finally started cracking down on what hospitals can charge in relation to getting reimbursed from the government, and they have to meet certain quality standards to get full reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid. That is only a small part of the issue. Remember when Mylan jacked the price of an EpiPen up hundreds of dollars for each one? But the same product was being sold in Canada and Europe for less than $50 each? That is just a small example of the robbery that is going on in this country. The executives of these companies make millions a year, and give themselves millions in bonuses. They set the prices, and the rest of the world has realized that isn't fair or sustainable. Regulations that squeeze out small businesses are not cool in my book. But regulating and standardizing the prices and costs in healthcare is the only way to get prices down. Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richstadiumowner Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Two different healthcare threads weren't enough? Or was this thread on socialism bound to come down to healthcare because gatorbait is championing socialized medicine? He's a gubment union grunt with entitlements and a huge ego. What a shock. "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." Edited April 3, 2017 by richstadiumowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 He's a gubment union grunt with entitlements and a huge ego. What a shock. "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." So much ignorance around here it's scary. Remember what I was saying the other day about the average IQ in America. I work for a private hospital and have never had an entitlement in my life. You guys need to step it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I just don't understand why it is so hard for some people to grasp this idea. Increased compliance costs? The government will set prices for everything, prescriptions, equipment and procedures. Thus increasing compliance costs. You have NO idea how much Medicaid compliance costs are, do you? The government doesn't just "set" costs and everyone abides. The overhead - for both the government and provider - is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Thus increasing compliance costs. You have NO idea how much Medicaid compliance costs are, do you? The government doesn't just "set" costs and everyone abides. The overhead - for both the government and provider - is ridiculous. Boo hoo. Companies who make millions of dollars will have to comply and deal with having lower profits. I can't !@#$ing stand how Republicans side with big corporations over the people. Taxes go up and people make less profit off of healthcare. Cry me a river. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richstadiumowner Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) " I work for a private hospital " "Republicans side with big corporations over the people" How do you sleep at night turning dying "people" away at the door of your "big corporation"? Edited April 3, 2017 by richstadiumowner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 " I work for a private hospital " "Republicans side with big corporations over the people" How do you sleep at night turning dying "people" away at the door of your "big corporation"? Haha we send them to the public one down the road. It's a job, how do you put food on the table for your family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Boo hoo. Companies who make millions of dollars will have to comply and deal with having lower profits. I can't !@#$ing stand how Republicans side with big corporations over the people. Taxes go up and people make less profit off of healthcare. Cry me a river. I can't stand how Democrats think that government can fix everything, despite proven history of the opposite behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richstadiumowner Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Haha we send them to the public one down the road. It's a job, Why not "deal with having lower profits" senor death squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 I can't stand how Democrats think that government can fix everything, despite proven history of the opposite behavior. Jesus, posts like this are a joke. Where has anyone lately said the government should intervene on anything besides healthcare? Healthcare is out of control right now. It's the one thing where the government steps in and costs go down. Taxes and waiting times go up. Is it perfect? No, but it's better than what we are doing right now. Even the orange one himself Trump has said everyone in America should have good health care. He actually made it a campaign promise. Why not "deal with having lower profits" senor death squad?That's the problem, no one makes private companies do it. If they did, we would deal with less profit. Why not "deal with having lower profits" senor death squad?We need garbage men too rich, I won't judge. You never answered what you do for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Boo hoo. Companies who make millions of dollars will have to comply and deal with having lower profits. I can't !@#$ing stand how Republicans side with big corporations over the people. Taxes go up and people make less profit off of healthcare. Cry me a river. That's not how it'll work. You really think the government can magically dictate prices, quality, and access, and market forces simply fall in line? You can control two. The third will always be dictated by market forces, one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) Hospitals have to meet quality standards to get full reimbursement from the government. That is the incentive to provide quality care. Agreeing on the standardized prices is going to be the hardest part. It's a radical idea to shake up the market like that, a bunch of you old farts can't even wrap your head around it. My opinion is it will do something to curb the out-of-control healthcare costs. Clearly everyone disagrees, and clearly I don't give a !@#$. Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Hospitals have to meet quality standards to get full reimbursement from the government. That is the incentive to provide quality care. Agreeing on the standardized prices is going to be the hardest part. It's a radical idea to shake up the market like that, a bunch of you old farts can't even wrap your head around it. My opinion is it will do something to curb the out-of-control healthcare costs. Clearly everyone disagrees, and clearly I don't give a !@#$. No, it's that we understand that free markets drive down prices (healthcare in the US is not a free market), and that price fixing always works against the interests of the consumer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 No, it's that we understand that free markets drive down prices (healthcare in the US is not a free market), and that price fixing always works against the interests of the consumer.Health insurance (not Medicaid or Medicare) was a free market before Obamacare. Medical equipment companies have a free market. Prescription companies have a free market. Free markets work in 90% of industries, not healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Health insurance (not Medicaid or Medicare) was a free market before Obamacare. Medical equipment companies have a free market. Prescription companies have a free market. Free markets work in 90% of industries, not healthcare. ... No, no they were not. You don't know what a free market is. Medicine is the most heavily regulated industry in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 That's not how it'll work. You really think the government can magically dictate prices, quality, and access, and market forces simply fall in line? You can control two. The third will always be dictated by market forces, one way or another. Health insurance (not Medicaid or Medicare) was a free market before Obamacare. Medical equipment companies have a free market. Prescription companies have a free market. Free markets work in 90% of industries, not healthcare. As Tom has said you can't significantly lower prices and still give quality healthcare in a timely manner. If you want that stent in now and at a low cost then I'll be right there. If you want it done by someone who knows what he is doing and you still want it on the cheap then I think my cardiologist has an opening on March 20, 2025. Morning or afternoon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) ... No, no they were not. You don't know what a free market is. Medicine is the most heavily regulated industry in the world. Haha okay. Not regulated enough if you ask me. There aren't enough control mechanisms to keep prices down. People shouldn't be making huge profits off of healthcare, get used to more and more people thinking that way. As Tom has said you can't significantly lower prices and still give quality healthcare in a timely manner. If you want that stent in now and at a low cost then I'll be right there. If you want it done by someone who knows what he is doing and you still want it on the cheap then I think my cardiologist has an opening on March 20, 2025. Morning or afternoon? Reaper, everyone here, including me knows it won't be in a timely manner. Numerous people, including me, have said waiting times will go up for average citizens. If hospitals don't keep their quality scores up, they get less reimbursement. Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snafu Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Boo hoo. Companies who make millions of dollars will have to comply and deal with having lower profits. I can't !@#$ing stand how Republicans side with big corporations over the people. Taxes go up and people make less profit off of healthcare. Cry me a river. You don't get how the economy works, do you? Everything you're saying in a thread about the vagaries of socialism points toward you being in favor of a socialist regime. And not only that, you're happy to take from anyone that you think is unworthy of retaining property that they earned or built for themselves. Got it. Well once you get your way, please kick my ass into the gulag, because I'm not going down that road with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorbait Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) You don't get how the economy works, do you? Everything you're saying in a thread about the vagaries of socialism points toward you being in favor of a socialist regime. And not only that, you're happy to take from anyone that you think is unworthy of retaining property that they earned or built for themselves. Got it. Well once you get your way, please kick my ass into the gulag, because I'm not going down that road with you. For !@#$s sake do some reading, I advocate for single payer (government run) healthcare. That is all. Keep the government out of the bedroom and off my guns. It's pathetic how you call people socialists for wanting improvements to a system that the government already has their hands in. Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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