FireChan Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 As critical historically as you are of people who spew opinion as fact, I'm surprised you've been doing it so much lately. Again, your educated guess is roughtly as good as my or Shaw's educated guess... feel free to keep trying to convince yourself that stating opinions as fact will somehow validate your argument, though Yes... I'm sure that 2nd rounder was worth what they're paying Brock Osweiler... Are you guys serious with this? Sure, it played a role, but not even remotely close to whatever kind of role you're insinuating... Second rounder and the cap floor. That's exactly why they made the trade. They didn't even give the dude a parking space.
Bangarang Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 Yes... I'm sure that 2nd rounder was worth what they're paying Brock Osweiler... Are you guys serious with this? Sure, it played a role, but not even remotely close to whatever kind of role you're insinuating... The Browns also did it to get to help get to the salary cap floor.
Shaw66 Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 So how did all these same agents agree to deals before the legal tampering period was instituted? Clearly they were all willing to work behind the scenes and defy the NFL's tampering rule to construct the contracts that we would so often see signed just after FA opened. Sure Taylor was under contract so that is different, but to imply that agents wouldn't break any rules and negotiate behind the scenes is very misleading. It was being done so frequently and made so obvious that the league had to create a new "legal tampering" window. What are you missing? The league mad it very obvious what kind of early discussions are permissible and what kind are not, and they began passing out penalties for violators. Yes, BEFORE the new rule people cheated. Not any more.
jeffismagic Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 There will always be people who want to believe in the QB. JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, and now Tyrod Taylor.
FireChan Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 What are you missing? The league mad it very obvious what kind of early discussions are permissible and what kind are not, and they began passing out penalties for violators. Yes, BEFORE the new rule people cheated. Not any more. Oh, before they didn't play by the rules. Now they do. Did you clue the Pats in on this development?
Bangarang Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 What are you missing? The league mad it very obvious what kind of early discussions are permissible and what kind are not, and they began passing out penalties for violators. Yes, BEFORE the new rule people cheated. Not any more. Yikes
HappyDays Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 Oh, before they didn't play by the rules. Now they do. Did you clue the Pats in on this development? You're basing your tampering narrative on nothing. There is no evidence at all. There isn't even a report from an insider source claiming this is what happened. It's just you assuming that because Tyrod agreed to a lower guaranteed salary that it MUST also be true that his agent was tampering. That doesn't make sense. You're creating dots to connect. And guess what - it is still true that Tyrod wins and the Bills lose the restructure if he improves this year. I'm sure Tyrod knew as well as anyone his best chance to succeed is to come back to the Bills next year. It's entirely possible - without any tampering at all - that they merely thought through their options and decided the Bills made the most sense, and renegotiating after 2017 would make sense. You can go on believing your narrative but that's all it is, a belief.
FireChan Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) You're basing your tampering narrative on nothing. There is no evidence at all. There isn't even a report from an insider source claiming this is what happened. It's just you assuming that because Tyrod agreed to a lower guaranteed salary that it MUST also be true that his agent was tampering. That doesn't make sense. You're creating dots to connect. And guess what - it is still true that Tyrod wins and the Bills lose the restructure if he improves this year. I'm sure Tyrod knew as well as anyone his best chance to succeed is to come back to the Bills next year. It's entirely possible - without any tampering at all - that they merely thought through their options and decided the Bills made the most sense, and renegotiating after 2017 would make sense. You can go on believing your narrative but that's all it is, a belief. What's my narrative? The one you agree with? Edited April 11, 2017 by FireChan
section122 Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) What's my narrative? The one you agree with? Your narrative: Tyrod sucks Everyone in the league knows Tyrod sucks Tyrod knows everyone in the league knows he sucks because his Agent broke the rules to find out what kind of contract he could get Teams tamper all the time even with players who aren't set to become UFA Tyrod came crawling back to the Bills for a pay cut because teams told him he wouldn't get any offers near what the Bills were giving him Edited April 11, 2017 by section122
FireChan Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 Your narrative: Tyrod sucks Everyone in the league knows Tyrod sucks Tyrod knows everyone in the league knows he sucks because his Agent broke the rules to find out what kind of contract he could get Teams tamper all the time even with players who aren't set to become UFA Tyrod came crawling back to the Bills for a pay cut because teams told him he wouldn't get any offers near what the Bills were giving him You're close. Man. No. There are 4 other teams he had a similar chance to be the starter. No. There are 4 other teams he had a similar chance to be the starter. Here's what I think happened. The Bills said "we want you to be our guy, but not under your option," TT's camp said "let's talk," they haggled with the option deadline looming. The Bills were inquiring about Romo and Glennon, showing TT they were seriously considering moving on, and his camp decided that restructuring to give up $10M was less or at least comparable to what he'd get on the open market. If TT and his camp were confident (and I mean confident like the guys in this topic) that they would make original option money on the open market, he would have NEVER given up $10M in guarantees and a 6 year deal. EVER. Remember, it's not just that TT gave up $10M. He would've gotten paid until 2021. No one in the NFL says, "No thanks" to a 5 year deal worth $100M.
Figster Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 There will always be people who want to believe in the QB. JP Losman, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel, and now Tyrod Taylor. The way I see it when the Buffalo Bills decide on the QB they want to lead the football team I can play my small part by standing behind the decision. Its called being a fan of the team.
Royale with Cheese Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 What are you missing? The league mad it very obvious what kind of early discussions are permissible and what kind are not, and they began passing out penalties for violators. Yes, BEFORE the new rule people cheated. Not any more. Shaw...you seriously don't believe this do you?
section122 Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) You're close. I'm paying attention I have to disagree with your assertion that other teams discussed numbers with him. Maybe a "interested/not interested" but I can't see teams sticking out their necks and discussing actual numbers. Going by your idea that he sucks why would a team risk draft picks for TT by discussing contract details? If it is as general as interested/not interested perhaps TT liked the idea of continuing to grow on a team he is used to? In a community he knows (maybe even likes) with an OC that he knows? Maybe the teams didn't have the offensive talent the Bills do? Maybe he actually feels those things give him the best chance to be successful which he needs to be since he bet on himself? Their are a lot of other possibilities besides he sucks and nobody was going to pay him. He restructured and I'm happy about that. It freed up more money for the team, made it easier to move on, and gave TT a chance to cash in again. Speculating on the why is a pointless exercise but not nearly as pointless as pretending that their is only one reason and you know what it is. The way I see it when the Buffalo Bills decide on the QB they want to lead the football team I can play my small part by standing behind the decision. Its called being a fan of the team. Seriously. I get if you don't like the guy. I don't get bashing or belittling others because they want to see someone and in turn the team do well. It does nothing but help the Bills if the light comes on for TT or whomever lines up behind center. Edited April 11, 2017 by section122
FireChan Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 I'm paying attention I have to disagree with your assertion that other teams discussed numbers with him. Maybe a "interested/not interested" but I can't see teams sticking out their necks and discussing actual numbers. Going by your idea that he sucks why would a team risk draft picks for TT by discussing contract details? If it is as general as interested/not interested perhaps TT liked the idea of continuing to grow on a team he is used to? In a community he knows (maybe even likes) with an OC that he knows? Maybe the teams didn't have the offensive talent the Bills do? Maybe he actually feels those things give him the best chance to be successful which he needs to be since he bet on himself? Their are a lot of other possibilities besides he sucks and nobody was going to pay him. He restructured and I'm happy about that. It freed up more money for the team, made it easier to move on, and gave TT a chance to cash in again. Speculating on the why is a pointless exercise but not nearly as pointless as pretending that their is only one reason and you know what it is. I mean, you could do worse at $10M a year. They could ball park stuff. To definitively say they had no idea what teams might offer in terms of price is crazy.
CommonCents Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 So TT gave up money to stay in Buffalo without knowing his approximate value? Do you really believe this? I mean the Wonderlic score is low but I'm sure he is paying his agent handsomely to handle this exact situation. Why pay an agent so much if he is blindly going to the table to rework his deal? Anyone that thinks everything is black and white in the NFL is living on planet Delusia. Most of these agents represent multiple players on multiple teams, too bad we aren't privy to those discussions but I'm sure they have back channels and plenty of insight that we don't. Heck, folks on this board almost nail some FA contract numbers and now we are to believe Taylor didn't know how his season played out and how teams viewed him? Bahhhh. Everyone cheers for the Bills, it's not a matter of being a fan. If we all agreed with every move they made this board would look like Gillette stadium on a Sunday afternoon. You want that?? We good, yeah man we so good, here comes number 6!!!! OMG can you believe it Brady only has 5 fingers on one hand. Two hands man!! Blah blah
transplantbillsfan Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 So perhaps you shouldn't lump me into that same group since that wasn't at all what I was doing. That'd be great. Thanks I apologize, it was more part of the broader discussion and you're right, I shouldn't have lumped you in with other posters. My bad Aren't you someone who criticizes the media for the stuff they report? Now you're using those reports because it fits your agenda? You have a hard time accepting that Tyrod wasn't the hot commodity you thought he would be. Yes, I'm highly critical of the media, obviously. But the reason I asked to be directed to any "reports" is because with that it at least establishes, to some degree, a journalist/insider putting his neck on the line by saying directly that he has a "source" who told him something. Firechan directed me to an article essentially with Rodak saying "Bills expected to..." which could be anything and doesn't imply any sources inside OBD at all. As much as I loathe Rodak, if he had a report where he claimed to have sources who told him something, I would be less dismissive. So this is a report but other reports are just speculation? What makes this not speculation? In favor of Tyrod = report Not in favor of Tyrod = speculation Find where I completely dismissed anything labeled as a "report." Have you noticed that journalists and "insiders" use the word "report" sparingly relative to everything else they write? There's a reason. There were "4" teams willing to pay TT, as per transplant. It wasn't just Cleveland. If TT snaps his leg by some fat DT and has lingering damage, he comes out the loser of this restructure and probably his career. Which is why players who haven't already made their money generally don't leave $10M on the table. 3 teams... Way to almost pay attention though You and transplant are apparently in your own little worlds As is everyone else on this message board...
Foxx Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) What are you missing? The league mad it very obvious what kind of early discussions are permissible and what kind are not, and they began passing out penalties for violators. Yes, BEFORE the new rule people cheated. Not any more.i know you didn't just crawl out from under a rock. so there has to be another explanation for the naivete here. Edited April 11, 2017 by Foxx
Bill_with_it Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 Sure. Lets agree he was under contract. Lets also agree that if he didn't accept less $ he would be a FA. I believe it to be true that w/o a pay cut he was not going be a Bill under the 2015/2016 contract extension terms. I cant agree with what you are speculating. Noone can possibly know that except for Tyrod, his agent, and the Buffalo Bills organization.
Shaw66 Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 Shaw...you seriously don't believe this do you? Of course I do. You read what KC got fined for tampering with Maclin. Do you think all the other teams and agents are talking? Don't you think KC would be raising holy hell? Jets got fined just for the owner saying he'd like to have Revis come back. $100,000 for nothing more than that. Most people in the civilized world play by the rules most of the time. The overwhelming majority, the overwhelming amount of the time. That's true if there are penalties and they are enforced. Are there cases here and there where someone says something to someone and someone says something back? Probably. But not many. If you're a GM and you know that the Chiefs got fined in six figures AND lost two draft picks for talking to Maclin, are you really going to talk to Taylor?. In that case Maclin was going to become a free agent, but they talked before the so-called tampering period began. In this case, Taylor had NO RIGHT to be a free agent, so it would have been tampering with a player under contract. Moreover, I believe every GM was pretty sure the Bills would keep Taylor, because they know as well as most people that you don't cut a decent starting QB when you have NO ONE even remotely able to play as well as Taylor. So why would your risk draft picks and fines to talk to a player who most likely was NOT going to become a free agent anyway? It makes no sense that any GM would be talking to Taylor's agent under those circumstances. Remember, the Maclin case was finally decided only a year ago. Two draft picks for talking to someone early. The penalty for talking to someone who isn't even scheduled to become a free agent has to be worse.
HappyDays Posted April 11, 2017 Posted April 11, 2017 To add on to what Shaw said, here is what the NFL said about the Maclin punishment when it first came out: https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/NFL-Announces-Penalties-for-Violation-of-Anti-Tampering-Policy.aspx They say the Chiefs cooperated fully and had no prior offenses, but they still took away the 3rd and 6th rounder and levied fines against everyone involved. So imagine the penalty for talking to Tyrod while still under contract, not even an impending free agent, with no definite plans for him to be gone. How would the Bills feel if they found out that had happened? That would absolutely destroy any standing they had in negotiations. You guys really think this stuff just happens all the time and teams don't care? Who's being naive here?
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