Find me a versatile Corner in the draft

[cover1]

Rasul Douglas http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/rasul-douglas?id=2558168

 

 

 

Douglas ran a faster time than Worley(4.59 vs 4.64) who was a 3rd Round pick last year (#77 overall) and started 11 games last year for Carolina Panthers (see scheme fit). So if we wait on CB we could likely get this kid with our 3rd Rounder this year (#75 overall).

THATS my guy hahahaha PERFECT FIT. Size, disruptive at the LOS, bail tech corner, played in very similar coverage scheme to Mcdermotts, from the same school as Worley. Needs to improve play strength and inside breaking routes.

Edited March 22, 2017 by cover1

[Luxy312]

Marshon Lattimore at #10 would be ideal, although I don't see him falling that far. I don't think there's any other corner worthy of the #10 pick in the first round and would prefer that they move down. In terms of other options, I would love to see Kevin King in round 2. He's a big physical guy that can play both corner and safety. Given the Bills problems for many years with covering tight ends, I think he would be a nice fit. Don't look past Gareon Conley either. He's Lattimore's counterpart at Ohio State and is often overlooked because of him.

[BillsFan17]

Sidney Jones hurt as his pro day and now Moreau at his pro day.

 

This deep class just lost two very good players to injury for a stupid shirts workout.

[cover1]

Marshon Lattimore at #10 would be ideal, although I don't see him falling that far. I don't think there's any other corner worthy of the #10 pick in the first round and would prefer that they move down. In terms of other options, I would love to see Kevin King in round 2. He's a big physical guy that can play both corner and safety. Given the Bills problems for many years with covering tight ends, I think he would be a nice fit. Don't look past Gareon Conley either. He's Lattimore's counterpart at Ohio State and is often overlooked because of him.

Lattimore is legit, Conley is another mirror/man cover corner imo. Great athleticism, good ball skills but has trouble at the top of the routes vs bigger WRs.

Sidney Jones hurt as his pro day and now Moreau at his pro day.

 

This deep class just lost two very good players to injury for a stupid shirts workout.

 

 

Supposedly only a strained pec.

[BuffaloBud420]

There are none.

[Antonio]

He referred to Kevon Seymour as his mentor so there is that too

 

Interesting, well this can be one of those times where the student beats the teacher.

 

I think Seymour will be a very good pick up, he did look lost in a couple plays last year, but he was a rookie, I expect he compets for a starting rol this year.

[teef]

There are none.

not one?

[BuffaloBud420]

not one?

Nope. Imo. They all have concerning flaws in their game. There is no Haden or even Gilmore type player in this draft. Draft for depth at CB. You're not going to do better than Seymour or Darby day 1. They all need quite a bit of development

[yungmack]

By mirror corner I mean he is good in tight man coverage, not necessarily press coverage that's where I don't like him. He fails to disrupt WRs at the LOS with leverage and or his hands. He can swing his hips open with the best of them. I have him graded as an 86 overall so a 1st-early second round pick and great value but I don't think he fits the McDermott type cornerback. With his size and athleticism he should be handling WRs at the line of scrimmage, you would like to see more tenacity and competitive toughness at the LOS knowing that he has the closing speed. He likes to 'catch' WRs not press them at the LOS. His strikes are late, and when he does attempt to strike the placement is bad. That very same USC game where he got an INT, he was beaten deep for a TD by Ju ju a savy 4.54 guy https://streamable.com/9ees7and another he was beaten inside on a slant for the TD.

 

I counted 6 plays zone defensive passing plays in that USC game, 1 INT, 2 plays of which he squatted and took away the RB who was the third option after Darnold scanned all the away across the field and the rest he didn't make a difference.

 

What do I like about him? Fluidity, tackling in run support and ball skills. Not saying Mcdermott wouldnt love him but based on Mcd's history of drafting CBs, the type of CBs he has drafted and traits he looks for I don't see Moreau fitting that paradigm. But if we could land him in the second round I am all for it. The earliest Mcd took a corner was last year, in the second round (Bradberry) and they took Worley and Sanchez later. He doesn't usually take CBs early. Maybe Moreau fits what he wants to do in Buffalo, I just would like to see more tenacity out of Moreau.

 

Check out two of the CBs he drafted last year vs Moreau..Moreau has shorter arms. The arm length is a big deal in zone defenses especially cover 3, when offenses want to attack cover 3 its typically w verticals and with long DBs the QB has to have really good arc and trajectory over the top of these long corners. Long DBs are able to close windows.. https://streamable.com/4lguj

Very good analysis which accords with my "eyeball" evaluation. And I have watched him his whole UCLA career. I thought he might be there in the 3rd round but now Mayock has moved him to #5 on his most recent evaluation.

[thebandit27]

Nope. Imo. They all have concerning flaws in their game. There is no Haden or even Gilmore type player in this draft. Draft for depth at CB. You're not going to do better than Seymour or Darby day 1. They all need quite a bit of development

 

Wait, you're telling me that you don't think that this crop of corners--billed as the best corner class in years--doesn't have anyone that will be better than a 6th round pick that never started in college and played only 200 snaps as a rookie?

[BuffAlone]

 

Moreau is the perfect fit for this defense, and as a height/speed guy, is exactly what Whaley looks for in his prospects.

 

If he's on the board in round 2, I'll be shocked if he's not the pick.

He's definitely worthy of a second. The more I watch him,the more I like him. And you're right,he's got the size/speed you can't coach,but also the sense to be coachable. He'd be a good fit

[BuffaloBud420]

 

Wait, you're telling me that you don't think that this crop of corners--billed as the best corner class in years--doesn't have anyone that will be better than a 6th round pick that never started in college and played only 200 snaps as a rookie?

Not true. It's the best DB class. Mainly cause of safety and yes Seymour day 1 is our best option.

[P51]

By mirror corner I mean he is good in tight man coverage, not necessarily press coverage that's where I don't like him. He fails to disrupt WRs at the LOS with leverage and or his hands. He can swing his hips open with the best of them. I have him graded as an 86 overall so a 1st-early second round pick and great value but I don't think he fits the McDermott type cornerback. With his size and athleticism he should be handling WRs at the line of scrimmage, you would like to see more tenacity and competitive toughness at the LOS knowing that he has the closing speed. He likes to 'catch' WRs not press them at the LOS. His strikes are late, and when he does attempt to strike the placement is bad. That very same USC game where he got an INT, he was beaten deep for a TD by Ju ju a savy 4.54 guy https://streamable.com/9ees7and another he was beaten inside on a slant for the TD.

 

I counted 6 plays zone defensive passing plays in that USC game, 1 INT, 2 plays of which he squatted and took away the RB who was the third option after Darnold scanned all the away across the field and the rest he didn't make a difference.

 

What do I like about him? Fluidity, tackling in run support and ball skills. Not saying Mcdermott wouldnt love him but based on Mcd's history of drafting CBs, the type of CBs he has drafted and traits he looks for I don't see Moreau fitting that paradigm. But if we could land him in the second round I am all for it. The earliest Mcd took a corner was last year, in the second round (Bradberry) and they took Worley and Sanchez later. He doesn't usually take CBs early. Maybe Moreau fits what he wants to do in Buffalo, I just would like to see more tenacity out of Moreau.

 

Check out two of the CBs he drafted last year vs Moreau..Moreau has shorter arms. The arm length is a big deal in zone defenses especially cover 3, when offenses want to attack cover 3 its typically w verticals and with long DBs the QB has to have really good arc and trajectory over the top of these long corners. Long DBs are able to close windows.. https://streamable.com/4lguj

 

I hadnt noticed how reactionary he is in press until you said that and I focused on it, fair enough. You are certainly right at the LOS, he is timid and passive, his hand placement is horrible, appears to me he is not aggressive and does not initiate the contact, but rather is hesitant and waits for the WR to make his move when he is in press. Ill have to go back and look at my notes from the season and see if I noted anything like that in the games I watched live. This hinders his ability in coverage for sure. That TD to JUJU, he needs to jam immediately, not wait for JUJU to make his move, he is reacting instead of initiating and throws off his timing, he ends up in good position via. his closing speed, but doesnt turn his head to play the ball at all, which was an issue I recall in all the games of his I watched and certainly on that play. On the slant TD, he gets "rubbed" by the slot receiver on the slant/flat pick play, really hard to pin that on him with J. Brown not getting depth in his drop as he is held up by the official and does not provide the support that it looks like he was designed to give. Moreau still almost makes the play and doesnt try to jam the WR, allowing for his natural athleticism to shine IMO. Looking at this heads up man certainly seems to be his strong suit or off man, not bump n' run. Looks to me like a big problem is that in bump n' run he does not keep his feet under his shoulders on his shuffle steps and loses his balance and over extends his feet and hands as a result, this is a problem I have had coaching before and is hard to coach out of players.

 

Are you going off the draft breakdown for the 6 zone plays? Regardless, he made plays in zone and handled his responsibility, which is what my memory (granted it iffy at times) of him is in zone, in general and I think he can handles zones given what I have seen of him. Moreau's arm length does not match up vs. last years draft picks and those type of C3 zone corners, he's w/in a 5/8th of a inch of Sherman, but it is a game of inches.... C3's certainly are about forcing perfect passes and I get the geometry of it, certainly a good point and one I hadnt considered with him. I think you've sold me on him not fitting as well as I thought initially although I dont think he's a square peg in a round hole completely, Im a big R. Douglas fan and thought he'd be a second round fit for Buffalo, now Im thinking it even more so. I think it would fit McD's teams drafting of receivers after the first round history.

 

I appreciate the response

[cover1]

 

I hadnt noticed how reactionary he is in press until you said that and I focused on it, fair enough. You are certainly right at the LOS, he is timid and passive, his hand placement is horrible, appears to me he is not aggressive and does not initiate the contact, but rather is hesitant and waits for the WR to make his move when he is in press. Ill have to go back and look at my notes from the season and see if I noted anything like that in the games I watched live. This hinders his ability in coverage for sure. That TD to JUJU, he needs to jam immediately, not wait for JUJU to make his move, he is reacting instead of initiating and throws off his timing, he ends up in good position via. his closing speed, but doesnt turn his head to play the ball at all, which was an issue I recall in all the games of his I watched and certainly on that play. On the slant TD, he gets "rubbed" by the slot receiver on the slant/flat pick play, really hard to pin that on him with J. Brown not getting depth in his drop as he is held up by the official and does not provide the support that it looks like he was designed to give. Moreau still almost makes the play and doesnt try to jam the WR, allowing for his natural athleticism to shine IMO. Looking at this heads up man certainly seems to be his strong suit or off man, not bump n' run. Looks to me like a big problem is that in bump n' run he does not keep his feet under his shoulders on his shuffle steps and loses his balance and over extends his feet and hands as a result, this is a problem I have had coaching before and is hard to coach out of players.

 

Are you going off the draft breakdown for the 6 zone plays? Regardless, he made plays in zone and handled his responsibility, which is what my memory (granted it iffy at times) of him is in zone, in general and I think he can handles zones given what I have seen of him. Moreau's arm length does not match up vs. last years draft picks and those type of C3 zone corners, he's w/in a 5/8th of a inch of Sherman, but it is a game of inches.... C3's certainly are about forcing perfect passes and I get the geometry of it, certainly a good point and one I hadnt considered with him. I think you've sold me on him not fitting as well as I thought initially although I dont think he's a square peg in a round hole completely, Im a big R. Douglas fan and thought he'd be a second round fit for Buffalo, now Im thinking it even more so. I think it would fit McD's teams drafting of receivers after the first round history.

 

I appreciate the response

Great convo, and I am glad that you mentioned him again bc I still had one game left to break down. So I went back and some of his grades changed, initially I had him an 82 but a few tweaks and new things I saw on film brought his grade up. As far as what game I used yes they were from DB but those are all of his plays that he was in. When will we get all 22 for college!?!? So when are you going to join our team at Cover 1? I could use some help!

[thebandit27]

He's definitely worthy of a second. The more I watch him,the more I like him. And you're right,he's got the size/speed you can't coach,but also the sense to be coachable. He'd be a good fit

 

Agreed

 

Not true. It's the best DB class. Mainly cause of safety and yes Seymour day 1 is our best option.

 

No.

 

It's the best corner class in a very long time. There are guys like Moreau, Tankersly, Q. Wilson, Tabor, King, and Jackson that will be 2nd rounders this year, and could easily be 1st rounders in any of the previous 3 drafts. 3rd round guys like Douglas, Howard Wilson, and Witherspoon will compete for starting jobs as rookies. That's without even discussing likely 1st rounders Lattimore, White, Humphrey, Awuzie, and Conley (Sidney Jones was a top-15 lock before his injury too).

 

You could see as many as 15 corners go in the top 64 picks.

 

Meanwhile, we're talking about 3-4 first round safeties (Hooker/Adams/Baker/Peppers) and another 3-5 that will go top 64 (Melifonwu, M. Williams, Maye, J. Jones, Evans)

Edited March 22, 2017 by thebandit27

[cover1]

 

Agreed

 

 

No.

 

It's the best corner class in a very long time. There are guys like Moreau, Tankersly, Q. Wilson, Tabor, King, and Jackson that will be 2nd rounders this year, and could easily be 1st rounders in any of the previous 3 drafts. 3rd round guys like Douglas, Howard Wilson, and Witherspoon will compete for starting jobs as rookies.

 

You could see as many as 15 corners go in the top 64 picks.

 

Meanwhile, we're talking about 3-4 first round safeties (Hooker/Adams/Baker/Peppers) and another 3-5 that will go top 64 (Melifonwu, M. Williams, Maye, J. Jones, Evans)

Seriously this DB class is disgusting and we should pluck atleast two out of it. Get your offensive players early and starting DBs from there on out.

[BuffaloBud420]

 

Agreed

 

 

No.

 

It's the best corner class in a very long time. There are guys like Moreau, Tankersly, Q. Wilson, Tabor, King, and Jackson that will be 2nd rounders this year, and could easily be 1st rounders in any of the previous 3 drafts. 3rd round guys like Douglas, Howard Wilson, and Witherspoon will compete for starting jobs as rookies. That's without even discussing likely 1st rounders Lattimore, White, Humphrey, Awuzie, and Conley (Sidney Jones was a top-15 lock before his injury too).

 

You could see as many as 15 corners go in the top 64 picks.

 

Meanwhile, we're talking about 3-4 first round safeties (Hooker/Adams/Baker/Peppers) and another 3-5 that will go top 64 (Melifonwu, M. Williams, Maye, J. Jones, Evans)

Nope. No great corners. Deep class but no Haden, Ramsey type guys.

[thebandit27]

Seriously this DB class is disgusting and we should pluck atleast two out of it. Get your offensive players early and starting DBs from there on out.

 

Agreed--get yourself a QB in round 1 (assuming you've identified a guy that you believe in), grab a WR in round 2, then corners and coverage 'backers.

 

I've half-joked on here for weeks that I could build a big nickel back-7 from rounds 3-7 of this draft alone...just give me Howard Wilson, Jalen Myrick, Jayon Brown, and Charmeachealle Moore and we're in business.

Nope. No great corners. Deep class but no Haden, Ramsey type guys.

 

Do you have any reasoning to back that up? Because there are a lot of analysts that disagree with you.

[BuffaloBud420]

 

Agreed--get yourself a QB in round 1 (assuming you've identified a guy that you believe in), grab a WR in round 2, then corners and coverage 'backers.

 

I've half-joked on here for weeks that I could build a big nickel back-7 from rounds 3-7 of this draft alone...just give me Howard Wilson, Jalen Myrick, Jayon Brown, and Charmeachealle Moore and we're in business.

 

 

Do you have any reasoning to back that up? Because there are a lot of analysts that disagree with you.

I watch the tape and analysts all have different guys as the best. That tells you there is no standout.

[thebandit27]

I watch the tape and analysts all have different guys as the best. That tells you there is no standout.

 

And what do you see when you look at these guys?

 

I ask because we've got 3-4 guys in this thread alone that can actually talk shop--tell me your evaluations.

 

Oh, and forget about who's everyone's favorite corner. Show me a single analyst that hasn't said that this corner class is a cut above any in a long time.

 

I can easily pull tweets like this:

 

Daniel Jeremiah‏Verified account @MoveTheSticks

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This draft has the deepest/most talented group of CBs I've seen in several years.

And quotes like this:

 

"I think one of the messages in this year's draft at edge, corner and safety is there is great quality at the top, but there is depth throughout."

 

https://nflcommunications.com/PublishingImages/Pages/NFL-Network-Analyst-Mike-Mayock-2017-NFL-Scouting-Combine-Conference-Call----Transcript-and-Audio/Mike%20Mayock%202017%20NFL%20Scouting%20Combine%20Transcript.pdf