Bangarang Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Mediocre GM who has built a mediocre team that has had mediocre results.
Bill from NYC Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 On paper these last few years, we may have had the most talent on this roster since the Super Bowl teams. Unfortunately we don't have number 12 behind center. It always comes down to QB. I would draft one this year in first 3 rounds just to have another option if Tyrod doesn't finally step up. However you are only as good as your QB in this league and if things continue not to workout at that position. Whaley has to go. Yeah, he accomplished a lot by trading away our draft picks. Aren't you glad that we don't have a full compliment once again?
FireChan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 This is just a lazy rehashing of Tim Graham's article that conveniently cherry picked and left out information that makes his argument less believable. Here is the reality of our situation: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/04/how_each_nfl_team_has_-_or_has.html According to this OBJECTIVE article, league average amount of drafted players STARTING for their respective team is 11. Bills are at, wait for it, everyone take a deep breathe, please prepare yourself FireChan for what is about to change your world, 11. There are teams higher that are LOUSY, and teams lower that are great. YOU BUILD BY GETTING TALENT. NOT rocket science. When you draft good players, you can't keep them all. It's just like comp picks.
Elite Poster Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) One way or another, this board needs to find some reason other than not having a franchise QB to attribute to our woes. News flash, we play New England twice a year, and don't have a QB. When you draft good players, you can't keep them all. It's just like comp picks. So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me lol??? I made a huge post about how the last few pats drafts have been pretty lackluster. It's not a mystery what gets wins in the NFL. Edited March 21, 2017 by Elite Poster
papazoid Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 #1 - whaley is mediocre #2 - a poll from TBD could do a better job #3 - retaining TT was the smart short term move. my guess is that it was not what whaley wanted. # 4 - i still say the bills are trying to fill all their needs in FA to select the QB of the future at #10.
FireChan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 One way or another, this board needs to find some reason other than not having a franchise QB to attribute to our woes. News flash, we play New England twice a year, and don't have a QB. So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me lol??? I made a huge post about how the last few pats drafts have been pretty lackluster. It's not a mystery what gets wins in the NFL. When you draft good players, you can't keep them all. That hasn't been the Bills problem. They have drafted ****ty players that they can't wait to can.
BillsFan130 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Seriously? Where is the depth? The young potential on the team? The linebackers? The secondary? The wide receievers? He has done a bad job outside of a few good moves
Elite Poster Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 (edited) #1 - whaley is mediocre #2 - a poll from TBD could do a better job #3 - retaining TT was the smart short term move. my guess is that it was not what whaley wanted. # 4 - i still say the bills are trying to fill all their needs in FA to select the QB of the future at #10. Whaley is above average. You don't follow enough of the rest of the league to really understand the piss poor moves some GMs make. The fact that the saints, ravens, colts, Bengals, and chargers can't field a winner is an absolute mockery. The cowboys got extremely lucky last year or they would've made this glorious list as well. Edited March 21, 2017 by Elite Poster
Roundybout Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Exactly. Patching holes on a sinking ship... So what do we do, let it sink?
FireChan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 So what do we do, let it sink? No. You draft for long-term gain over short-term. You stick to your board and build a team with a consistent vision. Instead of taking crappy "day one contributors."
Elite Poster Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 When you draft good players, you can't keep them all. That hasn't been the Bills problem. They have drafted ****ty players that they can't wait to can. A majority of Whaley's picks have been within the last two years, I'm sure you're intelligent enough to know that drawing conclusions on the entire 2016 draft class on March 21st, 2017 isn't exactly rational. Sammy, Darby, Miller, McCoy (draft asset). Four starters in two drafts. Essentially league average, ONCE AGAIN... What everyone is trying to say here, is Whaley hasn't gotten the Bills an established, franchise QB. You are dead on about that.
FireChan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 A majority of Whaley's picks have been within the last two years, I'm sure you're intelligent enough to know that drawing conclusions on the entire 2016 draft class on March 21st, 2017 isn't exactly rational. Sammy, Darby, Miller, McCoy (draft asset). Four starters in two drafts. Essentially league average, ONCE AGAIN... Exactly 1/2 of Whaley's pick have been within the last two years. Sammy, Darby, Miller over 4 years. McCoy was not drafted.
Roundybout Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 No. You draft for long-term gain over short-term. You stick to your board and build a team with a consistent vision. Instead of taking crappy "day one contributors." Shaq Lawson was a long term, especially with the shoulder. Cardale was also long term.
Utah John Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 I think half the teams in the league are in this middling morass of mediocrity. Too many holes every year to fill at the same time new holes appear. Drafting mistakes are difficult to overcome, and very few teams consistently nail most of their picks. We draft out of need and usually need particular positions filled in years when there isn't much talent at that position. Not every team needs DB help this year, but everyone should be drafting at least one DB because this is the mother lode year for CB and safety. This is not the year to use a pick on a QB, "just because we should always draft one". This is year is like 2013, when there wasn't much QB talent out there. We already have an expensive starter and a second year player. We need a competent veteran backup unless Cardale Jones made huge strides since the end of the season. There's your three QBs, unless you think Jones isn't going to work out and you cut him loose now. If you draft another QB in a later round, when you could be getting help for the OL, WR, or DB, what would you do with him or Jones? The Sammy draft was a disaster. I love the guy when his wheels are round, but using two firsts for the production we've had so far has killed the team's chances. The EJ pick was the right idea in the wrong year, therefore a bad move. Whaley tried to provide OT help but got two busts for high picks. He's picked lots of DBs but most can't play very well, and for 20 years we've struggled to retain the good ones we've had. In general, the Bills are much better at finding gems from other teams, than drafting good players. Is it the fault of the people evaluating college players? If it isn't that, what's the reason for the draft failures?
papazoid Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Whaley is above average. You don't follow enough of the rest of the league to really understand the piss poor moves some GMs make. The fact that the saints, ravens, colts, Bengals, and chargers can't field a winner is an absolute mockery. The cowboys got extremely lucky last year or they would've made this glorious list as well. whaley is the 20th ranked GM http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nfl-gm-general-manager-rankings-2016-belichick-elway-jerry-jones/1bsasqu0ug3cy1x3e8tr8wazou/slide/20 whaley is 17th ranked GM http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/61907/57/nfls-best-gms-2016
FireChan Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Shaq Lawson was a long term, especially with the shoulder. Cardale was also long term. Shaq Lawson was considered a "Day One starter" by our GM. Only when he re-injured his shoulder did he become a long-term potential pick. Because he physically could not contribute in the short term. Kinda like how Kujo was expected to contribute year 1 until he was horrific, then we needed to "develop" him.
jeffismagic Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 No. You draft for long-term gain over short-term. You stick to your board and build a team with a consistent vision. Instead of taking crappy "day one contributors." This and hire a football guy with a long term strategic vision. Find flaws in other team's methods and inefficiencies that allow you to get better value (Patriots). Build dominance at key positions. Hit on late round picks. Get a QB czar to help evaluate position. No more deferring to coach for anything other than input of system fit.
Riverboat Richie Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 Switch coaching staffs and flip-flop systems every two years or so and try to pick players you won't have to replace because they don't fit the system. I seriously wonder how you get 7/8 wins doing that.
RyanC883 Posted March 21, 2017 Posted March 21, 2017 On paper these last few years, we may have had the most talent on this roster since the Super Bowl teams. Unfortunately we don't have number 12 behind center. It always comes down to QB. I would draft one this year in first 3 rounds just to have another option if Tyrod doesn't finally step up. However you are only as good as your QB in this league and if things continue not to workout at that position. Whaley has to go. You are 99% correct. However, IDing a QB is VERY difficult. Look, EVERYONE missed on Brady. Personally I'd like to see Matt McGloin come in as the backup. And draft a QB perhaps, but I wouldn't reach for one. Look at the 2013 class. Zero QB's from that class starting. The only one would could is Landry Jones--a 4th round selection from the Steelers who has the benefit of learning from Big Ben....and it took him (Landry) 3 years to become serviceable.
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