Changes coming to Bills front office?

[K-9]

 

I am not an insider. I am sure you know way more about specific Bills details according to some on this board. But when the owner of a billion dollar football team can't answer WHO makes the final call or who breaks the tie then it's time to look deeper.

Terry Pegula has been sounding the EXACT same horn since he bought the team. EVERYTHING is a group decision. Consensus is ALWAYS sought. If this is a new kind of cagey for Pegula, then I'll stick to my assertion that Whaley isn't long for the team after the draft. In the meantime, Whaley will have FINAL say in the draft room, regardless. Just like he always has.

 

So if Whaley is in charge of the draft why did Terry not acknowledge that when asked? Why did he imply that "whoever felt strongest' would be the way the team went?

That's just Pegula being Pegula or Whaley is short term. "Whoever felt strongest" might be the west coast scout pounding the table for his guy. This is kind of funny to imagine.

Edited March 29, 2017 by K-9

[jeffismagic]

Was the question specifically about the draft? Sorry I can't listen to it at work. Maybe he couldn't answer because they are defaulting to McDermott's evaluation on current players and their fit for his scheme and to Whaley's (and the scouts) evaluation of prospects?

 

Yes, it was a draft question. Who is in charge of the draft? Who breaks a tie?

 

Pegula wouldn't say Whaley is safe but said that Whaley and McDermott worked well together. He didn't answer the question directly and then revealed that "whoever felt strongest" could sway a draft decision. Implied was that Terry would be the decider as he made a business reference.

[oldmanfan]

That's the idea.

 

But you don't want your HC to make the final call because his view is just not as informed about players as the GM's. They simply don't have the time to invest. Especially new coaches who have to spend their first month hiring staff and pouring over hundreds of hours of player tape to break down the guys on their own team.

 

That's doesn't mean a HC won't say I prefer this guy or that guy for his schemes. But that's FAR from having final say on what player is drafted.

I agree. The ideal is that the HC and GM are in such synch that such arguments don't come up.

[thebandit27]

Excuse me if I dont take a random posters word over what the owner stated is the current model yeaterday. Yeaterday Terry Pegula spoke those words. Those words are on video and transcribed. Are you calling the owner anoiar, misinformed about his own franchise, or are you going to insinuate that the reporters dubbed the recording? It is completely untwistable.

 

Pegula said it was a collaborative process. You are twisting that into the idea that Whaley doesn't have final say over the 53, and why? I have no idea, since I posted a link in this very thread where Pegula, Whaley, and McDermott all say, in plain English, that Whaley has final say over the 53.

 

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/01/doug_whaley_sean_mcdermott_weigh_in_on_who_has_control_of_buffalo_bills_roster.html

 

So there's no need to speculate over who would break the tie in the altogether unlikely scenario that the GM doesn't agree with the HC on who to pick.

 

It's Whaley...that's what having final say over the 53 means.

 

Arguing semantics about this is silliness when it's in print.

 

Lastly, try following a discussion on occasion instead of being so quick to throw darts. I mean, I don't mind refuting silly accusations (like, for example, that I called the owner a liar--I'm assuming that's what "anoiar" means --or misinformed), but it kind of makes you look silly when you go in guns blazing against what amounts to nothing more than a straw man.

[jeffismagic]

 

Pegula said it was a collaborative process. You are twisting that into the idea that Whaley doesn't have final say over the 53, and why? I have no idea, since I posted a link in this very thread where Pegula, Whaley, and McDermott all say, in plain English, that Whaley has final say over the 53.

 

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/01/doug_whaley_sean_mcdermott_weigh_in_on_who_has_control_of_buffalo_bills_roster.html

 

So there's no need to speculate over who would break the tie in the altogether unlikely scenario that the GM doesn't agree with the HC on who to pick.

 

It's Whaley...that's what having final say over the 53 means.

 

Arguing semantics about this is silliness when it's in print.

 

Lastly, try following a discussion on occasion instead of being so quick to throw darts. I mean, I don't mind refuting silly accusations (like, for example, that I called the owner a liar--I'm assuming that's what "anoiar" means --or misinformed), but it kind of makes you look silly when you go in guns blazing against what amounts to nothing more than a straw man.

 

You posted a link yet Terry Pegula couldn't say Doug had final say in the draft or that would break the tie when asked directly.

[thebandit27]

 

You posted a link yet Terry Pegula couldn't say Doug had final say in the draft or that would break the tie when asked directly.

 

He said all along that their team-building efforts are a group process. He has also said all along that Whaley has control over the 53; what is there to clarify?

[oldmanfan]

You posted a link yet Terry Pegula couldn't say Doug had final say in the draft or that would break the tie when asked directly.

Because he has faith that his HC and GM can work collaboratively perhaps?

 

You're a business owner, correct? You must have managers, supervisors, right? Do you expect them to work collaboratively?

[thebandit27]

Because he has faith that his HC and GM can work collaboratively perhaps?

 

You're a business owner, correct? You must have managers, supervisors, right? Do you expect them to work collaboratively?

 

This is kind of the point, right? The odds that the HC, and the GM that lead the search for said coach (who by the way said that he was "very comfortable" with the organizational structure here) are going to disagree to the point where there needs to be a tie-breaker are extremely low.

 

A good GM hires a coach that shares the same philosophy. The GM is going to provide the coach with the tools that he needs, and they'll agree on player types etc.

[jeffismagic]

Because he has faith that his HC and GM can work collaboratively perhaps?

 

You're a business owner, correct? You must have managers, supervisors, right? Do you expect them to work collaboratively?

 

Sure. But I decide in the end. Someone has to have final call in the draft room. Why is it so hard for Terry to answer? It's not like this came out of the blue.

[thebandit27]

 

Sure. But I decide in the end. Someone has to have final call in the draft room. Why is it so hard for Terry to answer? It's not like this came out of the blue.

 

It wasn't. He answered quite clearly: collaborative effort. Ideally nobody has to make a final call because there's a general consensus.

[oldmanfan]

Sure. But I decide in the end. Someone has to have final call in the draft room. Why is it so hard for Terry to answer? It's not like this came out of the blue.

He did. He said the guy that feels the strongest about a player. You just don't like the answer. I'm not a big fan of that either, but if you have those kinds of arguments the problems are bigger than that.

 

At any rate, the owner, HC, and GM have all said they are all working well together. Why not simply accept their word vs. a rumor spreader in LaCanfora who is wrong way more than he's ever right?

[papazoid]

whaley is in charge of putting the board together.

 

it sure as heck sounds like he does NOT have final say on who gets picked.

[JohnC]

No, but they could have extended his staff. That's why he walked.

 

The Pegulas were happier to spend $60M on their next 2 HC's over the next 3 years.

There is more to the Marrone departure story that you have not noted For one, Marrone through his agent thought he had a possible behind the curtain deal with the Jets. When word leaked out about it the Jets immediately denied it out of fear tampering violations. Marrone also had a behind the curtain application for the Michigan job. It's obvious that he was looking for options to his current situation.

 

The owner was under no obligation to give Marrone's staff an extension. They had contracts they were working under. The problem with Marrone was that he was full of himself. He thought he was in command and dictating terms. The bottom line is this insufferable individual took the money and walked out on his own accord. The simple truth is that he was the one who blindsided the organization and not the other way around.

[K-9]

I agree. The ideal is that the HC and GM are in such synch that such arguments don't come up.

Carroll and Schneider were mentioned above. The are the epitome of in sync thinking. On the defensive side, they have a very scheme specific player in mind and that informs their draft plans. They use personnel better suited for 34 schemes to play their 43 fronts, for instance. I'm hoping McDermott and Whaley can establish that same kind of sympatico relationship because it's rumored that McDermott also seeks a certain athlete for his schemes as well.

[oldmanfan]

Carroll and Schneider were mentioned above. The are the epitome of in sync thinking. On the defensive side, they have a very scheme specific player in mind and that informs their draft plans. They use personnel better suited for 34 schemes to play their 43 fronts, for instance. I'm hoping McDermott and Whaley can establish that same kind of sympatico relationship because it's rumored that McDermott also seeks a certain athlete for his schemes as well.

The thing that frustrates me with some fans is this. If, let's say, OBD came out with a statement that Whaley is absolutely in charge of any and all player moves, then they'd be criticized for not having a more collaborative process.

[BrooklynBills]

 

And yet Carroll is on record stating Russ Wilson was 100% Schneider's pick.

It doesn't change the fact that Schneider takes his orders from Carroll. Letting his GM have a player in the 4th round is not the same as deffering to him in terms of player types targeted, team philosophy, and draft strategy/management.

[FireChan]

There is more to the Marrone departure story that you have not noted For one, Marrone through his agent thought he had a possible behind the curtain deal with the Jets. When word leaked out about it the Jets immediately denied it out of fear tampering violations. Marrone also had a behind the curtain application for the Michigan job. It's obvious that he was looking for options to his current situation.

 

The owner was under no obligation to give Marrone's staff an extension. They had contracts they were working under. The problem with Marrone was that he was full of himself. He thought he was in command and dictating terms. The bottom line is this insufferable individual took the money and walked out on his own accord. The simple truth is that he was the one who blindsided the organization and not the other way around.

Again, with the way Whaley was operating as GM, can you blame him?

 

It's not as though you can reasonably expect a guy not to plan for the possibility he may have to move on. Marrone was under no obligation to not work if he exercised his option.

 

The owner wasn't under any obligation, no. But it may not have cost him the best coach we've had in 12 years and $60M dollars and the destruction of the most talented Bills roster in a decade.

Edited March 29, 2017 by FireChan

[oldmanfan]

It doesn't change the fact that Schneider takes his orders from Carroll. Letting his GM have a player in the 4th round is not the same as deffering to him in terms of player types targeted, team philosophy, and draft strategy/management.

I don't think he is deferring. The point is that Seattle is successful precisely because the coach and GM are in synch regarding personnel management.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

So how is it that Seattle has been able to completely overhaul their roster in three years and have surprisingly quickly become legitimate contenders? From how I see it, and how it makes sense to me, it comes down to a harmony on the different levels of the organization, fom the front office to scouts to coaching staff to trainers. It starts with Carroll and Schneider, whom both work with a weights and balances system that has given Pete Carroll the final say, but allows Scheider to make a lot of decisions on his own.

 

Schneider was undoubtedly the Russell Wilson benefactor last year, and Carroll even had to warn the scouting team to act happy for John when the Seahawks were readying to take Wilson in the third round. That wasn't a popular decision, as it's come out, among some of the scouts, but Carroll took Schneider's back on that and I'd say that turned out pretty well. (I would think that Schneider now has a pretty strong trump card anytime someone doubts his judgement.)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.fieldgulls.com/platform/amp/nfl-draft/2013/2/21/4014600/nfl-combine-the-seahawks-scouting-process

[BrooklynBills]

I don't think he is deferring. The point is that Seattle is successful precisely because the coach and GM are in synch regarding personnel management.

Yes. They are.

 

Schneider was not forced on Carroll when Carroll was named HC/Team President. They hired Carroll first and then Carroll had a say in the hiring of Schneider. You'll also notice that the owner is no where involved in any decisions.

 

It is much different than what the Bills are presenting right now.