thebandit27 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 You are really stretching this. Nowhere in the interview did Pegula state Whaley has the final call. To the contrary Pegula stated that if maybe someone feels more strongly about a player you lean that way. That in no way shape or form equates to Whaley having final say so. As much as you want to twist it it is untwistable. First off, if Whaley has final say over the 53, which Pegula, Whaley, and McDermott have all stated on multiple occasions, then there's no need to make assumptions about who that "someone" would be that breaks the tie. Second, if K-9 is saying it, you can pretty much rely upon it. He tends to know such things.
JohnC Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 As more and more comes out about this guy, I realize how much we screwed up letting him go. Imagine a HC not wanting to double down on EJM? The Bills didn't let him go. He walked on his own accord. In hindsight it was probably wrong to trade up to get Watkins at the expense of a future first round pick. So on this issue Marrone's position was more right but not necessarily his conduct on this matter. My position on Whaley has been changing much of it due to how he has handled the qb issue. But when describing Whaley and how he has operated collaboration is the hallmark of his style. There is never going to be total agreement on players and prospects within the staff. But that doesn't mean that he isn't the type of manager who doesn't encourage input from everyone involved in the process. I can't say for sure how much authority McDermott has compared to Whaley within the normal working relationship range between a HC and GM. But what I am sure of is that because of Whaley's collaborative approach to his job that it is not going to change how he functions.
K-9 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 You are really stretching this. Nowhere in the interview did Pegula state Whaley has the final call. To the contrary Pegula stated that if maybe someone feels more strongly about a player you lean that way. That in no way shape or form equates to Whaley having final say so. As much as you want to twist it it is untwistable. I'm not in the business of untwisting things. And I trust what I've known for a long time. Hey, I sent the interview without comment to a friend then called him and asked him in a neutral voice what he thought. He started mentioning, "Wow, this confirms my worst fears. We're in a mess." Like I said, I give this credence if I see Whaley fired after the draft.
FireChan Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 The Bills didn't let him go. He walked on his own accord. In hindsight it was probably wrong to trade up to get Watkins at the expense of a future first round pick. So on this issue Marrone's position was more right but not necessarily his conduct on this matter. My position on Whaley has been changing much of it due to how he has handled the qb issue. But when describing Whaley and how he has operated collaboration is the hallmark of his style. There is never going to be total agreement on players and prospects within the staff. But that doesn't mean that he isn't the type of manager who doesn't encourage input from everyone involved in the process. I can't say for sure how much authority McDermott has compared to Whaley within the normal working relationship range between a HC and GM. But what I am sure of is that because of Whaley's collaborative approach to his job that it is not going to change how he functions. They let him walk. Marrone was proven to be right about a lot. Mike Williams, Chris Hogan, EJ, the Sammy trade, Kyle Orton, his choice in DC. Whaley lives for "his" guys. Always has.
jeffismagic Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 The only way I buy into this is if Whaley is let go after the draft. Not before. It's just never the way it's been done unless your GM is a short time employee, imo. NOBODY; not any of the coaches from McDermott on down, not any of the scouts, not Manos, NOBODY is as intimately familiar with the ENTIRE enormous scope of the year long process involved as Whaley is at the moment. This interview has nothing to do with Whaley's fate. Maybe he stays, maybe he goes. But as of right now the Bills do not have an official trigger man. It's whoever is in the Pegulas ear. Right now that appears to be McDermott. But even Russ Brandon will have sway in this business model.
ndirish1978 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 Well I'm not in favor of the Watkins trade either. That alone makes me wish we had another GM
K-9 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 Carroll is absolutely in charge. Schneider works for Carroll. This doesn't mean that Schneider's opinions aren't solicited or dismissed or not valued by Carroll. Indeed, Schneider is Carroll's main source going into the draft and he is leaned on heavily.
JohnC Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 They let him walk. Marrone was proven to be right about a lot. Mike Williams, Chris Hogan, EJ, the Sammy trade, Kyle Orton, his choice in DC. Whaley lives for "his" guys. Always has. Marrone walked on his own accord. The contract he was working under had buy out clause that he exercised. The team had no ability to force him to stay when he invoked the buy out clause within the stipulated time frame.
jeffismagic Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 This doesn't mean that Schneider's opinions aren't solicited or dismissed or not valued by Carroll. Indeed, Schneider is Carroll's main source going into the draft and he is leaned on heavily. Of course. Carroll seems to stay out of the way of his scouts while holding ultimate power. Not all coaches can resist that temptation.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 Carroll is absolutely in charge. Schneider works for Carroll. And yet Carroll is on record stating Russ Wilson was 100% Schneider's pick.
Koko78 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 http://www.thedailynewsonline.com/bdn02/pegula-speaks-with-media-for-first-time-since-2015-20170329 The relationship between head coach Sean McDermott and general manager Doug WhaleyA recent report from CBS Sports indicated that Buffalo’s coach and GM have a relationship that’s “not built to last.” Pegula addressed their relationship.“Yeah, we just spent the afternoon working together, the three of us. Those guys get along great. They've been making some key decisions and they work well together,” Pegula said.
oldmanfan Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 God forbid you have a HC and GM that work well together. I watched the video. I would prefer if there is a disagreement about a draft pick that one guy make the final call. But I would say two other things: 1. Someone will make the call and 2. An effective HC/GM combo that agrees on team philosophy (see: Seattle, Pittsburgh, Baltimore as examples) is the most important factor in building and sustaining a winning team. Early comments from the owner and HC say that is happening, unless of course you choose to think they're lying.
K-9 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 This interview has nothing to do with Whaley's fate. Maybe he stays, maybe he goes. But as of right now the Bills do not have an official trigger man. It's whoever is in the Pegulas ear. Right now that appears to be McDermott. But even Russ Brandon will have sway in this business model. For Whaley to be stripped of his ability to make the final call at the pinnacle of the scouting process means he isn't in the long range plans. That's what it has to do with his fate. The bold text isn't worth commenting on for many reasons. Not the least of which is it's just uninformed opinion that serves to fit your ongoing narrative. Have at it. If Whaley is still here after the draft, you can rest assured he had final say on all picks and trades just as he and other GMs have had for years.
oldmanfan Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 This interview has nothing to do with Whaley's fate. Maybe he stays, maybe he goes. But as of right now the Bills do not have an official trigger man. It's whoever is in the Pegulas ear. Right now that appears to be McDermott. But even Russ Brandon will have sway in this business model. It has been stated a number of times Brandon is not involved in football decisions. Simple question: do you believe anything that comes from OBD?
FireChan Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 Marrone walked on his own accord. The contract he was working under had buy out clause that he exercised. The team had no ability to force him to stay when he invoked the buy out clause within the stipulated time frame. No, but they could have extended his staff. That's why he walked. The Pegulas were happier to spend $60M on their next 2 HC's over the next 3 years.
Bill_with_it Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 First off, if Whaley has final say over the 53, which Pegula, Whaley, and McDermott have all stated on multiple occasions, then there's no need to make assumptions about who that "someone" would be that breaks the tie. Second, if K-9 is saying it, you can pretty much rely upon it. He tends to know such things. Excuse me if I dont take a random posters word over what the owner stated is the current model yeaterday. Yeaterday Terry Pegula spoke those words. Those words are on video and transcribed. Are you calling the owner anoiar, misinformed about his own franchise, or are you going to insinuate that the reporters dubbed the recording? It is completely untwistable.
jeffismagic Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 (edited) For Whaley to be stripped of his ability to make the final call at the pinnacle of the scouting process means he isn't in the long range plans. That's what it has to do with his fate. The bold text isn't worth commenting on for many reasons. Not the least of which is it's just uninformed opinion that serves to fit your ongoing narrative. Have at it. If Whaley is still here after the draft, you can rest assured he had final say on all picks and trades just as he and other GMs have had for years. I am not an insider. I am sure you know way more about specific Bills details according to some on this board. But when the owner of a billion dollar football team can't answer WHO makes the final call or who breaks the tie then it's time to look deeper. Edited March 29, 2017 by jeffismagic
K-9 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 God forbid you have a HC and GM that work well together. I watched the video. I would prefer if there is a disagreement about a draft pick that one guy make the final call. But I would say two other things: 1. Someone will make the call and 2. An effective HC/GM combo that agrees on team philosophy (see: Seattle, Pittsburgh, Baltimore as examples) is the most important factor in building and sustaining a winning team. Early comments from the owner and HC say that is happening, unless of course you choose to think they're lying. That's the idea. But you don't want your HC to make the final call because his view is just not as informed about players as the GM's. They simply don't have the time to invest. Especially new coaches who have to spend their first month hiring staff and pouring over hundreds of hours of player tape to break down the guys on their own team. That's doesn't mean a HC won't say I prefer this guy or that guy for his schemes. But that's FAR from having final say on what player is drafted.
jeffismagic Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 That's the idea. But you don't want your HC to make the final call because his view is just not as informed about players as the GM's. They simply don't have the time to invest. Especially new coaches who have to spend their first month hiring staff and pouring over hundreds of hours of player tape to break down the guys on their own team. That's doesn't mean a HC won't say I prefer this guy or that guy for his schemes. But that's FAR from having final say on what player is drafted. So if Whaley is in charge of the draft why did Terry not acknowledge that when asked? Why did he imply that "whoever felt strongest' would be the way the team went?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted March 29, 2017 Posted March 29, 2017 So if Whaley is in charge of the draft why did Terry not acknowledge that when asked? Why did he imply that "whoever felt strongest' would be the way the team went? Was the question specifically about the draft? Sorry I can't listen to it at work. Maybe he couldn't answer because they are defaulting to McDermott's evaluation on current players and their fit for his scheme and to Whaley's (and the scouts) evaluation of prospects?
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