Webster Guy Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Switch coaching staffs and flip-flop systems every two years or so and try to pick players you won't have to replace because they don't fit the system. I seriously wonder how you get 7/8 wins doing that. Very true Richie. That and the fact that maybe 1 franchise qb enters the league each year, (some years there are none) and we're supposed to beat all the other teams to that guy with a perennial mid-round pick. The bottom line is we have a lot of talent here. The disadvantage of a new coach is the personnel system fits, but the advantage is we're rolling out a shiny new offense and defense with some elite players on both sides of the ball. This time it won't be Roman and Rex with their 1990's playbooks either.
Riverboat Richie Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 I'm just getting with the program. Isn't that what the all the cool kids say? You're going to let these guys get to you? Not important enough for me to worry about.
Dorkington Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Someone who excels at his position. Someone the team can not function without. WRT QB, a guy that can snatch victory from the hands of defeat time and time and time again if or when game gets that bad. even if lets hope it gets better much sooner than that. Certainly. Would just like to see a coach get to really install their systems, and develop their preferred players for once. I know some teams/coaches turn things around in one year, but I'm not sure if that's the norm or not. Seems like one would need a bit of time.
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Thanks Mr Negativity this^^^^^^in a big way!
Riverboat Richie Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Very true Richie. That and the fact that maybe 1 franchise qb enters the league each year, (some years there are none) and we're supposed to beat all the other teams to that guy with a perennial mid-round pick. The bottom line is we have a lot of talent here. The disadvantage of a new coach is the personnel system fits, but the advantage is we're rolling out a shiny new offense and defense with some elite players on both sides of the ball. This time it won't be Roman and Rex with their 1990's playbooks either. The reality is that they won't know what players are going to do under the guidance of the new coaching staff on both sides of the ball. It's all new to everyone and there is no last year.
BuffaloBud420 Posted March 21, 2017 Author Posted March 21, 2017 If you put a top 10 QB behind center this a a playoff team and contender. Whaley has whiffed on QB im denying it. This is not a pro Whaley thread. We have great running backs, good WRs (when heathly), good offensive line, great defensive at times...it means nothing without QB that's can close out games. Give credit where credit is due and when it's not. Bottom line Whaley is gone if QB position does not improve dramatically.
row_33 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Aside from the wanton daily handgun murders, Marion Barry's DC was a great place to visit.
george c Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 On paper these last few years, we may have had the most talent on this roster since the Super Bowl teams. Unfortunately we don't have number 12 behind center. It always comes down to QB. I would draft one this year in first 3 rounds just to have another option if Tyrod doesn't finally step up. However you are only as good as your QB in this league and if things continue not to workout at that position. Whaley has to go. Hilarious OP. Last everyone checked, we stink to hilarious proportions, and are the perennial door mat when it comes to making the post season. Yeah, great job....
ddaryl Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) Whaleys issue is he worked under Nix then when he became his own GM the Pegulas over rode him on HC with Rex and he ended up getting players Rex needed and or wanted to make his scheme work. With a new HC a new Scheme you have ot let a few players walk like Gilmore who just would not return $14 mil in value IMO At this point The only real concern is QB, but thats a position that much of the league struggles with, and its the position that will either make or break Whaley in the short term from here. Bottom line it will come down to Coaching and QB play. Did we hire the right coach this time... Will TT improve just a little bit more while coaching improves the rest of the team around him. If so we will be in fine shape IMHO. But if coaching starts to show holes with the team struggling around TT and TT not improving at all well then another year of no meaningful football by Novembers end Our roster is good enough to have great solid coaching tilt it to a playoff team. Edited March 21, 2017 by ddaryl
mjt328 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Based on their record during Doug Whaley's time as GM, the Bills are an average team. 24 wins. 24 losses. Zero playoff performances. They aren't bad. They aren't terrible. They aren't a train wreck. They are mediocre. But that is also far from a "heck of a job" and insulting to even compare to the teams of the 90s, which has already put 7 guys in the Hall of Fame (5 players, 1 coach, 1 GM). I try to look at things fair and balanced, and it's hard to blame Whaley for everything. In my opinion, Nix had too much control in 2013 to put the weight of EJ Manuel on his successor. I also think that Whaley gets some slack because of the constant changes in coaching staff and system, which he had little to no control over (Pettine, Marrone, Ryan). But at the same time, it's about time that Whaley steps up his game in the draft room. We aren't getting enough production out of his picks. Period. Look back at his last 3 drafts. You can blame injury. You can blame scheme change. You can say its too early to judge some of those players. But besides Sammy Watkins and Ronald Darby, none of his 20 draft picks are making any kind of significant impact and helping us win. If you aren't killing it in the draft, your team is going nowhere. Signing one free agent veteran means letting another free agent veteran walk. It's a vicious cycle.
papazoid Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) haven't seen 1 GM ranking that has whaley higher than 17th best already posted links to 17th, 20th & 24th rankings whaley is Mediocre at best Edited March 21, 2017 by papazoid
Buffalo Ballin Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Another bad post from this poster. And another thread started to knock TT. What a surprise. Sure there were some on the BBMB. Had to be with some of the ridiculous posting. Why do you care so passionately about Tyrod? I mean, if he played anything like Cam Newton or Matt Ryan, then I would back Tyrod, too. But Tyrod doesn't play as great as either of those dudes. Get ready, Whaley will draft a QB this year at number 10.
Bill_with_it Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 If you put a top 10 QB behind center this a a playoff team and contender. Whaley has whiffed on QB im denying it. This is not a pro Whaley thread. We have great running backs, good WRs (when heathly), good offensive line, great defensive at times...it means nothing without QB that's can close out games. Give credit where credit is due and when it's not. Bottom line Whaley is gone if QB position does not improve dramatically. We have a top ten scoring offense. What we dont have is a top ten defense wrt to limiting points. It isnt very hard score more points than your opponent.
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Certainly. Would just like to see a coach get to really install their systems, and develop their preferred players for once. I know some teams/coaches turn things around in one year, but I'm not sure if that's the norm or not. Seems like one would need a bit of time. from what I recall, not many make a quick turnaround and if they do, fall back in season 2, kind of like Miami once, didn't they go from worst to first then fall again just like the 2015 JETS last season when they got 10 wins.
GunnerBill Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 There's numerous examples of the Bills patching holes in the draft. 2016 - woah boy. Shaq, Ragland, Washington all need picks. Shaq was also BPA. Ragland was a pure need pick and Washington was someone John Blake and Rob Ryan banged the table for.
Buffalo86 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Whaley is probably the best GM we've had since Donahoe (sorry Marv, Russ, & Nix), but below average when compared to current NFL GMs.
row_33 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 You're going to let these guys get to you? Not important enough for me to worry about. I'm just here for kicks and giggles, still awaiting the day when (like the Kelly Era) i can wake up on Sunday and KNOW the Bills were going to win at home today with a 95% certainty it would be a curb stomping of the visitors, especially for the playoffs... and to encourage people to unclench and be amazed how long that stick is that falls out...
filthymcnasty08 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 The Hindenburg had it's warts but, overall, a darn sturdy vessel.
folz Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) Whaleys issue is he worked under Nix then when he became his own GM the Pegulas over rode him on HC with Rex and he ended up getting players Rex needed and or wanted to make his scheme work. With a new HC a new Scheme you have ot let a few players walk like Gilmore who just would not return $14 mil in value IMO At this point The only real concern is QB, but thats a position that much of the league struggles with, and its the position that will either make or break Whaley in the short term from here. Bottom line it will come down to Coaching and QB play. Did we hire the right coach this time... Will TT improve just a little bit more while coaching improves the rest of the team around him. If so we will be in fine shape IMHO. But if coaching starts to show holes with the team struggling around TT and TT not improving at all well then another year of no meaningful football by Novembers end Our roster is good enough to have great solid coaching tilt it to a playoff team. Great post ddaryl! Yes, most of the Whaley detractors are looking at his tenure in a vacuum. You cannot ignore the circumstances surrounding him and the organization when evaluating the job he has done. Most GMs come into a somewhat stable organization with full authority and can hand pick a coach who shares their vision on how they want to build the team. So, let's look at Whaley's circumstances. First, Whaley inherited the job and a coach (Marrone was Nix and Brandon's pick). The team's owner was dying basically leaving Brandon in charge. Also, money was probably tight due to how Ralph had handled the team and the pending sale of the team. It was not a stable situation and being that Whaley was promoted rather than brought in from outside, he may not have had full control. Ralph dies, new owners come in. New philosophy, new working relationship, and basically Whaley is on a prove it (i.e., not secure) job standing. Marrone quits. Russ and Pegulas choose Rex. New coach, new schemes, new philosophy...but again saddled with a coach he didn't choose. The coach and GM have to work together. They aren't all Whaley solo moves, he is trying to give the coach what he needs. If Rex isn't the coach would Whaley have brought in IK or Percy or Tyrod (though folks are mixed on whether that was good or bad) or players like that? And scheme changes mean letting some guys go and bringing in different types of players. Rex was obviously burnt out and does not do a good job. Fired, new coach, new scheme, etc. Of course, we can judge Whaley on the moves that the team has made and the talent level on the roster, but you cannot do so without also thinking about why he made certain moves at certain times. It seems that just this offseason Whaley truly became a senior GM. He finally seems to have a full GM's authority, the confidence of his owners, and he finally got to pick his own coach. And he seems to be attacking this offseason pretty hard. The franchise is finally stable. The team can actually attract some free agents now (with Shady, the rep of the new coach, and the Pegulas deep pockets). I think we should reserve judgement of Whaley for at least one more season to see how he does as his own man finally. Is he perfect or going to be perfect? Of course not, no GM is. And yes, he has made some bad moves. But I do agree that this team has more talent now than at any time since John Butler left and I really like how this offseason is shaping up. P.S. I didn't read the links of the GM rankings, but I guarantee a lot of that has to do with the Bills record and lack of playoffs. If the Bills were to have a winning season and make the playoffs next year (which I know many think they won't) I bet he would move up those rankings, though the moves he made, that are supposedly how they get the ranking, would still be the same. The good moves look better when you are winning and the bad moves aren't as glaring. Edited March 21, 2017 by folz
Mr. WEO Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Jesus. I second this. How does this still happen?
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