Thurman#1 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) It's more of an ominous sign for the franchise. Owners who undercut their GM's (think Dan Snyder) pretty much guarantee ongoing confusion and a mess on the field. That's owners who do it consistently over the long term, and owners who do it to good GMs. Neither is the case with Pegula and Whaley. The Pegulas have proven they have no plan, they are winging it. See the Sabres with the Pat Lafontaine and Ted Nolan being brought back during a rebuild. Disagree. Utterly. It's been three years. When you start something new, it's hard. Coming to a Plan A, seeing that it's not working and then going to Plan B, that's not winging it. It's a process of figuring out new things. He hasn't convinced me yet that he'll be a good owner. But it's really hard to acquire a totally new business like this. He's done some bad things. It's very clear in hindsight that he should've brought in a czar. But following the wrong guy is a very common problem in a situation that's utterly new. The question is whether you can adapt when you see that you've made a mistake. We'll see. Edited March 28, 2017 by Thurman#1
Thurman#1 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) That was last season. He went into the 2014 season with EJ, Tuel and Palmer as his QBs before Orton was signed. Rex brought in Tyrod, not Whaley. He's mostly ignored the most valuable position in the league. It's inexcusable. Whaley wasn't looking the other direction when Tyrod was brought in. Same as he gets the blame for EJ because Nix put him in charge of the "QB team" that draft, he gets the credit for Tyrod for being GM at the time. But yeah, the way to get a good QB is to draft one. And then another and another till you get the right guy. The numbers of franchise QB acquired in free agency is minuscule, and it's generally the result of a team drafting two good QBs (Luck and Manning for the Colts and Brees and Rivers for the Chargers). Free agency is how you get bridge guys, bottom-third starters, backups, starters who should be backups and guys who might still develop but almost never do. You know what Churchill said about democracy? "It's been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." Same with getting your QB by drafting them consistently. Edited March 28, 2017 by Thurman#1
wilcoam Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Scott Law, once again, makes alot of sense All I know is if our Bills were winning none of these threads about whose in charge and who has more power would be active Non one would care because we'd all be taking about whether we'll be winning 10, 11, 12, or 13 games And whom we might be meeting in the playoffs And as long as we keep losing these threads will continue endlessly jc
3rdand12 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Every single reporter and person from the team stated they had equal reps including ej manuel himself. Every single media person with a twitter account posted live during the qb comp and in no way shape or form was ej the front runner. Most insinuated he was dead last. No i have no reason to believe there will be a competition, there not even remotely the same situation. If we draft a rookie first rounder then there might be a competition. Im telling you what i seen with my own two eyes, ej manuel skipped at least 3 balls anywhere between 4-10ish feet away from his wr that practice I went to. How many practices do you think the coach is going to waist on skipped passes before he realizes the kid isnt cut out to start and hes waisting valuable practices with team and its unfair to the team an organization to continue to waist away the practices with skipped balls, balls sailing away from the wrs, and balls being thrown the wrs? Not trying to be harsh here but at some point, the teams ability to practice how there going to play overrides some fans desire to watch a qb skip passes of the ground. Point taken But once the team sees a a front runner equal reps with the ones go away. Or should. The sooner the "starters" rep together the better IMO That's owners who do it consistently over the long term, and owners who do it to good GMs. Neither is the case with Pegula and Whaley. Disagree. Utterly. It's been three years. When you start something new, it's hard. Coming to a Plan A, seeing that it's not working and then going to Plan B, that's not winging it. It's a process of figuring out new things. He hasn't convinced me yet that he'll be a good owner. But it's really hard to acquire a totally new business like this. He's done some bad things. It's very clear in hindsight that he should've brought in a czar. But following the wrong guy is a very common problem in a situation that's utterly new. The question is whether you can adapt when you see that you've made a mistake. We'll see. Changes have been made to the organization. They are active owners at this point. adjustment will occur
Cripple Creek Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Actually Nix and Brandon led the 5 day "no stone unturned" search for Marrone, with Whaley as Assistant GM. Well, that's where you'll usually find the slugs and slime.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Which of these Pegula hires would you consider a success?Just saying you can't just throw a list out without context. Maybe you didn't get the memo but the Sabres were actually bad on purpose for a few years. Scott Law, once again, makes alot of sense All I know is if our Bills were winning none of these threads about whose in charge and who has more power would be active Non one would care because we'd all be taking about whether we'll be winning 10, 11, 12, or 13 games And whom we might be meeting in the playoffs And as long as we keep losing these threads will continue endlessly jc Not really. Once the novelty of making the playoffs wears off (about a day or two) then it becomes how we can't win playoff games. http://billswire.usatoday.com/2017/03/27/sean-mcdermott-clears-air-on-reported-rift-in-bills-front-office/ So did we put this thread to bed yet, or are we still concocting conspiracies? Edited March 28, 2017 by PromoTheRobot
YoloinOhio Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) The opposite of conservative the way I used it would be aggressive. The main advantage of having an offensive minded coach is that maybe they also understand quarterbacks and quarterback play. Think of Dick Jauron as a conservative, defensive minded coach. Why are you labeling McDermott as "conservative" - apparently he doesn't agree with your assessment @joebuscaglia #Bills HC Sean McDermott on going for it on 4th down: My personality is aggressive. If we're going down, we're going down all guns blazing. #Bills HC Sean McDermott: Calculated aggressiveness is the way to do it. Edited March 28, 2017 by YoloinOhio
jeffismagic Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Why are you labeling McDermott as "conservative" - apparently he doesn't agree with your assessment @joebuscaglia #Bills HC Sean McDermott on going for it on 4th down: My personality is aggressive. If we're going down, we're going down all guns blazing. #Bills HC Sean McDermott: Calculated aggressiveness is the way to do it. His defenses have become less aggressive every year. He hired Tampa 2 Leslie Frazier to run the defense. He retained the veteran QB for another couple of years. Everyone says they are aggressive until you see them punt the ball from the 42 yard line. Let's see what the draft looks like. Edited March 28, 2017 by jeffismagic
DrDawkinstein Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 His defenses have become less aggressive every year. He hired Tampa 2 Leslie Frazier to run the defense. He retained the veteran QB for another couple of years. Everyone says they are aggressive until you see them punt the ball from the 42 yard line. Let's see what the draft looks like. What does Whaley's draft have anything to do with McDermott's in-game decisions? I agree with your first two lines, but the last one doesnt follow.
jeffismagic Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 What does Whaley's draft have anything to do with McDermott's in-game decisions? I agree with your first two lines, but the last one doesnt follow. Do you really think Whaley will be running the draft? I think the draft will give us insight into who is in control. Just like last year when we spent three picks on Ragland told me Whaley was fetching for Rex. If we take a QB at 10 it will either mean Whaley is running the draft or McDermott is more visionary and aggressive than I picture him.
Dr. Who Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 What does Whaley's draft have anything to do with McDermott's in-game decisions? I agree with your first two lines, but the last one doesnt follow. Implied: if the draft is defense heavy and he is okay with the place-holder qb, the reality is he is going to try and win low-scoring games with conservative offense.
jeffismagic Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Implied: if the draft is defense heavy and he is okay with the place-holder qb, the reality is he is going to try and win low-scoring games with conservative offense. That would be another clue, yes.
PromoTheRobot Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Do you really think Whaley will be running the draft? I think the draft will give us insight into who is in control. Just like last year when we spent three picks on Ragland told me Whaley was fetching for Rex. If we take a QB at 10 it will either mean Whaley is running the draft or McDermott is more visionary and aggressive than I picture him.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Do you really think Whaley will be running the draft? I think the draft will give us insight into who is in control. Just like last year when we spent three picks on Ragland told me Whaley was fetching for Rex. If we take a QB at 10 it will either mean Whaley is running the draft or McDermott is more visionary and aggressive than I picture him. ....what the hell did I miss going into YEAR 55 of following this club?.....if there is not a collaborative effort among 20+ on the coaching staff and 10+ on the scouting staff with GM/HC working in tandem, I now know why the last seventeen years have been so effed up...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Do you really think Whaley will be running the draft? I think the draft will give us insight into who is in control. Just like last year when we spent three picks on Ragland told me Whaley was fetching for Rex. If we take a QB at 10 it will either mean Whaley is running the draft or McDermott is more visionary and aggressive than I picture him. 100% of course I do. Do you really think Whaley would just sit there and let someone else do his job, the outcome of which will be tied to him for the rest of his career? Cmon dude. Get real here. You are looking to extrapolate way too much from ZERO real information. I expect Whaley to run the draft, but also get players that fit McD's scheme and needs. Implied: if the draft is defense heavy and he is okay with the place-holder qb, the reality is he is going to try and win low-scoring games with conservative offense. This is a much more reasonable meaning to what jeff said. Problem is, he already clarified that he didnt mean it this way.
jeffismagic Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 100% of course I do. Do you really think Whaley would just sit there and let someone else do his job, the outcome of which will be tied to him for the rest of his career? Cmon dude. Get real here. You are looking to extrapolate way too much from ZERO real information. I expect Whaley to run the draft, but also get players that fit McD's scheme and needs. This is a much more reasonable meaning to what jeff said. Problem is, he already clarified that he didnt mean it this way. Whaley strikes me as a weak GM. The issue for me is how much will he push for his vision? If he just likes scouting I could see someone more power hungry filling the void. NFL coaches are control freaks. If you are not a shark they will have you bringing them coffee. As far as motivation, Whaley knew he was on very thin ice after the ownership change. If Marrone had not quit, Pegulas were reported to have been bringing in a czar such as Polian. When the Pegulas needed to find a coach, Doug became the football guy left in the room and Pegulas got to know him. At this point it could have gone either way. Whaley brought the candidates but the Pegulas went with marketing over his call. To keep his new boss happy Whaley played nice and went to get players for Rex. After Rex got fired, Pegulas appreciated that Doug made the right coaching recommendation. And so they had Doug again setup the board. But again, Pegulas fell in love with the wrestler this time. Doug now can play nice with the new owner's hire or... If it was me I would quit, personally.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 (edited) Whaley strikes me as a weak GM. The issue for me is how much will he push for his vision? If he just likes scouting I could see someone more power hungry filling the void. NFL coaches are control freaks. If you are not a shark they will have you bringing them coffee. As far as motivation, Whaley knew he was on very thin ice after the ownership change. If Marrone had not quit, Pegulas were reported to have been bringing in a czar such as Polian. When the Pegulas needed to find a coach, Doug became the football guy left in the room and Pegulas got to know him. At this point it could have gone either way. Whaley brought the candidates but the Pegulas went with marketing over his call. To keep his new boss happy Whaley played nice and went to get players for Rex. After Rex got fired, Pegulas appreciated that Doug made the right coaching recommendation. And so they had Doug again setup the board. But again, Pegulas fell in love with the wrestler this time. Doug now can play nice with the new owner's hire or... If it was me I would quit, personally. .....I suggest you send your resume' to: The Buffalo Bills 1 Bills Dr Orchard Park, NY 14127 Attention: Desperately Seeking GM Candidates From Message Boards ....better hurry...with BBMB shut down, they already received 3,284 candidate applications............ Edited March 28, 2017 by OldTimeAFLGuy
jeffismagic Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 .....I suggest you send your resume' to: The Buffalo Bills 1 Bills Dr Orchard Park, NY 14127 Attention: Desperately Seeking GM Candidates From Message Boards ....better hurry...with BBMB shut down, they already received 3,284 candidate applications............ Yes, the "can you do the job better" defense. Been hearing this one since Marv Levy as GM, Russ Brandon as GM, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan, etc
Buffalo86 Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 I think the Pegulas consider Whaley to be a friend, so they'll let him continue as "GM" while basically allowing McDermott to do the actual job. And contrary to many fans' belief that Whaley is one of the top GMs in the game, I highly doubt he's viewed as such in league circles.
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 28, 2017 Posted March 28, 2017 Yes, the "can you do the job better" defense. Been hearing this one since Marv Levy as GM, Russ Brandon as GM, Dick Jauron, Chan Gailey, Doug Marrone, Rex Ryan, etc ...read my post from another thread that addresses pretty much every name you tossed out......it ain't pretty............. .".the DonoHOLE era of disaster with his demand to be anointed "El Presidente" and his total control freak nature set this club back a decade......RW went into panic mode when he learned his inner circle of trust was woefully violated.....so he called Marv who he trusted, started elevating Brandon who he trusted into positions not qualified for and relied on Buddy (think he was about 70) who he trusted....thus the era of "OBD Patchwork FO" began.......followed by Jauron, Gailey and Marrone......"Nightmare on Abbott Road"....Whaley came from pretty good pedigree ala the Steelers and I sure as hell hope Colbert was MORE influential than DonoHOLE........DW has been "middle of the pack" despite this mess which is not quite good enough....BUT....Pegula is a pretty smart guy....he is starting year 3 of ownership and the club is 15-17 so far, hardly what TP would want.....so me thinks DW is on TP's radar and if he does not like what he sees, he'll pull the plug just as he did with Regier when he determined ON HIS OWN TIMETABLE that 'ol Darcy needed to pack....stay tuned."
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