Juice_32 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 I don't give a damn what Terry and Kim say. I guess some of you still believe the media and in Santa and the easter bunny. Buffalo aka WNY, can NOT afford a new stadium, sorry no. Fans in WNY can't afford PSL's and jacked up ticket prices, parking prices etc. Now all of a sudden the NFL dude says its right for the Pegulas to back off working on a new stadium for awhile? Sorry folks am an old realist and right now, in light of THREE Teams moving, I say the plan is to move to Toronto. The NFL wants a team there badly, they can support the new stadium, will pay to get the Bills there and it makes the NFL more money. If you buy this Bull crap of "oh they have the greatest fans, they have history there blah blah blah" I don't know what to tell you. The NFL does not give one S#@! about us the fans, they don't care about the history of Buffalo. They care about money, and if they get a new stadium in a big new market by moving the Bills, the Bills are gonna move no matter what the Pegulas say publicly. No go ahead and rant and whatnot on this thread, it won't matter in the long run if you do or don't. I am just looking at a financial reality with the NFL, and the WNY market. Admitting that you have BBFS is the first step. Take a deep breath and back away from the keyboard.
sir andrew Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Breaking: @Jason Laconfora: Terry Pegula to move Bills to Toronto. Per "very" reliable sources on Bills forums. Well if he said it you know there is absolutely no truth it;) Crap. Beat me to it. I got to start going through the whole thread before posting something.
Koko78 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 i'd guess i'd like to hear why specifically the op doesn't feel wny can support a new stadium, or why the locals can't afford the higher prices that come with it. i know we won't get an answer, but this seems to be the key. Because 17 years!
teef Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 It could happen, but they could also ask for their share of the pot (ownership). Fresh off a purchase, the Pegulas can't be in a rush to hand out shares. i'm not sure if shares of the team would come into play, but i'm sure share of the revenue of the stadium would be factored in. i think if wny gets a new stadium completely funded by private money, i think it would come down to the local's emotional investment, just like it did when terry bought the team. i don't think there would be much of a financial gain to be had, but locals are very particular and protective of the bills. That appears to make sense, so politicians will never go for it. they can't even figure out how to bring uber to the area. That's a myth. WNY is dependent on downstate taxes. In fact didn't Albany just earmark a billion dollars for Buffalo projects? isn't down state dependent on upstate taxes? that's why you always have the select few that want most of ny to separate itself from nyc. Because 17 years! and we don't have a qb!
BillsfanAZ Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 People spend their money on their priorities. People without the means dont go to games now so they wont in the future. People with the means will cut back on other spending if Bills tickets are a priority. Yes people will complain as they do about everything else but in the end tickets are purchased.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 isn't down state dependent on upstate taxes? that's why you always have the select few that want most of ny to separate itself from nyc. Do you know there are crackpots where I live in NH that want the state to be its own country. It's easy to talk crap and get people fired up. It's another when reality smacks you upside the head. Just do the math. How many major corporations, etc are in NYC and how many in WNY. Now who do you think is carrying who?
yungmack Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) What the NFL WANTS and what they'll get may not be the same. The NFL is running out of cities to relocate teams. The Raiders are going to Vegas BUT now that LA has two teams, it's only a matter of time till one, or both will try to move out again, because of lack of support. The NFL WANTS a market in LA BUT LA does not have the demographics to support one, much less two NFL teams. What's left of the LA middle class do not live close to the city. After 5 days of LA traffic, they won't consider another drive to a stadium on Sunday. People living below the middle class don't have the money or the inclination to go to the games, and the elites could care less about anything but themselves. So what does that leave in terms of viable markets? Not very much! Buffalo may not be perfect, but it has worked for a very long time! The NFL is overdue for a Commissioner change, then who knows?. This is a false narrative. First off, LA has always supported good teams. The original Rams were one of the top draws in the nation for decades. The Dodgers continue to draw up to 4 million a year in one of the worst traffic areas, the Lakers, lousy as they are, continue to draw large crowds. Same for the Kings, UCLA, USC. Secondly, the Rams stadium is south of the city, along the 405, and will be served by Metro Rail as well. It's very convenient to the Westside, and to Orange and San Diego counties. As to the disappearance of the middle class, this is a problem in every major city. In LA, this has been driven largely by the massive influx of millions of immigrants, quite a number of them well-to-do, that began with the Iranians after the fall of the Shah. Vast numbers of houses and commercial buildings are purchased sight unseen by Chinese as a way to move money out of China. Add in Thai, Indian, Russian, Armenian, Korean, various Middle Eastern groups, etc., all striving mightily to succeed, and you have the recipe for the sky rocketing prices driving out the middle class. In the late 70s, before this all began, a house in my neighborhood selling for over a $100 grand was considered pricey. Now they routinely sell for over a million. Weirder, they are then often torn down and replaced with massive houses, called "Persian Palaces." And while there is minimal interest in American football, their kids are increasingly playing the game. Long term, I'd think the market for good football in LA is positive. Edited March 28, 2017 by yungmack
teef Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Do you know there are crackpots where I live in NH that want the state to be its own country. It's easy to talk crap and get people fired up. It's another when reality smacks you upside the head. Just do the math. How many major corporations, etc are in NYC and how many in WNY. Now who do you think is carrying who? i'm certainly no expert in this, so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that large cities are wildly expensive to run, and typically can drain a state. that's why ny and cali, (i don't think cali is as bad as it was) are in debt. time and time again we hear that our taxes are high due to the city. i mentioned uber before, and one stipulation to bringing it to wny is that 50 cents of every ride will go right back to the city. i live in monroe county and it's my understanding that we have the second highest, (maybe the highest) tax rate in the state...why? to help fund nyc. edit: i just looked for something to back me up, and if anything i found that upstate get more than they give, so i may be completely wrong on this. is someone know anything, please hook a brother up. Edited March 28, 2017 by teef
Captain_Quint Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 That's a great question, nucci. Can Pegula own BOTH the Bills AND the Sabres if he moves the Bills to Toronto??? Since Toronto already has the Maple Leafs, per NFL bylaws, I believe the answer is YES, he probably will. His primary residence must be within 40,000 fathoms of any professional sports team that he owns. This is for majority ownership ONLY. How many times are we going to lamb-based this guy about moving the team?
Buffalo_Stampede Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Realist. I am actually not pissed at all, in a pretty good mood today actually. It just is what it is. You aren't being a realist saying Pegula may move the team. Edited March 28, 2017 by TheTruthHurts
PromoTheRobot Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 i'm certainly no expert in this, so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that large cities are wildly expensive to run, and typically can drain a state. that's why ny and cali, (i don't think cali is as bad as it was) are in debt. time and time again we hear that our taxes are high due to the city. i mentioned uber before, and one stipulation to bringing it to wny is that 50 cents of every ride will go right back to the city. i live in monroe county and it's my understanding that we have the second highest, (maybe the highest) tax rate in the state...why? to help fund nyc. edit: i just look for something to back me up, and if anything i found that upstate get more than they give, so i may be completely wrong on this. is someone know anything, please hook a brother up. This is from 2011: http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/upstate_ny_grabs_more_than_it.html
BillsFan4 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) I don't give a damn what Terry and Kim say. I guess some of you still believe the media and in Santa and the easter bunny. Buffalo aka WNY, can NOT afford a new stadium, sorry no. Fans in WNY can't afford PSL's and jacked up ticket prices, parking prices etc. Now all of a sudden the NFL dude says its right for the Pegulas to back off working on a new stadium for awhile? Sorry folks am an old realist and right now, in light of THREE Teams moving, I say the plan is to move to Toronto. The NFL wants a team there badly, they can support the new stadium, will pay to get the Bills there and it makes the NFL more money. If you buy this Bull crap of "oh they have the greatest fans, they have history there blah blah blah" I don't know what to tell you. The NFL does not give one S#@! about us the fans, they don't care about the history of Buffalo. They care about money, and if they get a new stadium in a big new market by moving the Bills, the Bills are gonna move no matter what the Pegulas say publicly. No go ahead and rant and whatnot on this thread, it won't matter in the long run if you do or don't. I am just looking at a financial reality with the NFL, and the WNY market. Where do you get that from? What makes you think the NFL badly wants a team in Toronto? It was Russ Brandon and Ralph Wilson who set up the Toronto series, not the NFL. And the NFL had zero problem with the Bills abandoning that series. Even when the Bills played there, it wasn't very successful. I don't see the NFL making any other teams play in Toronto, like they do London and possibly Mexico City. I don't even hear any rumors of games being played in Toronto. So I guess I just don't get why you say "the NFL wants a team there badly". If you have some proof I am overlooking, feel free to share it! Also, you may not care what the Pegula's say, but look at what they are doing - how much the Pegula's have invested in the city of Buffalo. They spent millions upon millions building the HarborCenter and restaurants and a hotel. They just bought another multi million dollar building down there. They bought land around New Era Field and are building a new practice facility there. They've sunk millions into New Era Field already too. The Pegula's have said how they didn't just buy sports teams, they also invested in Buffalo and want to help its resurgence, and they've backed that up with actions. Edited March 28, 2017 by BillsFan4
EersN'Bills Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) You mean like Rochester and Toronto? The Bills have over 9 million people within 2 hours drive. It's not just Buffalo. If you compared regional population the Bills are one of the larger NFL markets. 100% correct. They get a decent number of fans from Syracuse/CNY and the Jamestown/Erie,Pa region too. The only time the Bills don't draw is late in December when they're long out of the playoffs. If they move anywhere, it would be closer to downtown Buffalo given Pegula's other investments there. Edited March 28, 2017 by EersN'Bills
billsfan_34 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 You mean like Rochester and Toronto? The Bills have over 9 million people within 2 hours drive. It's not just Buffalo. If you compared regional population the Bills are one of the larger NFL markets. I knew this- thanks.
dollars 2 donuts Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 @JasonLaCanfora Hearing rumblings that Bills could be moving. Greatest. Post. Today. Well done, PTR. Well done indeed.
Guest NeckBeard Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 i'm certainly no expert in this, so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that large cities are wildly expensive to run, and typically can drain a state. that's why ny and cali, (i don't think cali is as bad as it was) are in debt. time and time again we hear that our taxes are high due to the city. i mentioned uber before, and one stipulation to bringing it to wny is that 50 cents of every ride will go right back to the city. i live in monroe county and it's my understanding that we have the second highest, (maybe the highest) tax rate in the state...why? to help fund nyc. edit: i just looked for something to back me up, and if anything i found that upstate get more than they give, so i may be completely wrong on this. is someone know anything, please hook a brother up. It is myth that the "lower types" (and I say this as a born and bred WNY'er) pay for the likes of the people from NYC. NYC has Wall Street (Buffalo doesn't have that). NYC has massive travel and tourism (WNY has it but not to that level). It's been an enduring theme in WNY that WNY'ers support so-called "welfare" in NYC, but WNY doesn't have the industrial base, and I don't mean just factories, to support that theme. I happen to be partial to WNY, and hopes that it really can smash it in its current resurgence, but to crap on other residents of the same state as being a burden is highly disingenuous. To look at it another way, NYC, CA, TX, and many other large cities (who reside in larger states population-wise) have a higher GNP growth than a vast number of countries in the world, and in that light, people like me have a reason to gravitate towards these cities given their opportunities -- rather than holding fort in WNY, because, you know, if we're all conservatives here (I'm sure we all are), you reward ambition and so forth, oh, and I just happen to be highly ambitious. Yes, there is a higher cost center to run cities in these states, but seriously? Do you think that the force of Wall Street, the strong travel and tourism, and NYC being NYC doesn't trump (no pun intended) a market like WNY -- who is finding its way? I don't believe for a second that WNY is holding NYC together, to be completely frank.
dollars 2 donuts Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 It is myth that the "lower types" (and I say this as a born and bred WNY'er) pay for the likes of the people from NYC. NYC has Wall Street (Buffalo doesn't have that). NYC has massive travel and tourism (WNY has it but not to that level). It's been an enduring theme in WNY that WNY'ers support so-called "welfare" in NYC, but WNY doesn't have the industrial base, and I don't mean just factories, to support that theme. I happen to be partial to WNY, and hopes that it really can smash it in its current resurgence, but to crap on other residents of the same state as being a burden is highly disingenuous. To look at it another way, NYC, CA, TX, and many other large cities (who reside in larger states population-wise) have a higher GNP growth than a vast number of countries in the world, and in that light, people like me have a reason to gravitate towards these cities given their opportunities -- rather than holding fort in WNY, because, you know, if we're all conservatives here (I'm sure we all are), you reward ambition and so forth, oh, and I just happen to be highly ambitious. Yes, there is a higher cost center to run cities in these states, but seriously? Do you think that the force of Wall Street, the strong travel and tourism, and NYC being NYC doesn't trump (no pun intended) a market like WNY -- who is finding its way? I don't believe for a second that WNY is holding NYC together, to be completely frank. Great points and honestly I agree. However, and along with the matters as stated above please let us not leave out our fresh water and hydroelectric power, which other areas don't have, but seemingly it's every other part of the State's (and other States) entitlement to enjoy. Please, please anyone around here feel free to correct me if I am wrong as I may just have a bad memory on something. That said, I thought there was a bill on the ballot a couple of decades ago proposing a water pipeline be built down to the Southern States and that we would pay for part of it. Our compensation? I am not even sure it was mentioned in the Bill or the lead up to it...I just know we weren't involved. I was amazed at the Bill and voted "No" on it...I was more amazed that it almost passed.
long suffering bills fan Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 I don't give a damn what Terry and Kim say. I guess some of you still believe the media and in Santa and the easter bunny. Buffalo aka WNY, can NOT afford a new stadium, sorry no. Fans in WNY can't afford PSL's and jacked up ticket prices, parking prices etc. Now all of a sudden the NFL dude says its right for the Pegulas to back off working on a new stadium for awhile? Sorry folks am an old realist and right now, in light of THREE Teams moving, I say the plan is to move to Toronto. The NFL wants a team there badly, they can support the new stadium, will pay to get the Bills there and it makes the NFL more money. If you buy this Bull crap of "oh they have the greatest fans, they have history there blah blah blah" I don't know what to tell you. The NFL does not give one S#@! about us the fans, they don't care about the history of Buffalo. They care about money, and if they get a new stadium in a big new market by moving the Bills, the Bills are gonna move no matter what the Pegulas say publicly. No go ahead and rant and whatnot on this thread, it won't matter in the long run if you do or don't. I am just looking at a financial reality with the NFL, and the WNY market. Try hitting the snooze button on your alarm. You could use a few more minutes of sleep.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 ....so expect Nefarious Jerry Sullivan to be writing an article soon about the "threat of a move" ........night time style like Modell Moving & Storage................
Recommended Posts