Following AHCA defeat, Trump signals new openness to Dems

[gatorbait]

How has supply and demand worked to lower costs over time in healthcare guys? You guys don't want to acknowledge that healthcare costs have been rising for decades and I have a solution. Whether you like it or not. Single payer and the regulated prices that go along with it will help.

Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait

[DC Tom]

How has supply and demand worked to lower costs over time in healthcare guys? You guys don't want to acknowledge that healthcare costs have been rising for decades and I have a solution. Whether you like it or not. Single payer and the regulated prices that go along with it will help.

[This is an automated response.]

 

You're an idiot.

 

Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.9.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Everyone knows I didn't come on here attacking people. I'm all too happy to push back though.

 

Tasker you still don't get it, and that's okay. Supply and demand does not apply to government run healthcare. Do you !@#$ing understand that? How has your market based model worked so far? Really driving the costs down across the board, am I right? Forget about the ACA, it's a pile of trash. Before that, prices and premiums were going through the roof. That is the main reason Obama tried something like the affordable care act.

 

 

...

 

Apparently I need to go slower for you. That's fine.

 

The law of supply and demand applies to everything. Government commandeering the system does not somehow magically repeal it.

 

There will always be some supply (there's that word) of doctors, R&D, overhead, etc. When you artificially restrict what can be earned for their goods and services, disincentivising the practice of medicine and it's supporting industries, the supply (golly gosh) of providers will decrease.

 

Coupling this with "free" care will increase demand (seeing a pattern here?) for care. But low and behold... where are the doctors? There is no supply to meet the increasing demand. Hence shortages. Hence decreased access.

 

We are already pushing the limits of supply to meet current demand. It is incredibly difficult to find doctors taking on new patients as it is, and that's new patients with quality insurance; massive percentages of doctors won't accept new patients with Medicaid/Medicare because their reimbursement rates don't actually cover the costs of care. Making matters worse, doctors are spending more and more time as businessmen, trying to expand their practices to increase volume to make up for diminishing reimbursements, and spending far less time with patients as a result.

 

This is a tire fire at the moment, and everything you have advocated is a can of gasoline.

 

 

 

In regards to the poor, do you think people scraping pennies from week to week can afford to go to regular check ups at the doctor and dentist? Hell no. Without helping them, they get old, fat and disease riddled. And then have to pay for their care when they go to the ER anyways.

The point, once again, is that these people are poor because they make bad decisions regardless of the fact that they live in the worlds largest economy. They are uneducated because they make bad decisions regardless of the fact that they live in a country with spends more per capita on education than any other country in the world.

 

They won't take care of themselves, or use preventative care because they make bad decisions.

Edited April 3, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[GG]

How has supply and demand worked to lower costs over time in healthcare guys? You guys don't want to acknowledge that healthcare costs have been rising for decades and I have a solution. Whether you like it or not. Single payer and the regulated prices that go along with it will help.

 

Healthcare costs have been rising all over the world for a host of reasons, which you continue to conflate, and a move to a single payer will not stem the rise of those healthcare costs.

 

PS - It's instructive to take a look at California's attempt to "deregulate" its energy industry a decade ago where demand was unregulated but supply was constrained.

Edited April 3, 2017 by GG

[gatorbait]

The demand for equipment and medicines isn't going anywhere, and the supply of those things will be fine. The demand for care will increase waiting times like Ive said before. And yes supply will drop a little bit. If we don't do something premiums will continue to go up and profits will keep soaring because people think what we are doing now is fine. We are the only major advanced nation in the world, who hasn't gone to some form of universal healthcare. Longer waiting times for the poor and average citizens is a downside that a lot of people are willing to take. Rich people can still get private insurance and get in quickly at swanky private facilities.

 

It doesn't bother me if we don't do something to fix it, like I said before, I will be fine. The fire is already blazing right now, gasoline is being thrown on it day by day. Single payer could alleviate a lot of the out of control costs, no matter what you say.

[grinreaper]

I understand your joke, even though surgeries in other countries aren't subpar like you're claiming. I'm more of an Audi guy myself.

I doubt that. This particular joke goes back years and had something to do with a specific poster here.

[GG]

I doubt that. This particular joke goes back years and had something to do with a specific poster here.

 

Shh, don't tell him that. I kind of enjoy his delusion that he knows everything, including the private jokes that he wasn't part of.

[gatorbait]

The joke I was referring to was made earlier by Tasker, where he said people who can't afford a BMW go down the street to buy a jeep. Unrelated I guess. I stand corrected.

[DC Tom]

The joke I was referring to was made earlier by Tasker, where he said people who can't afford a BMW go down the street to buy a jeep. Unrelated I guess. I stand corrected.

[This is an automated response.]

 

 

Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.9.

[gatorbait]

[This is an automated response.]

 

 

Created by DC Tom-bot, beta version 0.9.

Thanks babe. Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait

[TakeYouToTasker]

The demand for equipment and medicines isn't going anywhere, and the supply of those things will be fine.

This is the pinnacle of naivete. You propose to suck profits from an industry, while at the same time expecting supply to not be interrupted? This is absurd, and once again shows you to be less than a novice in both business and the most basic economics.

 

Not only will supply be interrupted domestically, but also globally, as the US bears the costs of supplying the world.

 

 

 

The demand for care will increase waiting times like Ive said before.

It will increase wait times upwards of 1000% in many cases, if we implement anything similar to the UK or Canada.

 

 

 

And yes supply will drop a little bit.

Supply will drop drastically, as reimbursement rates make operating a medical practice untenable current doctors will close their doors; and the best and the brightest will no longer enter medicine, and will take their talents to industries where they can still be rewarded for their hard work and intellect, so there will be no replenishment. So not only will supply dry up, but what remains will be a lower quality, resulting in worse care.

Edited April 3, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[gatorbait]

This is the pinnacle of naivete. You propose to suck profits from an industry, while at the same time expecting supply to not be interrupted? This is absurd, and once again shows you to be less than a novice in both business and the most basic economics.

 

Not only will supply be interrupted domestically, but also globally, as the US bears the costs of supplying the world.

 

It will increase wait times upwards of 1000% in many cases, if we implement anything similar to the UK or Canada.

 

Supply will drop drastically, as reimbursement rates make operating a medical practice untenable current doctors will close their doors; and the best and the brightest will no longer enter medicine, and will take their talents to industries where they can still be rewarded for their hard work and intellect, so there will be no replenishment. So not only will supply dry up, but what remains will be a lower quality, resulting in worse care.

The quality of care right now in America actually sucks when you factor in how much we are paying. I disagree that the supply for medical equipment and medicines is going to go down. The supply drop for patient care and waiting times going up is undeniable. Premiums can keep increasing, quality can stay right around mediocre, and all the poor people can stay unhealthy. It won't bother me at all. Forgive me, other young people, and the rest of the world for actually trying to do something about it, instead of making excuses for why it is so messed up.

[TakeYouToTasker]

The quality of care right now in America actually sucks when you factor in how much we are paying. I disagree that the supply for medical equipment and medicines is going to go down. The supply drop for patient care and waiting times going up is undeniable. Premiums can keep increasing, quality can stay right around mediocre, and all the poor people can stay unhealthy. It won't bother me at all. Forgive me, other young people, and the rest of the world for actually trying to do something about it, instead of making excuses for why it is so messed up.

You seem to be under the impression that doing something, anything, is better than doing nothing, even if the thing you are proposing will make things much worse.

 

You seem to be under the impression that everyone (anyone?) here thinks the current system is quality, and doesn't need drastic reforms.

 

You seem to be under the impression the businesses will increase or maintain production levels while you seek a system with incentivizes the opposite.

 

All of those impressions are retarded, and are exactly why young people should spend more time learning than proclaiming their ignorance from mountain tops.

Edited April 3, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[gatorbait]

You seem to be under the impression that doing something, anything, is better than doing nothing, even if the thing you are proposing will make things much worse.

 

You seem to be under the impression that everyone (anyone?) here thinks the current system is quality, and doesn't need drastic reforms.

 

You seem to be under the impression the businesses will increase or maintain production levels while you seek a system with incentivizes the opposite.

 

All of those impressions are retarded, and are exactly why young people should spend more time learning than proclaiming their ignorance from mountain tops.

I offer opinions and ideas, things that might or could potentially help. Most of them get shot down, and I lick my wounds and move on. Trust me, I don't assume or imply you clowns know anything.The status quo of rising insurance premiums and millions uninsured is not working.

 

Could you please provide your ideas to make our healthcare system better? Seriously, what do you think is a better plan?

 

If more people are using care, why would supplies for medicine and equipment go down? Wouldn't they try to sell more to make up for lesser profits. These companies can deal with slightly lesser profits, in fact they won't have a choice.

Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait

[grinreaper]

You seem to be under the impression that doing something, anything, is better than doing nothing, even if the thing you are proposing will make things much worse.

 

You seem to be under the impression that everyone (anyone?) here thinks the current system is quality, and doesn't need drastic reforms.

 

You seem to be under the impression the businesses will increase or maintain production levels while you seek a system with incentivizes the opposite.

 

All of those impressions are retarded, and are exactly why young people should spend more time learning than proclaiming their ignorance from mountain tops.

He's gonna need a safe place.

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Shh, don't tell him that. I kind of enjoy his delusion that he knows everything, including the private jokes that he wasn't part of.

 

You're assuming the story he's told us about him being new/a former lurker are true. He sure sounds like a former poster -- just sporting a new handle.

 

Could be wrong there, of course, but it seems more likely than not.

[gatorbait]

 

Shh, don't tell him that. I kind of enjoy his delusion that he knows everything, including the private jokes that he wasn't part of.

A poster made a joke today about a BMW. I assumed you were referring to that. Big whoop. I'm starting to think all of you guys need to get off the Internet and go outside more.

 

You're assuming the story he's told us about him being new/a former lurker are true. He sure sounds like a former poster -- just sporting a new handle.

 

Could be wrong there, of course, but it seems more likely than not.

You're wrong. It's refreshing knowing there was someone like me and I wasn't the only whipping post around here.

[TakeYouToTasker]

I offer opinions and ideas, things that might or could potentially help. Most of them get shot down, and I lick my wounds and move on. Trust me, I don't assume or imply you clowns know anything.The status quo of rising insurance premiums and millions uninsured is not working.

 

Could you please provide your ideas to make our healthcare system better? Seriously, what do you think is a better plan?

 

If more people are using care, why would supplies for medicine and equipment go down? Wouldn't they try to sell more to make up for lesser profits. These companies can deal with slightly lesser profits, in fact they won't have a choice.

I propose doing things that would put the pressure of markets into the realm of health care, and would encourage the expansion of care providers.

 

- At birth, every US citizen, along with the SSN, would receive an HSA. Contributions to this HSA would be 100% tax deductible to any person, business, or other entity that would contribute to it, with no limits. The dollars in this HSA would roll over annually, and could be spent only on medical care. These accounts would be subject to a 100% estate tax at the time of death, with the dollars being shifted into a trust account, which unlike SS and Medicare, could not be comingled with the general fund, or borrowed against in any capacity. This trust would pay it's proceeds directly into the accounts of living citizens. Individual states and employers would also have the flexibility to contribute dollars into the accounts of their citizens and employees as they saw appropriate.

 

- Using the Interstate Commerce Clause for it's proper purpose, to strip away each individual state's right to restrict it's own insurance markets, and allow individuals to purchase insurance across state lines, forcing insurers to compete for business.

 

- Mandate that doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, provide 100% price transparency allowing consumers to shop for their health care the same way they shop for anything else, putting actual market forces on the medical industry to drive down prices.

 

- Implement tort reform, lowering the costs of malpractice insurance.

 

- Implement patent reform, shortening the duration of product monopoly, driving down the price of drugs and their delivery systems.

 

- A national pool for catastrophic care.

Edited April 3, 2017 by TakeYouToTasker

[gatorbait]

I propose doing things that would put the pressure of markets into the realm of health care, and would encourage the expansion of care providers.

 

- At birth, every US citizen, along with the SSN, would receive an HSA. Contributions to this HSA would be 100% tax deductible to any person, business, or other entity that would contribute to it, with no limits. The dollars in this HSA would roll over annually, and could be spent only on medical care. These accounts would be subject to a 100% estate tax at the time of death, with the dollars being shifted into a trust account, which unlike SS and Medicare, could not be comingled with the general fund, or borrowed against in any capacity. This trust would pay it's proceeds directly into the accounts of living citizens. Individual states and employers would also have the flexibility to contribute dollars into the accounts of their citizens and employees as they saw appropriate.

 

- Using the Interstate Commerce Clause for it's proper purpose, to strip away each individual state's right to restrict it's own insurance markets, and allow individuals to purchase insurance across state lines, forcing insurers to compete for business.

 

- Mandate that doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical companies, provide 100% price transparency allowing consumers to shop for their health care the same way they shop for anything else, putting actual market forces on the medical industry to drive down prices.

 

- Implement tort reform, lowering the costs of malpractice insurance.

 

- Implement patent reform, shortening the duration of product monopoly, driving down the price of drugs and their deliver systems.

 

- A national pool for catastrophic care.

Now this is a solid post with some great ideas. I love it. These are the kind of posts where I learn stuff. Thank you for responding, most people don't answer.

 

Screw single payer, anyone advocating for that is a moron haha 😂

Edited April 3, 2017 by gatorbait

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Any update on this?

 

I want to work with the Dems to get things done, but first I must undo everything Obama did.