Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Sure kid. Learn to read and you can join the rest of us. My bad, I apologize, I did lump you in there but was jk kidding with you'll like it comment. I get worked up sometimes when people defend the people who have completely let the fans and city down.
JM2009 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Oh, thank goodness! I had feared that the Tyrod and Whaley haters had dried up and blew away or had found a big rock to have a party under. Nope - here they come... I like TT and do not like Whaley.
mjt328 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 How people still can argue this is beyond me. Whaley said on tape repeatedly that EJ was his pick, he set the draft board, was point man on Bills QB search that year, said that if EJ didn't work out he would be looking for a new job, made the Watkins trade because he said he had his QB and that Sammy was the missing piece to playoff puzzle, told coaching candidates in 2015 that EJ was a good QB that wasn't properly developed by previous coaching staff, and all his actions since Formally taken over GM duties have shown nothing but unwavering belief and support in EJ. Yes. We know that Whaley was very involved in scouting EJ Manuel and putting him a top the board for the 2013 QB prospects. That doesn't mean that Whaley would have picked Manuel at #16 if he was the GM. Maybe he would have targeted him in the 4th Round like Cardale Jones. Maybe he would have taken him at #8 and never traded down. We don't know. You also have to consider that Buddy Nix drafted ZERO quarterbacks in his first 3 years as Bills GM, then started the 2013 offseason by cutting Ryan Fitzpatrick. The Bills went into the draft with injury-prone Kevin Kolb and nothing else. If the Bills were not aggressive in drafting a QB that year and they missed out on a guy they liked, there are NO DOUBTS that Ralph Wilson would have totally cleaned house after the season was over. Like what has been said earlier in this thread, Whaley has had a very unusual tenure as GM of the Bills. Most guys in his position enter the job with a totally clean slate. Whaley was handed the reigns after Free Agency and the Draft had concluded, with a new coaching staff already in place. Then the owner died. Then his coach quit. Then the new owners hired the replacement for him. Then the owners fired that coach. It's really hard to judge a GM without stability around him.
dpberr Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Whaley is ok. He's excellent with existing players - the trades and free agent signings. He's terrible with drafting would-be players. I've wondered if it were reverse, would we view his tenure differently?
Success Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Whaley is ok. He's excellent with existing players - the trades and free agent signings. He's terrible with drafting would-be players. I've wondered if it were reverse, would we view his tenure differently? His drafts have been solid. I saw one article in a Dallas paper that ranked the last 3 drafts and had the Bills in the top 10. Every player from last year's draft is on the roster. Lawson, Ragland and Seymour will all start. Washington and Listenbee will be significant contributors. What more can you ask ?
Dorkington Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 His drafts have been solid. I saw one article in a Dallas paper that ranked the last 3 drafts and had the Bills in the top 10. Every player from last year's draft is on the roster. Lawson, Ragland and Seymour will all start. Washington and Listenbee will be significant contributors. What more can you ask ? A franchise QB apparently.
jeffismagic Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 His drafts have been solid. I saw one article in a Dallas paper that ranked the last 3 drafts and had the Bills in the top 10. Every player from last year's draft is on the roster. Lawson, Ragland and Seymour will all start. Washington and Listenbee will be significant contributors. What more can you ask ? Seymour is only starting because the Bills have found no one better. If Andre Holmes "starts" is that an achievement for Whaley also? Ragland cost THREE picks. That's terrible draft management. Listenbee has done jack squat. Washington was outplayed by several DT's taken after him. Just being on the roster does not demonstrate great drafting one year later.
FireChan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 His drafts have been solid. I saw one article in a Dallas paper that ranked the last 3 drafts and had the Bills in the top 10. Every player from last year's draft is on the roster. Lawson, Ragland and Seymour will all start. Washington and Listenbee will be significant contributors. What more can you ask ? EJ was both a starter and solid contributor at one point. Gold star for Whaley for him too?
Jerry Jabber Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Besides the fire, the flight on the Hindenburg was quite nice. Rear-end problems aside, the 1970's Pinto was relatively a safe car to drive. Timothy Dalton was the best James Bond. Gary Cherone was the best frontman of Van Halen.
Success Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Seymour is only starting because the Bills have found no one better. If Andre Holmes "starts" is that an achievement for Whaley also? Ragland cost THREE picks. That's terrible draft management. Listenbee has done jack squat. Washington was outplayed by several DT's taken after him. Just being on the roster does not demonstrate great drafting one year later. I think Seymour is a steal, and Washington played well last year. You can look at almost any draft pick for any team and find guys that were picked later who played better. Ragland probably should have gone in the 1st. If he's a dominant LB, we won't miss those picks.
jeffismagic Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Besides the fire, the flight on the Hindenburg was quite nice. Rear-end problems aside, the 1970's Pinto was relatively a safe car to drive. Timothy Dalton was the best James Bond. Gary Cherone was the best frontman of Van Halen. Yeah, the title of this thread invited the punch lines! I think Seymour is a steal, and Washington played well last year. You can look at almost any draft pick for any team and find guys that were picked later who played better. Ragland probably should have gone in the 1st. If he's a dominant LB, we won't miss those picks. Which decade would Ragland be a good 1st round pick? When Shane Conlan came out?
Success Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 EJ was both a starter and solid contributor at one point. Gold star for Whaley for him too? Not an intellectually honest question. EJ is a bust, but I still don't fault the pick that much. We had to draft a qb, and it's not like anyone else from that draft was great.
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 I disagree. Jack was the pick. Okay you could argue for Jack but his issues are clearly even more serious. He looks arthritic out there. I think he might never make an NFL player. Regardless once you put a line through Mack then Shaq was sticking out BPA on my board.
Jerry Jabber Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Yeah, the title of this thread invited the punch lines! Which decade would Ragland be a good 1st round pick? When Shane Conlan came out? So far, Whaley has put together a sub-par team. To say he's done a "heck of a job" is ludicrous.
CommonCents Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 His drafts have been solid. I saw one article in a Dallas paper that ranked the last 3 drafts and had the Bills in the top 10. Every player from last year's draft is on the roster. Lawson, Ragland and Seymour will all start. Washington and Listenbee will be significant contributors. What more can you ask ? If your going to attempt to evaluate last years draft class wouldn't it be easier to classify it as a complete unknown than to try and place any expectations on these players? For a bunch of day 1 starters the Bills 16' class had the least amount of impact of any rookie class. Lawson spent most of the season on light duty and when he returned he look out of place. Ragland showed up out of shape to camp and blew out his knee, he is penciled in as a starter by default. Seymour could have just as easily been Corey White, etc. Listenbee has spent a solid 8 months in and out of surgery, hopefully he can make the team. What did Washington do?
wilcoam Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) You're right CD1, its not fair to evaluate DW, on the lack of success our Bills had b4 he worked here So I'll evaluate DW only on his work under Nix and since May 2013 when DW became our GM I also won't evaluate it based on a personal like or dislike, too much of that happens on these message boards And I personally like Whaley, I want him to succeed with our Bills, why not? So I will evaluate him on the only thing that counts Wins and losses on the playing field Unfort when you do that the evaluation remains the same We have not yet had a successful NFL season yet with DW working either as the GM or as Nix's assistant That's factual Perhaps the single exception, and its a reach, is the 2014 campaign, when we at least won 3 game more than we had won in 2013 Still the totality of DW's work has not yet resulted in a single successful season That is despite message board fans falling all over themselves about our drafts and FA signings and HC/OC hirings 'Brilliant' work yet none of it worked, lol Again, that's not saying anyone who has an opinion that he's the guy that can make it work in the future might not be dead on Maybe he can, we don't know the future But if you look back at his past work, his record, the totality of not making the playoffs in 4+ consecutive years, And claim he did a 'heck of a job' I have to say, with all sincerity, and backed by facts, you are congratulating failure Sorry... jc Edited March 21, 2017 by wilcoam
FireChan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Not an intellectually honest question. EJ is a bust, but I still don't fault the pick that much. We had to draft a qb, and it's not like anyone else from that draft was great. Why not? If a guy starts or contributes, the pick was good, was your entire argument. By that criteria, EJ started some and contributed. What more could you ask for? Okay you could argue for Jack but his issues are clearly even more serious. He looks arthritic out there. I think he might never make an NFL player. Regardless once you put a line through Mack then Shaq was sticking out BPA on my board. Issues aside, Jack was BPA in talent and it wasn't even close. They took an inferior prospect who may have been a better short term player. The reason why it's so maddening is that going BPA with Jack means we don't have to need to take Ragland, then guess who has an extra 4th before a certain QB was taken. Not going BPA at #19 literally cost us Dak. What a shame.
JaCrispy Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) Not an intellectually honest question. EJ is a bust, but I still don't fault the pick that much. We had to draft a qb, and it's not like anyone else from that draft was great. Not an intellectually honest question. EJ is a bust, but I still don't fault the pick that much. We had to draft a qb, and it's not like anyone else from that draft was great. I most certainly fault them for the pick...the Bills put themselves in the position where their backs were against the wall to begin with....and then when everybody and their brother KNEW EJ was terrible, they STILL "closed their eyes" and dreamed the dream that EJ could be a franchise QB...I will never forget the moment the pick was made- at that very moment I began counting down when they would draft their next QB...that's how terrible of a pick it was....a time when fans should be celebrating that we finally drafted a top QB, I was busy looking up draft prospects 3 years down the road that we could possibly replace him with...there is the Patriot Way, and then there is the Bills Way...and that, my friend, was soooo Billsy. Edited March 21, 2017 by JaCrispy
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Besides the fire, the flight on the Hindenburg was quite nice. Rear-end problems aside, the 1970's Pinto was relatively a safe car to drive. Timothy Dalton was the best James Bond. Gary Cherone was the best frontman of Van Halen. Good stuff lol.
filthymcnasty08 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Using similar logic to that of the OP, we should be talking about the heckuva job Rex did here!
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